Any interest in "bulletproof" inserts for backpacks?

[shawmcbigdis]

No pictures of the tests? Inquiring eyes want to see!!!

I did video it, but it's not the greatest. The "test" setup was really cheesy, so I don't really want to post the video, since if I do actually release a product, I don't want a video that lame being part of it

However, I will snap some pics of the panel we shot at. I somehow lost the 12g slug that was in the panel, I'm bummed about that, but you will be able to clearly see wear the shots went in, and none came out, along with the big "wound" on the edge from were the slug hit.

[Lugiahua]

Well I may be wrong as I'm just what I like to call a trigger monkey, but as long as the hard plates are not labeled as US property (SAPI plates) then hard plates are legal to own and use in conjunction with soft armor.

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/archive/index.php/t-116860.html

Again if I'm wrong someone please correct me.

same here, I never heard that civilians can not own or use hard plates other than in selective few states. At least I believe it's legal in CA.

I would like to see the reference from the law.

[shawmcbigdis]

OK, here are some pics. This is just a test sample I threw together, and not the exact specs of what my final version will be, but this gives you an idea of what this thing will stop. Also this is a very small panel, only 5x8. A larger panel will absorb the shock of the bullets much better.

Oh, and it looks worse in the pics than it did right after I shot it, I had to cut the outer nylon open to get in there and look at the damage. When we first took it off the bag it looked to be in surprisingly good shape on the outside.

The pics are pretty self-explanatory. "Open back" is the outer nylon removed so you can see the back of the hard panel. "Open inside" is the nylon removed, and the kevlar and hard panel folded away from each other; so you are essentially seeing the back of the kevlar and the front of the hard plate. And "top slug" is a view of the damage the slug did when it hit the top edge. The slug was sitting in that pocket when we cut open the nylon, so it was completely stopped.

[shawmcbigdis]

Just to let the interested people know, I am still working on this. Had some problems with Kevlar being on back order, but I should get some in soon, and then will do some testing and let those interested know how it is going.

Thanks

[bacon_lover]

Having a bulletproof backpack on would be a real good thing if you are running away from gunfire.
(...)
And if I do ever get around to actually selling these things I will advise buyers to keep it a secret from their children. My kids will not know it is there.

If I wanted to run away fast, the first thing I'd do is drop the excess weight of a backpack, especially if it's loaded with books, binders, and whatever else they're gonna carry. Yes, I suppose they could empty the contents, but that takes time and you're talking about an immediate flight response. Now, if you want them to keep the backpack on for protection, then you'll likely need to explain why.

[chrisf]

3 dictionaries should do the trick.. Alot cheaper too.

[shawmcbigdis]

If I wanted to run away fast, the first thing I'd do is drop the excess weight of a backpack, especially if it's loaded with books, binders, and whatever else they're gonna carry. Yes, I suppose they could empty the contents, but that takes time and you're talking about an immediate flight response. Now, if you want them to keep the backpack on for protection, then you'll likely need to explain why.

I doubt you, or especially kids would have the thought to "drop the excess weight of a backpack" during a shooting. I sure as hell wouldn't, I'd just want to get the heck out of there. Like you said "immediate flight response" not pausing to remove a backpack. Now if they have it slung over 1 shoulder like a lot of kids, that's different. That comes down to a training issue. Not only does it make the insert a lot less effective, it's bad for their backs, so you should try to make your kids always wear the backpack properly (regardless of if it has a bulletproof insert in it or not).

Yes, I agree that getting them to rely on their backpack, without explaining to them that it is bulletproof, is a conundrum that I haven't figured out yet.

[shawmcbigdis]

3 dictionaries should do the trick.. Alot cheaper too.

Heck of a lot heavier too. Also probably won't cover nearly the surface area that one of these inserts will. And with the insert in, they would still be able to carry the things they actually need.

Again, I am not saying that this is a must have item. Thankfully we don't yet live in a world where this is absolutely needed. But, it may be useful one day, God forbid. And for that I think it is worth the money. It's somewhat extravagant sure, but at less than $200 for something that may save your kids life (or your life if you have one in your backpack, IE that CCW holder in LV that got shot by the police that I linked to earlier), it's worth it. To me at least.

[shawmcbigdis]

If I wanted to run away fast, the first thing I'd do is drop the excess weight of a backpack, especially if it's loaded with books, binders, and whatever else they're gonna carry. Yes, I suppose they could empty the contents, but that takes time and you're talking about an immediate flight response. Now, if you want them to keep the backpack on for protection, then you'll likely need to explain why.

Oh and that is one of the best avatar's (and user names) I have ever seen! Love it.

