Sig Sauer P320, Banned

[SDDAVE56]

Popular police gun permanently banned at Washington training academy

The decision to ban the Sig Sauer P320 at training facilities could be costly for the departments that carry the widely used handgun.

https://www.king5.com/article/news/investigations/investigators/popular-police-gun-banned-washington-training-academy/281-367460ec-bd83-4f68-94db-4b087aa07bf2

[newshooter650]

People bag on Hi-Point C9s but you never hear about these kind of self-firing shenanigans with them.

[Scotty]

What do these discharges have in common?

1. P320
2. Firing in the holster

And vast majority of them are with the police.

So they don't go off...anymore...when you drop them, hit it with a hammer, smack it against your head.

What makes them so special when it is put into a duty holster?

[ShaneB]

A friend of mine carries a full size 320 in a safariland holster every day, has for at least the last five years I believe.He bought it new and still hasnt sent it back for the recall. He still doesnt have any extra holes in him. I know its only a representation of one.

[broadside]

A friend of mine carries a full size 320 in a safariland holster every day, has for at least the last five years I believe.He bought it new and still hasnt sent it back for the recall. He still doesnt have any extra holes in him. I know its only a representation of one.

I bet the issues are batch/lot based around specific parts (likely some of the MIM parts) and he does not have one with parts from those batches.

[The Gleam]

Somewhere, out there, Alec Baldwin is pointing at his computer and emitting a high screech of:

"SEE! Guns DO go off without pulling the trigger!"

---

[Citadelgrad87]

What do these discharges have in common?

1. P320
2. Firing in the holster

And vast majority of them are with the police.

So they don't go off...anymore...when you drop them, hit it with a hammer, smack it against your head.

What makes them so special when it is put into a duty holster?

My understanding, and it's limited, is that these are confined to the non manual safety versions, and the M17 and M18 versions with a 1911 style safety don't have the issue. My CA x 5 legion has that safety, and I use it. I only compete with it, but I take some comfort in the presence of the manual safety.

I think it's possible that with no mechanical safety, the trigger is being moved enough to cause discharge?

[Scotty]

I think it's possible that with no mechanical safety, the trigger is being moved enough to cause discharge?

But that's a holster issue. The holster is not suppose to touch the trigger.

[CessnaDriver]

Just got an Email the other day from Grayguns basically saying they simply have been unable to replicate the problem no matter what they tried.

[SqueezeCocker]

Just got an Email the other day from Grayguns basically saying they simply have been unable to replicate the problem no matter what they tried.

Bruce Gray is a shill for Sig.

[Snoopy47]

But that's a holster issue. The holster is not suppose to touch the trigger.

Trainees having the finger in the trigger guard when they holster. BOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's not being pointed out.............. but the VAST MAJORITY of police academy trainees HAVE NEVER TOUCHED A HAND GUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!! EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Then all of the sudden they are handling them DAILY and using them A LOT relative to the rest of the world.

Even the guys that are coming out of the military. Handguns only go to specialized units or senior leadership. Everyone else is given RIFLES.

*************
My observations are of course limited to my single police academy class, and my military range qualification experience.

Too bad for SIG, because a prior crappy product has set them up easily for product blame going forward.

Being a TOP NOTCH shooter and firearms handler in a police academy or basic training it tantamount to being the smart kid on the short bus.

[Scotty]

Trainees having the finger in the trigger guard when they holster. BOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!
the short bus.

I'm fully aware of the lack of training most cops have. I used to shoot with a police chief/head of swat team/USPSA GM. His swat team qualified as novice when they tried shooting the IDPA classifier.

There are videos of cops who didn't have their hands on the gun when it went off. Some external force was introduced that can't be replicated with the gun alone. So that means there's something with the holster.

As it is, there's already safety issues with some WML capable holsters as evidence from this video. https://youtu.be/c3s862F2Wqo?si=30ZHRlFLYSorGqZs

[Scotty]

https://www.usacarry.com/federal-court-dismisses-lawsuit-against-sig-sauer-as-officer-admits-p320-did-not-fire-on-its-own/

[Citadelgrad87]

But that's a holster issue. The holster is not suppose to touch the trigger.

I get that. I vividly remember when Glock came out with the "safe action trigger", and there were hundreds of "Glock leg" incidents, my dad still won't touch one because it doesn't have an external safety.

Glock finally overcame the inertia, and everyone pretty much accepts that Glocks are not going to go off unless there's a finger or something else depressing the blade and trigger.

Now the 320 comes along, and the non M17-M18 versions (which, again, I don't think are being reported as "going off"), they don't have ANY safety. Just depress the trigger and bang.

Maybe holsters that aren't supposed to activate the trigger ARE doing so? We just never knew it because the Glocks have that safe trigger?

[Scotty]

Trigger safeties are really used to pass the drop test, the problem that the original P320 had. That's why they had to reduce the mass of the trigger. In simple terms f=ma. f is the force required to release the striker. a is the impact acceleration. m is the mass of the trigger. If ma is greater than f, the gun fires. That's why they reduce m. What if you increase "a", in theory that is a possibility by dropping the gun higher. But other factors might come into play like something else breaking in the gun if the drop height gets ridiculously high.

I almost had a M&P leg once about 10 years ago. At that point in time, I've been shooting competitions every weekend for the past 15 or so years. At load and make ready, apparently my trigger finger was more straight than angled out and as the gun was going into the holster, the tip of my finger made contact with the lip of the holster and went into the trigger guard. I FELT THE TRIGGER WITH MY FINGER! I manage to stop it in time, almost had to change underwear.

How did this happen...COMPLACENCY. The reality is I saw this all the time working as the safety officer at IDPA matches. Mostly people keep their eyes on the first target and just shove the gun into the holster. Sometimes they miss the holster, sometimes their cover garment gets caught, sometimes the cover garment goes into the holster, and sometimes a finger goes in and fires a round (actually saw that happen, hole in the ground was 2 ft from my foot).

What did I learn for my near mishap? Putting your gun into your holster should be a slow deliberate act. There's no race to see who can holster their gun the fastest. Visually check the holster is clear, stick that trigger finger as far out as possible, slowly under the gun in so you have a chance to stop the process. Watch the gun the entire time.

I did switch all my carry guns to hammer fired, but still compete with striker fired. IWB holsters are more difficult to holster. In addition with guns with hammer forward, I hold the hammer with my thumb so if something contacts the trigger I have an opposing force to keep the hammer from coming back. On my 1911's, I ease up on my grip so the grip safety is blocking the trigger.

Am I being overly paranoid, YUP. It's not if, but when you have an accident. If you shoot enough, you will have your share of ND's.