will standard 7.62x39 penetrate bullet proof vest ?

[sd1023x]

The steel core Chinese and Russian ammunition does penetrate to a much greater degree than completely lead core projectiles. The reason is because of the fact that steel is denser than lead. This is also why many of the larger projectiles produced for the military are from depleted uranium. It is one of the densest metals in the world.

When it comes to other rifle/ handgun projectiles, many ammunition manufacturers are beginning to use copper jacketed rounds for superior penetration. Examples include Remington Golden Sabre pistol rounds and Corbon's DPX projectiles. Copper is denser than lead and penetrates better, plus the jacket typically does not separate from the round......

Don't know what your reading, but might want to check the periodic table......lead is denser than steel and denser than copper.

[GotMojo]

The steel core Chinese and Russian ammunition does penetrate to a much greater degree than completely lead core projectiles. The reason is because of the fact that steel is denser than lead.

You sure about that Sparky?

Common Ball Material Density ( Metric Units )
Material Density ( grams / cm ^3 )

Aluminum Alloy 2.73
Gray Iron 7.2
Steel 7.86
00 Stainless Steel 8.02
Brass 8.47
Copper 8.91
Lead 11.35

[OneApart]

I needs me some level 4 for sure...

Seesm, PM sent.

[Sinixstar]

The way armor piercing ammo works doesn't entirely have anything to do with density of the materials being used. The idea that 'steel is denser then lead' is flat out false on it's face - but the reality is that has nothing to do with it.

The way armor piercing ammo works - is you have a hardened core typically surrounded by another softer metal, surrounded by a hardened jacket.

When the bullet strikes the target - the question of whether or not the armor stays intact, or the bullet is able to pierce it comes down more to hardness, not density. Lead is extremely dense, but also extremely soft. When a lead bullet hits a piece of steal - looking purely at the energy the bullet has on impact, and the force required to penetrate the steel - it *should* work. However, it doesn't. Because the lead is so much softer then steel - the bullets energy is lost in the deformation process as the lead is flattened.

Steel however is very hard - but not as dense.
So what happens is when an AP bullet hits? Instead of the bullet just flattening and losing all it's energy (as above) - The kinetic energy from the more dense (and thus producing more kinetic energy) jacket and outer core is transferred to the hardened inner core. The outer bullet is destroyed while simultaneously propelling the inner core into the target.

You could conceivably just use an entirely hardened bullet. Why even bother with lead or copper - just make a round from pure carbide steel? Well - because you'd destroy your barrel in just 1 or 2 shots. This is where Teflon coated ammo came into play. The Teflon was more to save the barrel then anything else. It had no effect on the target, but it kept you from shooting out your barrel. This was lost on most people - and they thought teflon helped it somehow "slip" through armor - and so it was banned.

Having the smaller steel penetrating element also lets you focus the energy upon impact into a very small package. This has a multiplying effect (for lack of a better word right now) giving that element a much greater chance of penetration. Think of it as putting a sharp spear tip on the end of a log.

Does that help clear some of this up in terms of lead vs steal and armor penetration? Seems like there's a lot of mis-conception about it.

Also - i thought the issue with some of the Chinese ammo had more to do with the jackets then the core. I believe some of the Euro mfg ammo uses steel in the jackets as well. It's not a true steel-core armor piercing round - but it does contain some steel. There is a big difference between true armor-piercing rounds, and rounds that just use some steel in their construction.

[sd1023x]

....

Also - i thought the issue with some of the Chinese ammo had more to do with the jackets then the core. I believe some of the Euro mfg ammo uses steel in the jackets as well. It's not a true steel-core armor piercing round - but it does contain some steel. There is a big difference between true armor-piercing rounds, and rounds that just use some steel in their construction.

We're not talking about bi-metal jacket stuff, I don't think it has any superior penetration capabilities, it just cheaper than full copper jacket, we are talking about true steel core (like M855).

[tombinghamthegreat]

We're not talking about bi-metal jacket stuff, I don't think it has any superior penetration capabilities, it just cheaper than full copper jacket, we are talking about true steel core (like M855).

Where can i buy some?

[Sinixstar]

@sd1023 - gotcha.

[Mendo223]

I still marvel to this day that no one except the perps died that day!

they were spraying and praying....

saw another video about helicopter pilots in vietnam...the 7.62 round would go through helicopter armor, and still be able to penetrate and kill a pilot...

They should make full auto legal, since it's apparently safer

hahaha so true! by forcing californians to have semi-auto, it makes us more accurate shooters! stupid brady campaign...

[SkiDevil]

Don't know what your reading, but might want to check the periodic table......lead is denser than steel and denser than copper.

Thanks for pointing that-out. I was wrong/ incorrect. Steel is harder than lead NOT denser.

You sure about that Sparky? Apparently Not.

Sinixstar, Thank you for the explanation/ clarification. I seem to have been misinformed or recalled what I read incorrectly. Either way I was wrong.

It is always good to learn something new.

SkiDevil


Common Ball Material Density ( Metric Units )
Material Density ( grams / cm ^3 )

Aluminum Alloy 2.73
Gray Iron 7.2
Steel 7.86
00 Stainless Steel 8.02
Brass 8.47
Copper 8.91
Lead 11.35
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[Bishop]

For anyone interested in the north hollywood shootout (which I suppose would be almost everyone here ) I highly recommend going to the CHP museum in LA. They have the ACTUAL GUNS and body armor used in the robberies and shootout. Also, they have the news coverage playing on TVs there.

VERY interesting display.

I think it's like $5 to get in. I got in for free with a sheriff. Call ahead to make sure it's the right one.

I highly recommend it.