FFL frustration, why is this so hard????

[Sacperformance]

I know I?ll get roasted for this, told to search the forum, etc etc?.. but I?m really at a loss over what seems to ME to be a simple transaction. The facts:
My adult son attended college for 3 years in Oklahoma. While he was an Oklahoma resident with an Oklahoma DL and address , he legally purchased 4 firearms from an Oklahoma gun retailer. He bought a lever action 30/30, a Browning Citori O/U shotgun, a Glock 48 and a M&P 2.0 9 mm. He has now moved back to CA, has a CA drivers license, and has established residency in my home and get his bills and mail here. He has zero legal issues and he and I are in no way prohibited persons.
He wants to gift to me the handguns. Neither are on the roster, obviously. The M&P has 10 round mags.
I?ve been referred to 3 different ?table top? FFL?s by friends and customers. First: can?t be done with off roster guns. Second: same answer. Third: he has to ?sell? me the guns, thru an FFL, and all the waiting/Dros rules apply same as a private party purchase, but he can sell them to me for any amount (he suggested 50 dollars each).
My own research tells me this shouldn?t be so hard?.. and that it could be done on a form 4544A, as long as I currently hold a valid FSC (mine is expired but I can get a fresh one immediately).
I know the right answer resides with someone here?.anyone willing to set me right?

[ASD1]

Look up PC 27585

CA may have still have been treating your son as a resident of CA when he was at school.

[hermosabeach]

to make sure I have it correct...


Your adult biological son now lives in California....
Son wants to gift you an off roster firearm....



You can simply fill out a form to gift from Parent to child or child to parent.
it's a small processing fee.

You will need to be eligible to buy a handgun... and have a valid FSC as I understand it

https://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/agweb/pdfs/firearms/forms/oplaw.pdf

[hermosabeach]

Did your son register the firearms when he moved to California and they are in the system?

If your son was still in a different state, then your son would have to ship to an FFL and you do the DROS with the FFL

https://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/agweb/pdfs/firearms/forms/ab991frm.pdf

[Sacperformance]

Did your son register the firearms when he moved to California and they are in the system?

If your son was still in a different state, then your son would have to ship to an FFL and you do the DROS with the FFL


https://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/a...s/ab991frm.pdf

He did not report the guns to CA when he moved back, he was unaware of the requirement to do so. (I just found this out 5 minutes ago).

[broadside]

Regardless of your son's residency status, he is allowed to gift you a gun, on roster or not.

How he has to go about that is what you need to determine.

If he is a CA resident as CA determines that for firearms, then he can give it to you can you can fill out the Intrafamilial transfer form and send $19 to the CA DOJ. No FFL needed.

If he is not a CA resident as CA determines that for firearms, then find an FFL that understands Intrastate-Interfamilial transfer. Your son needs to have a letter indicating that he is your son and he is gifting you the the gun (include make, model and serial). If the FFL is cool he can go with to the FFL and hand deliver it to them. Otherwise the FFL may require the gun be shipped in.

In either case you need the FSC or an exemption to it.

[SkyHawk]

If both you and your son are CA residents, you do not need to use a FFL. It does not matter that he has not registered them. Go online to CFARS and file the intrafamily form.

[Quiet]

Since the son was not considered a CA resident while residing in OK, it was legal for him to import the firearms he acquired as a OK resident into CA as a new resident of CA.
^Note that if he had retained his CA residency while residing in OK, then CA would have continue to consider him a CA resident and any firearms he acquired as an OK resident needs to be imported into CA through a CA FFL dealer [PC 27585(a)] with failure to utilizing a CA FFL dealer equating to a misdemeanor per long gun [PC 27590(a)] and a felony per handgun [PC 27590(c)(7)].

Since both of the father and son are currently CA residents and they meet the CA legal definition of an "immediate family member" [PC 16720], it is legal for them to transfer firearms between each other without needing to utilize a CA FFL dealer to facilitate the transfer.

Therefore...

The CA son needs to report all of the firearms he intends to keep, that he brought to CA as a new resident of CA, to CA DOJ BOF. [PC 27560(a)(1)]

After the CA son gifts the firearm to his CA father, the CA father needs to report the transfer to CA DOJ BOF within 30 days of taking possession of the firearm. [PC 27875(a)]
The CA father will need a valid FSC or exemption to the FSC.



