What makes a weapon an AOW in CA?

[beanz2]

So if I have a large frame pistol such as an AR or an AK pistol, how do you make it into an AOW in this state?

Not a question as much as filling out the paperwork with the ATF, but how do you physically make a pistol into an AOW? Dimensions, physical features, necessary accessories, etc.

[jarhead714]

I believe in this state it can only be done with a shotgun, no?

[Quiet]

So if I have a large frame pistol such as an AR or an AK pistol, how do you make it into an AOW in this state?

Not a question as much as filling out the paperwork with the ATF, but how do you physically make a pistol into an AOW? Dimensions, physical features, necessary accessories, etc.

The firearm being a BATFE approved Title 2 AOW makes it an AOW under CA laws. [PC 17710(a)]

If you have a Title 1 Handgun and want to make it a Title 2 AOW, then submit a Form 4 to make an AOW to BATFE.
Once BATFE approves your Form 1, then install a vertical forward grip to it.

The addition of a vertical forward grip is the only feature necessary to cause a handgun to become an AOW.

Keep in mind that BATFE approved Title 2 AOW are not exempt from CA assault weapons laws.

[superhondaz50]

Quiet, Form 1 to make, 4 to transfer. Smooth bore can also make an AOW

[beanz2]

The firearm being a BATFE approved Title 2 AOW makes it an AOW under CA laws. [PC 17710(a)]

If you have a Title 1 Handgun and want to make it a Title 2 AOW, then submit a Form 4 to make an AOW to BATFE.
Once BATFE approves your Form 1, then install a vertical forward grip to it.

The addition of a vertical forward grip is the only feature necessary to cause a handgun to become an AOW.

Keep in mind that BATFE approved Title 2 AOW are not exempt from CA assault weapons laws.

Awesome!

Now, add another twist, may I? I have multiple residences in different states and I have registered NFA items in NV. What if I were to take one of my California BBRAW pistols to NV and register it as an AOW there, and submit a Form 5320.20 to the ATF to bring it back to CA?

I suppose I can register it as a Californian, but I've never done that from within the state. And am afraid if try to register it as an AOW with a different address, no less from a different state, would mess up my other pending Form 1 and Form 4 applications that are being processed.

[Quiet]

Now, add another twist, may I? I have multiple residences in different states and I have registered NFA items in NV. What if I were to take one of my California BBRAW pistols to NV and register it as an AOW there, and submit a Form 5320.20 to the ATF to bring it back to CA?

I suppose I can register it as a Californian, but I've never done that from within the state. And am afraid if try to register it as an AOW with a different address, no less from a different state, would mess up my other pending Form 1 and Form 4 applications that are being processed.

The ATF Form 5320.20 is not required to legally transport a an AOW across state lines.

The ATF Form 5320.20 is required to legally transport a DD, MG, SBR, or SBS across state lines.

Need to submit the Form 1 in the State that you reside in.

IMO...
Submit Form 1 in CA for the firearms you legally acquired in CA.
Submit Form 1 in NV for the firearms you legally acquired in NV.


Also, because of CA laws requiring a CA resident to utilize a CA FFL dealer to legally import firearms they legally acquired in another State into CA... [PC 27585(a)]
Leave your NV firearms in NV.
Because if you do not utilize a CA FFL dealer to bring your NV firearms into CA, then those firearms are considered illegal (misdemeanor per long gun and felony per handgun) firearms that are subject to confiscation/destruction if discovered in CA.
If you do utilize a CA FFL dealer... the CA DROS system prevents non-exempt off-Roster handguns being brought into CA.

[superhondaz50]

Register in CA, no reason not to if it is already here.

[superhondaz50]

Also, if anyone is interested, my last two eform 1's in June took 22 days, super fast right now.

[beanz2]

Maybe I'll submit an "Ask The Experts" query on their website first. Some of the other stuff I've been waiting for have been sitting at the NV FFL for a while. I'd hate to rock that apple cart.

[beanz2]

Also, because of CA laws requiring a CA resident to utilize a CA FFL dealer to legally import firearms they legally acquired in another State into CA... [PC 27585(a)]
Leave your NV firearms in NV.
Because if you do not utilize a CA FFL dealer to bring your NV firearms into CA, then those firearms are considered illegal (misdemeanor per long gun and felony per handgun) firearms that are subject to confiscation/destruction if discovered in CA.
If you do utilize a CA FFL dealer... the CA DROS system prevents non-exempt off-Roster handguns being brought into CA.

Thanks, but no firearm I acquired in NV has crossed into CA. I was talking about taking a CA acquired firearm, a BBRAW nonetheless, to NV, applying for an AOW status there and back. If the gun was legally acquired in this state, would it require an FFL's involvement to bring it back? Does the new AOW status make it into a different firearm?

