Gun muzzling during stagecoach "holdup"

[NorCal]

The one thing I don't understand about some of the posts is that this thread clearly seems to irritate some of the responders. If that applies to you, why do you keep clicking on it, that makes no sense? Are you masochists at heart? If you are bothered by this subject, just go away, don't click on it anymore, and leave this thread to those who wish to discuss the issue without being bent out of shape by the conversation.

So... you *do* only want responses that agree with you?

I agree with many of the responses here. The safety "rules" are realistically more actual guidelines which encourage safe firearm behavior. Obviously the "rules" are violated many, many times due to CCW or firing range circumstances; in addition to anytime you feel the need to clean your firearm.

I cannot imagine what possible solution you desired when calling the venue. Why not request future shows have no "firearms" at all? Simply the presence of a "firearm" might result in an accidental sweeping, right?

[CouchOperator]

Slightly off topic, however after working in a gun shop, its funny how comfortable you get with customers (usually new gun owners) pointing guns at your face without them realizing theyre doing it. While not acceptable, it was an inevitability

[oakdalecurtis]

NorCal, I have no issue with people who disagree with me, my wife does it all the time. I was asking about the apparent irritation in some of the posts, I didn't follow that. And I clearly posted a solution several times, the bandit was holding his pistol pointing toward the sky much of the time, until he decided to lower it and point it at our faces. There is no reason to do that as part of his act, he was doing fine, gun safety wise and robber effect wise by holding it skyward. Is that not a reasonable request and solution?

[CouchOperator]

NorCal, I have no issue with people who disagree with me, my wife does it all the time. I was asking about the apparent irritation in some of the posts, I didn't follow that. And I clearly posted a solution several times, the bandit was holding his pistol pointing toward the sky much of the time, until he decided to lower it and point it at our faces. There is no reason to do that as part of his act, he was doing fine, gun safety wise and robber effect wise by holding it skyward. Is that not a reasonable request and solution?

Typically if someone is committing a crime of profit, a speedy way for them to gain complaince is a show of force, such as pointing a gun at your face. Its part of the act.

Im gonna call and request they hand out UTM or Sim guns and have the people in the stagecoach fight back. Sign me up for that!

[quiet-wyatt]

I used to participate in Old West reenactments, and most of our shows occurred on a train. We would stage train robberies...

The events were always advertised as "Old West Train Robberies", along with advertising pics and description of events...

At one event that included the local newspaper, a man brought his young (about 8 years old) son on the clearly advertised "Old West Train Robbery"...

The news people took pictures of the man huddled with his son in the train's restroom, literally on his knees covering his son, to "protect him from the violence going on" during the robbery...

The newspaper then interviewed him and he expounded on the damage that this was inflicting on his son, and the dangerous gun mentality in this country...

Staged? It was pretty obvious - He deliberately brought his young son there so he could expose him to the "violence", and then complain about it...
Hypocrite...

[dat1callidude]

Smart kids good job with the training

[Lonestargrizzly]

I used to participate in Old West reenactments, and most of our shows occurred on a train. We would stage train robberies...

The events were always advertised as "Old West Train Robberies", along with advertising pics and description of events...

At one event that included the local newspaper, a man brought his young (about 8 years old) son on the clearly advertised "Old West Train Robbery"...

The news people took pictures of the man huddled with his son in the train's restroom, literally on his knees covering his son, to "protect him from the violence going on" during the robbery...

The newspaper then interviewed him and he expounded on the damage that this was inflicting on his son, and the dangerous gun mentality in this country...

Staged? It was pretty obvious - He deliberately brought his young son there so he could expose him to the "violence", and then complain about it...
Hypocrite...

Did you keep a record of whom whet themselves first?

[dieselpower]

I was told about a Martial arts Instructor who put on a show for the public by setting up a fake robbery in front of dozens of kids and parents. In that fake robbery for which no warning was given he shot and killed the bad guy in front of the crowd with a real gun using blanks, he also muzzle swept everyone in the process. This was in a Public Park. This Instructor was also implicated in the murder a homeless mentally retarded man who wandered into his Dojo and claimed he knew Kung-fu. A student-instructor beat the man to death with a stomp to the head when the man was knocked out.

Looking for the video now. Anyone with google-fu better than I can find it. There is video of the Dojo murder out there as well.

This would be worth complaining about. Not some live action tourist play you were a willing participant in.

[GM4spd]

I would guess that the show had a warning sign somewhere before you entered for "sensitive" folks.

This. Maybe just don't go to these type events.