Penal Code 17000
(a) As used in this part, until January 1, 2014, any reference to the term “personal firearm importer” shall be deemed to mean “personal handgun importer” and, on and after January 1, 2014, any reference to the term “personal handgun importer” shall be deemed to mean “personal firearm importer.” A “personal handgun importer,” until January 1, 2014, and commencing January 1, 2014, a “personal firearm importer” means an individual who meets all of the following criteria:
(1) The individual is not a person licensed pursuant to Article 1 (commencing with Section 26700) and Article 2 (commencing with Section 26800) of Chapter 2 of Division 6 of Title 4.
(2) The individual is not a licensed manufacturer of firearms pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code.
(3) The individual is not a licensed importer of firearms pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto.
(4) The individual is the owner of a firearm.
(5) The individual acquired that firearm outside of California.
(6) The individual moved into this state on or after January 1, 1998, in the case of a handgun, or in the case of a firearm that is not a handgun, on or after January 1, 2014, as a resident of this state.
(7) The individual intends to possess that handgun within this state on or after January 1, 1998, or in the case of a firearm that is not a handgun, he or she intends to possess that firearm within this state on or after January 1, 2014.
(8) The firearm was not delivered to the individual by a person licensed pursuant to Article 1 (commencing with Section 26700) and Article 2 (commencing with Section 26800) of Chapter 2 of Division 6 of Title 4, who delivered that firearm following the procedures set forth in Section 27540 and Article 1 (commencing with Section 26700) and Article 2 (commencing with Section 26800) of Chapter 2 of Division 6 of Title 4.
(9) The individual, while a resident of this state, had not previously reported ownership of that firearm to the Department of Justice in a manner prescribed by the department that included information concerning the individual and a description of the firearm.
(10) The firearm is not a firearm that is prohibited by any provision listed in Section 16590.
(11) The firearm is not an assault weapon.
(12) The firearm is not a machinegun.
(13) The person is 18 years of age or older.
(14) The firearm is not a .50 BMG rifle.
(15) The firearm is not a destructive device.
(b) For purposes of paragraph (6) of subdivision (a):
(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), residency shall be determined in the same manner as is the case for establishing residency pursuant to Section 12505 of the Vehicle Code.
(2) In the case of a member of the Armed Forces of the United States, residency shall be deemed to be established when the individual was discharged from active service in this state.

Penal Code 27560
(a) Within 60 days of bringing a handgun, and commencing January 1, 2014, any firearm, into this state, a personal firearm importer shall do one of the following:
(1) Forward by prepaid mail or deliver in person to the Department of Justice, a report prescribed by the department including information concerning that individual and a description of the firearm in question.
(2) Sell or transfer the firearm in accordance with the provisions of Section 27545 or in accordance with the provisions of an exemption from Section 27545.
(3) Sell or transfer the firearm to a dealer licensed pursuant to Article 1 (commencing with Section 26700) and Article 2 (commencing with Section 26800) of Chapter 2.
(4) Sell or transfer the firearm to a sheriff or police department.

Penal Code 27875
(a) Section 27545 does not apply to the transfer of a firearm by gift, bequest, intestate succession, or other means from one individual to another, if all of the following requirements are met:
(1) The transfer is infrequent, as defined in Section 16730.
(2) The transfer is between members of the same immediate family.
(3) Within 30 days of taking possession of the firearm, the person to whom it is transferred shall submit a report to the Department of Justice, in a manner prescribed by the department, that includes information concerning the individual taking possession of the firearm, how title was obtained and from whom, and a description of the firearm in question. The reports that individuals complete pursuant to this subdivision shall be made available to them in a format prescribed by the department.
(4) Until January 1, 2015, the person taking title to the firearm shall first obtain a valid handgun safety certificate if the firearm is a handgun, and commencing January 1, 2015, a valid firearm safety certificate for any firearm, except that in the case of a handgun, a valid unexpired handgun safety certificate may be used.
(5) The person receiving the firearm is 18 years of age or older.

Penal Code 16720
As used in this part, “immediate family member” means either of the following relationships:
(a) Parent and child.
(b) Grandparent and grandchild.

[Sacperformance]

Since the son was not considered a CA resident while residing in OK, it was legal for him to import the firearms he acquired as a OK resident into CA as a new resident of CA.

Since both of the father and son are currently CA residents and they meet the CA legal definition of an "immediate family member", it is legal for them to transfer firearms between each other without needing to utilize a CA FFL dealer to facilitate the transfer.

Therefore...

The CA son needs to report all of the firearms he intends to keep, that he brought to CA as a new resident of CA, to CA DOJ BOF. [PC 27560(a)]

After the CA son gifts the firearm to his CA father, the CA father needs to report the transfer to CA DOJ BOF within 30 days of taking possession of the firearm. [PC 27875(a)]
The CA father will need a valid FSC or exemption to the FSC.

Does my son need to report the 2 pistols to CA DOJ before he can transfer them to me? Or do you mean he needs to report the remaining guns he will have in his possession?

[Quiet]

Does my son need to report the 2 pistols to CA DOJ before he can transfer them to me? Or do you mean he needs to report the remaining guns he will have in his possession?

He reports the firearms he is keeping and you report the firearms you received from him.

[Sacperformance]

He reports the firearms he is keeping and you report the firearms you received from him.

Many thanks you guys?.. it was in fact less complicated than the FFL?s told me.

[Scooooter7]

Is your son's name Hunter?

Haha, just kidding, what they said. ^^^^