Question regarding loaded chamber indicator law

[Flogger23m]

I have a question regarding the loaded chamber indicator law. As I understand it, handguns which do not have an LCI are not allowed to be sold in CA unless they were approved prior to a certain date. All new versions of these pistols can't be sold unless the appropriate changes are made; LCI, mag disconnect, and micro stamping.

Although I recently noticed that many of the SIG pistols have LCIs now. I am wondering if there was a change in the law which requires all handguns to have LCI, mag disconnect, ect. in order to be added to the roster? So will future versions of other pistols, CZ-75s, Glocks ect. require these features or is this a decision SIG has made for their entire lineup regardless of the law?

Any help would be appreciated.

[SkyHawk]

Sig makes a line of CA compliant pistols based on their 'free state' pistols. Many people do not want them with the CA features, I wouldn't buy one. Here they are http://www.sigsauer.com/CatalogProdu...t-pistols.aspx

They were grandfathered on the roster before micro stamping was required. Nothing about the pistols can change besides cosmetics, or it will fall off the roster.

They make the same pistols without the CA features. They are not putting LCI on most of their pistols - it is just available as an option where required on some of their pistols. Even the .22 Mosquito is made with and without LCI. The new 320 does not have LCI.

Do you have an example of a pistol they are shipping everywhere and only offered with LCI, besides the 9mm 2022? That is the only one I know of. AFAIK all their other pistols do not have LCI by default and where possible, it is only offered as an option. But I am not a Sig expert.

Any semi auto pistol not currently on the roster will require all of those features you mentioned to be sold here, unless we win a lawsuit. That goes for Glock and everyone else. If they change anything about their pistols that are currently listed, besides a minor cosmetic change, they will fall off the roster and require ALL the features to get back on. LCI alone is not enough to get on the CA roster, you need mag disconnect and micro stamping. Glock will never do this nor will Ruger, S&W, Sig etc.

Some manufacturers are REMOVING LCI from new models, for instance the Ruger LC9s. The LC9 had LCI, the LC9s does not. Ruger said screw CA. When microstamping became the law - these mfgs started the pushback and said enough is enough. Others of course never offered LCI or mag disconnect on any models and probably never will - most notably GLOCK.

[North Bay Guy]

It's the micro stamping law that will hopefully help kill the roster. Nothing, zip, zero new pistols will be added to the roster thanks to the micro stamping law. Some pistols will be renewed but nothing new will ever be added to the roster again.

[email]

I feel safer with LCI. It's for the children.

[Librarian]

Sky.Hawk wrote a good summary.

See also the wiki -- http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/The_Safe_Handgun_List

[Mitch]

Some manufacturers are REMOVING LCI from new models, for instance the Ruger LC9s. The LC9 had LCI, the LC9s does not. Ruger said screw CA. When microstamping became the law - these mfgs started the pushback and said enough is enough. Others of course never offered LCI or mag disconnect on any models and probably never will - most notably GLOCK.

Good. An LCI is a stupid idea anyway. If anything, it should be an unloaded chamber indicator, since millions of handguns are out there with no external indication of whether they are loaded or not, except for Rule #1.

[Quiet]

FYI.

CA requires a Chamber Load Indicator (CLI) [PC 16380], not a Loaded Chamber Indicator (LCI).

All Chamber Load Indicators are Loaded Chamber Indicators, but not all Loaded Chamber Indicators are Chamber Load Indicators.

Chamber Load Indicator (CLI)


Loaded Chamber Indicator (LCI)



Penal Code 16380
As used in this part, "chamber load indicator" means a device that plainly indicates that a cartridge is in the firing chamber. A device satisfies this definition if it is readily visible, has incorporated or adjacent explanatory text or graphics, or both, and is designed and intended to indicate to a reasonably foreseeable adult user of the pistol, without requiring the user to refer to a user's manual or any other resource other than the pistol itself, whether a cartridge is in the firing chamber.

[CSACANNONEER]

All guns are ALWAYS LOADED so, why have a mechanical device which could fail and lead to accidents? LCIs are a stupid thing.

[Flogger23m]

Thanks for the replies everyone. So assuming CZ and Glock (Gen 3s) don't make any changes to their current grandfathered pistols, they will still continue to be sold as they are without the CLI, mag disconnect, microstamping ect.?

My point of concern was I noticed most of the SIG pistols at multiple gun stores had LCIs. P226, 228 and various versions of them. I assume SIG can continue selling a P226 without CLI as it was grandfathered in? Looking on the Roster I can't tell which P226s have and don't have it. In particular, I am looking for a standard P226 with rail or MK25 without the CA features.

[Librarian]

Thanks for the replies everyone. So assuming CZ and Glock (Gen 3s) don't make any changes to their current grandfathered pistols, they will still continue to be sold as they are without the CLI, mag disconnect, microstamping ect.?

Yes. (also, they must continue to pay the annual $200 per model to remain on the Roster)

[bountyhunter]

Changing a gun's design to add an LCI or any feature means spending a lot of $$$, selling two different versions (because most states don't want those features) adds even more cost and problems. The only gun makers who will spend the money are the ones who sell enough volume here to justify it. GLOCK's choice not to means they plan to keep their old models "on the list" forever by renewal.

Hopefully this will reduce the number of qualified guns to the point the "list" will be seen as an unreasonable restriction and it will be struck down.

[SkyHawk]

My point of concern was I noticed most of the SIG pistols at multiple gun stores had LCIs. P226, 228 and various versions of them. I assume SIG can continue selling a P226 without CLI as it was grandfathered in? Looking on the Roster I can't tell which P226s have and don't have it. In particular, I am looking for a standard P226 with rail or MK25 without the CA features.

I don't think Sig ever had a 226 without CLI on the roster, so you will not find one on-roster without CLI because there was nothing to grandfather. If you look at the roster, all the 226 models have CA in the part number, indicating they have the safety features.

If you want a 226 or Mk25 without CA features (aka free state version), you have to get it via SSE before year end. Should not be a problem but don't delay. You will have a very desirable pistol.