[bayonet]

I'm just curious, could you stick one of these sheets into a laptop or ipad case like this? No need to save the device from gunfire, but the idea is you can put your computer in a bag or briefcase and maybe stop something or just use the case with device itself. Supposedly, the device can be the backing. Again, I'm not an expert, and I'm just curious. Quick search only revealed a thick steel and bulletproof glass case.

[shawmcbigdis]

I'm just curious, could you stick one of these sheets into a laptop or ipad case like this? No need to save the device from gunfire, but the idea is you can put your computer in a bag or briefcase and maybe stop something or just use the case itself. Supposedly, the device can be the backing. Again, I'm not an expert, and I'm just curious. Quick search only revealed a thick steel and bulletproof glass case.

Yes. Something like that iPad case would be a super tight fit though. The full panel with the Kevlar and the ballistic fiberglass will be about 1/2 inch think, and rigid so you won't be able to "squeeze" it into a space.

However I am going to offer custom sizes, so I can make any size you need to fit any application. I am also thinking of offering panels that have the Kevlar removable, so in cases where you don't need the backspace protection and just the armor you could use the Kevlar by itself. Also if I am doing that I will probably offer just Kevlar panels by themselves. Their are a lot of caveats with that though.

First, on my standard panels the Kevlar will only be NIJ Level IIA (maybe II, we need to finish testing and ballistic certification before I know for sure) by itself without the ballistic fiberglass. So it won't stop 44 mag, 357 or super high speed 9mm. But I will probably offer an upgrade with the Kevlar being Level IIIA by itself. So the total panel will be well over Level IIIA (but not III or IV as it won't stop rifle rounds), but it will probably stop crazy handguns like 50AE or S&W 500, and lower velocity carbine rounds.

Second; Kevlar by itself will not stop nearly as many rounds as my complete panel will. The way the Kevlar and fiberglass work together it makes for very good multi-hit stopping abilities. If you remove the fiberglass, then the Kevlar will want to "ball up" around each shot, thus vastly lowering it's ability to take multiple hits. There are ways around that, but it involves a lot of sewing, and extra Kevlar, which would add greatly to the cost of the panels.

Third; If you take a Kevlar panel and stick it in something like that iPad case, where it is surrounded by hard surfaces you will greatly reduce it's ability to stop a gunshot. The reason being the Kevlar needs to be able to move and "catch" the round. If it has a hard surface behind it, it is very possible the bullet will go right through the Kevlar.

But if you just want a panel to put in your laptop bag or backpack. Then heck yes I can do that.

[bacon_lover]

I doubt you, or especially kids would have the thought to "drop the excess weight of a backpack" during a shooting. I sure as hell wouldn't, I'd just want to get the heck out of there.

True, since I've never been involved in a school shooting, it's hypothetical. However, I can speak for those times when I've had to suddenly dash to catch a bus. Back then, my backpack weighed at least 20 pounds, and believe me, when you need to hightail it, that weight becomes immediately apparent. Dropping a backpack can be done in a split second btw... just grab the straps, throw your arms back, puff out your chest, and let it fall off you.

[forgiven]

Probably not - 2 1/2 extra pounds is a lot for an adult let alone a child.

[shawmcbigdis]

Just an update on this. I am still working on these, just trying to get them to the point I really want them.

Right now I've got it to stop a 1200FPS 1oz 12g slug with just about an inch of backspace deformation. This is well beyond NIJ Level IIIA (the most powerful round IIIA is rated for is a 240g 44 mag 1400 FPS with 1.7" of backspace. The 44 is quit a bit less force than the slug, but I haven't yet tested that round). 124g 1200FPS 9mm are stopped with no noticeable backspace what so ever.

I am focusing on multi-shot capability and seeing if it is even feasible to stop a 12g slug with 3/4" or less of backspace. That just might not be possible with cost and weight constraints.

Prices I am looking at right now, I hope to be at $150 for a small 12" backpack, $175 for a medium 14" kids backpack, and $199 for a large 16" high school size backpack. These are rough guestimates, but should be pretty darn close. I will also offer custom sizes/shapes. It can be any shape, including rounded, but must be flat. I will probably also do some kind of group buy or intro price when these first come out.

I am also looking at offering 2 levels for these panels. Basic would be NIJ Level IIIA with low backspace. Then a higher level which I might call "IIIA-Plus" which will be NIJ IIIA with little to no backspace, and the ability to remove just the Kevlar portion of the armor plate and use it on it's own. The Kevlar will be NIJ IIIA by itself, but will have standard backspace limits (so up to 1.7" for some rounds), but will be usefull for when either weight is at an absolute premium, or you don't care so much about backspace penetration.

[shawmcbigdis]

OK, everyone I finally have everything ready for this. I just started a thread in the vendor forum with a link to the product, and a coupon code for Cal-Guns.

Take a look at it here.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=640711