[RickD427]

Thanks, but no firearm I acquired in NV has crossed into CA. I was talking about taking a CA acquired firearm, a BBRAW nonetheless, to NV, applying for an AOW status there and back. If the gun was legally acquired in this state, would it require an FFL's involvement to bring it back? Does the new AOW status make it into a different firearm?

That's probably not gonna work.

DOJ has taken the position in BBRAW regulations, that changing the magazine release on a BBRAW "converts the assault weapon into a different weapon from the one that was registered" (refer to 11 CCR 5477). If that minor of a change produces a "different weapon", then it's a pretty sure bet that changing the weapon from a Title 1 Handgun to a Title 2 AOW is also gonna produce a "different" weapon in the DOJ's view.

There's no issue taking your Title 1 handgun to Nevada. But if you turn it into a Title 2 AOW while in Nevada, you've now acquired (by virtue of the conversion) an AOW (which is still also a handgun as defined by California) outside of California while still a resident of California. That's legal, but if you personally bring that handgun into California, you commit a felony (refer to PC 27590). You can legally import such a handgun using a California FFL, but then the handgun has to be on the roster.

[beanz2]

That's probably not gonna work.

DOJ has taken the position in BBRAW regulations, that changing the magazine release on a BBRAW "converts the assault weapon into a different weapon from the one that was registered" (refer to 11 CCR 5477). If that minor of a change produces a "different weapon", then it's a pretty sure bet that changing the weapon from a Title 1 Handgun to a Title 2 AOW is also gonna produce a "different" weapon in the DOJ's view.

There's no issue taking your Title 1 handgun to Nevada. But if you turn it into a Title 2 AOW while in Nevada, you've now acquired (by virtue of the conversion) an AOW (which is still also a handgun as defined by California) outside of California while still a resident of California. That's legal, but if you personally bring that handgun into California, you commit a felony (refer to PC 27590). You can legally import such a handgun using a California FFL, but then the handgun has to be on the roster.

Thanks, RickD427. I can see how CA-DOJ would view it as a “different firearm”

So, let’s say the Form 1 AOW application was made on a BBRAW in CA by a Californian and it gets approved by the ATF. Would CA-DOJ consider that gun then to be a different firearm than the one they approved as BBRAW, and therefore getting an AOW status for the BBRAW pistol makes it an unregistered assault weapon? This is for a firearm that never leaves the state.

[RickD427]

That would be my read. Please note that California's "Assault Weapon" statute does not exclude AOW's.

The "Creation of a new weapon form the old weapon" issue isn't dependent on the state line.

But at the same time, it's also important to understand that the whole "creation of a new weapon" thing is the product of a DOJ position. It doesn't appear in statute, and only appears in regulation with regard to BBRAWs. It would be interesting to see if it could withstand a court challenge, but so far no one has volunteered to be the test case.

[Quiet]

AFAIK...

AOW status does not change how the host firearm is registered due to there being no official category for it in the CA system.
^Which could be one of the reasons why the making of a Title 2 AOW is exempt from CA self-made firearm laws. [PC 29181(d)]

AOW that are transferred through a CA FFL dealer are DROS'd as "pistol" because there is no "other" or "AOW" category in DROS and the AOW meets the CA definition of a "pistol". The only thing that would tag it as an AOW is if it was noted as a BATFE approved Title 2 AOW in the pistol's comment section.

If a CA DROS'd pistol was made into an AOW by the pistol's owner, then it's status as an AOW would not be shown in that pistol's AFS record. Because the info that it is a BATFE approved Title 2 AOW does not get passed on to CA DOJ by BATFE and CA DOJ knowing this occurred would only happen if the owner/maker of the AOW voluntarily notifies CA DOJ by submitting a Firearm Ownership Report to update the firearm's configuration/status and indicate it is a BATFE approved Title 2 AOW in the firearm's comment section.

Since the firearm remains in the "pistol" category and it is not physically changed so that it meets the definition of a "rifle" or "shotgun", it's status as a "pistol" would remain unchanged.

Since the pistol BBRAW will retain it's "bullet button" style magazine release, it's status of a BBRAW should not change.

The BBRAW status changes if the "bullet button" style magazine release is replaced/changed/altered in a manner that does not require a tool to remove the magazine. This is because CA DOJ views that as making the BBRAW into an AW.

I know one person that owned a H&K SP89 RAW (registered in 2000) that was later made into an AOW and the AOW making process did not change the firearm's RAW status.

[beanz2]

Thanks, Quiet. Is there a requirement that we notify CA DOJ regarding a new AOW status on a BBRAW?