Flash Hider vs Muzzle Brake/Compensator

[HawkMan]

What are the physical differences between a flash hider and a muzzle brake / compensator?

I'm going to build a featureless AR but realized that I probably won't be legally able to use my current upper on the gun as my current AR has the VG6 Epsilon Muzzle Brake which is also advertised as a flash hider.

[jdl6mm]

Why is that? Why can't you use your current upper?

Sent from my VS987 using Tapatalk

[hermosabeach]

In California.... it is a crapshoot


A coworker, years ago, had an Mini-14 with a device attached...
He was not home but his wife sent mental, cops were called by the neighbor.

Away she went on a 72 hour hold... away went his Mini-14.


The police had a dilemma in releasing his Mini....

Was it a brake & legal or was it a flash hider and he had manufactured and was in possession of an unregistered AW.




I helped him by scouring my resources and I found this piece of junk described as a flash boxer on some sites and as a muzzle brake on other sites.

He printed and presented all of the sites that called it a brake and offered to remove and dispose of it at their office.

LEO eventually released the rifle back to him.....




So in California.... who knows what it is......

[Mayor McRifle]

I'm going to build a featureless AR but realized that I probably won't be legally able to use my current upper on the gun as my current AR has the VG6 Epsilon Muzzle Brake which is also advertised as a flash hider.

Replace it with a VG6 Gamma.

[hermosabeach]

978.20 (b) - Flash Suppressor
This term was originally defined as “any device that reduces or conceals the visible light or flash created when a firearm is fired. This definition includes flash hiders, but does not include compensators and muzzle brakes (devices attached to or integral with the muzzle barrel to utilize propelling gasses for counter-recoil).” There were two primary problems with the definition when it was originally noticed to the public (December 31, 1999 through February 28, 2000). The most significant problem with the original definition was that it included and/or excluded particular devices by name (flash hider, muzzle brake, compensator) without consideration of whether the devices actually suppress flash. After further consideration prompted by public comments, the Department concluded that the absence of statutorily defined specific measurement standards or a statutory requirement to establish those standards demonstrates a legislative intent to identify any device that reduces or redirects flash from the shooter’s field of vision as a flash suppressor regardless of its name and intended/additional purpose. Thus, “flash hiders” are flash suppressors only if they reduce or redirect flash from the shooter’s field of vision. Conversely, “compensators” and “muzzle brakes” are not flash suppressors only if they do not reduce or redirect flash from the shooter’s field of vision. The revised definition is clearly consistent with the legislative intent of the statute as it neither includes nor excludes any particular device on the basis of its name only. Additionally, “conceals” in the original definition presented the possibility of an overly broad interpretation which could have included any device positioned between the shooter’s eye and the muzzle flash, such as the sights on a gun. To avoid such unintended interpretation, the word “conceals” was replaced with “redirects.” Accordingly, the original definition was changed to:

[hermosabeach]

“flash suppressor means any device that reduces or redirects muzzle flash from the shooter’s field of vision.”
This revised definition was noticed to the public during the first 15-day comment period (May 10 through May 30, 2000). Comments addressing this version of the definition prompted further reconsideration and revision. As such, the definition was revised a second time by replacing “ . . . that reduces or redirects muzzle flash . . . ” with “ . . . designed, intended, or that functions to reduce or redirect muzzle flash . . . ” This change was necessary because it became clear that flash suppressors are typically attached by twisting or screwing the device onto the threaded barrel of a firearm. Therefore, by simply making a half turn (180 degrees), an otherwise fully operational flash suppressor would not function as prescribed in the prior definition. The revised definition eliminates this potential loophole. Accordingly, this final revision “flash suppressor means any device designed, intended, or that functions to reduce or redirect muzzle flash from the shooter’s field of vision,” was noticed during the second 15-day comment period (July 12 through July 31, 2000). Although additional comments were received, no comments were received during the second 15-day comment period that resulted in substantial revision to the definition. However, the Department made a non-substantial revision by adding “perceptibly” to the phrase “reduce or redirect” to confirm that if a reduction or redirection of flash is so minuscule that it is imperceptible to the human eye, it could not reasonably be considered a reduction.

[hermosabeach]

Source

https://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/agweb/pdfs/firearms/regs/fsor.pdf

[langss]

So be safe, buy a Thread Protector....http://www.downrangeproductsco.com/...... Problem Solved. Forgo the look for the safety.

[OlderThanDirt]

Foregoing a muzzle brake for a thread protector for safety feels like foregoing underwear for Depends.

[HibikiR]

What are the physical differences between a flash hider and a muzzle brake / compensator?

I'm going to build a featureless AR but realized that I probably won't be legally able to use my current upper on the gun as my current AR has the VG6 Epsilon Muzzle Brake which is also advertised as a flash hider.

Three things I remember off the top of my head from the defunct featureless build guide.

Flash hiders have any, but not necessarily all, of the following:
1) The end of the device is much larger than the diameter of the projectile (Example: The A2 flash hider)
2) The end of the device has flash mitigating features (prongs or tines, Example The AAC Blackout flash hider, Griffin Armament M4SD Flash Comp)
3) The device has been advertised, not necessarily proven performance, as having flash reduction/redirecting/mitigating/etc. capability.

The last one is the worst part of it since overzealous advertisement will disqualify many products. The PWS FSC series can fall under this despite having a letter from the ATF saying they're not flash hiders.

I think Battlecomp is one of the few manufacturers that went all out in ensuring their products don't get trapped by #3.

[langss]

Foregoing a muzzle brake for a thread protector for safety feels like foregoing underwear for Depends.

I fully an uncompromisingly agree with you. "But" and this a really big "But" a reality that everyone needs to face up to. How much money is/are anyone willing to spend and hope to be right at the end of the day. I really like the way the Flash Hider looks..... but is it worth buying something to replace it, for any amount, that because some A-hole determined it was a flash hider not as advertised a comp/brake....and now I have legal fees as well ..... Na....thread protector for the right now for me..... you all are free to spend as your pocketbook will allow. Just my .02.

[therealnickb]

So be safe, buy a Thread Protector....http://www.downrangeproductsco.com/...... Problem Solved. Forgo the look for the safety.

I tried that on a 308. It jumped like hell. No thanks.

I went with a super comp.

[langss]

I tried that on a 308. It jumped like hell. No thanks.

I went with a super comp.

Of course they jump....its called recoil. You really think it makes upwards of $30+ worth of difference. I have 4 bolt guns in .223 and 5 in .308 they all jump. Its your money and I refuse to argue with anyone on how they chose to spend their money. I only offer a much less expensive alternative to possibly ending up in Violation after all. Its not quite as cut and dried as Fixed Stocks and Pistol Grips with a Fin. Its always your choice.

[mif_slim]

I tried that on a 308. It jumped like hell. No thanks.

For my none operating status rifles, I use TP. That goes with a lot of my rifles. Esp. My hunting ones. No earpro + MB = major tinnitus.

[therealnickb]

Of course they jump....its called recoil. You really think it makes upwards of $30+ worth of difference. I have 4 bolt guns in .223 and 5 in .308 they all jump. Its your money and I refuse to argue with anyone on how they chose to spend their money. I only offer a much less expensive alternative to possibly ending up in Violation after all. Its not quite as cut and dried as Fixed Stocks and Pistol Grips with a Fin. Its always your choice.

None of my 223 have or need a comp. None of my hunting rifles up to 300 wm have or need it either.

But the difference between running a compensator vs thread protector on my AR 10 was so great, I'll run the comp. (In my case the choice cost $100 and really is worth it to me.)

I'll worry about the regs if/when they ever become published and clear.