[calif 15-22]

Dang OP tough crowd in here. For what it's worth I think all you did was mention it to the show operator. That's all. You didn't go get a News Crew, or throw a stink in front of everyone, or kill a dude in a dojo so kudos for that.
Coming here and posting also took some balls as this is a gun forum and we are all sand papered tough guys who tend to go against anyone who comments on guns in a "PC" manner (quiet down you know I'm right )

Anyway good luck and as someone above mentioned this thread has run it's course. 97% against saying anything, you and me 3% for saying something.

Carry on . . . Oh and here is the 10 pages of an empty unloaded known to be unloaded, no one handling it, unloaded, not pointing not down range during a cease fire with the slide open and empty and unloaded.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=1272497

[71MUSTY]

The one thing I don't understand about some of the posts is that this thread clearly seems to irritate some of the responders. If that applies to you, why do you keep clicking on it, that makes no sense? Are you masochists at heart? If you are bothered by this subject, just go away, don't click on it anymore, and leave this thread to those who wish to discuss the issue without being bent out of shape by the conversation.

"Don't like what I'm saying, then leave the thread" I love it. Are you sure your not RC?

[CouchOperator]

Dang OP tough crowd in here. false For what it's worth I think all you did was mention it to the show operator. he clearly stated he called to complain That's all. You didn't go get a News Crew, or throw a stink in front of everyone, or kill a dude in a dojo so kudos for that. sure, but one thing leads to another
Coming here and posting also took some balls as this is a gun forum and we are all sand papered tough guys who tend to go against anyone who comments on guns in a "PC" manner (quiet down you know I'm right ) Uh, no.... We just have a grasp on reality which OP clearly does not

Anyway good luck and as someone above mentioned this thread has run it's course. i beg to differ 97% against saying anything, you and me 3% for saying something. not sure if lame attempt at a subliminal 3% reference or not

Carry on . . . Oh and here is the 10 pages of an empty unloaded known to be unloaded, no one handling it, unloaded, not pointing not down range during a cease fire with the slide open and empty and unloaded.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s....php?t=1272497

*Ahem*

[r8dr rider]

Were you guys in Westworld? I want to go there so badly

[calif 15-22]

I was just curious how my fellow gunners might view this incident. I have taught my 8 and 11 year old grandsons how to handle firearms and how to shoot them. They began with a pellet gun and now shoot my .22 rifle at the range. They know the gun safety rules very well and can recite and demonstrate them to me easily. I had recently taken them to an "old west town" nearby with a stagecoach ride. During the stage ride, a "holdup bandit" stopped the coach, all in fun of course. The bad guy had a realistic engraved western revolver. He pointed it skyward during much of the "holdup", but several times he pointed at us in the coach too. If I were not with my grandsons, I probably wouldn't have thought much about it, I get it, it's acting. But BOTH my grandsons commented to me as we left the scene that the bandit should not have pointed his gun at us, even in a fake holdup. (they knew it was play acting too of course, but they also were taught that you don't point a gun at anything that you aren't prepared to shoot). I was surprised and proud of their correct and learned comment and told them so, and agreed with them. I waited a few days and called the owner of the stagecoach ride. I was very understanding and told him I got it, it's acting, but related to him my grandson's comments. He agreed! The owner also said he had heard that from others and had talked with the 'bandit" about it, but the bad guy forgets sometimes and uses his pistol like a finger to point at people in the coach. (The gun was also made nonfunctioning ) I told the owner that this was not a big deal and I did not want to get anyone in trouble, we really liked the ride. I just thought he should know what my grandkids said. Did I go too far?

*Ahem*

CouchOperator like every thread here on Calguns we typically get completely off track by page two or three. "Dudes killing homeless dudes in a dojo?) I re-quoted OPs original post. He just came asking "did I go too far". Many here said "yes" you went too far. I said I agree with OP.

In response to your bolded comments:
"false" - with regards to a tough crowd. It is a tough crowd in here.
"he clearly stated he called to complain" - Sounded like he called to convey his grandson's comments.
"Uh, no.... We just have a grasp on reality which OP clearly does not" - That seems like a stretch that OP doesn't have a grasp on reality just because his opinions differ.
"i beg to differ" - Of course that's what all these threads do.
"Not sure if lame attempt at a subliminal 3% reference or not" - THIS ONE BUGS ME! Are you insinuating that I'm doing a dig on the III%ers. You sir need to stand down on that one! The 3% was just a swag as it seems there were only 3 people in this thread that agreed with OP not some "subliminal message"

Let's not turn this into a pissing match. No additional posts are going to convince OP he was wrong, nor are they going to convince you he was right. That's the beauty of Gun Forums (or any internet forum). We argue and argue for pages and pages and no one's mind is EVER changed. I have been on Calguns since 2012 and I have yet to see one single thread where either side convinces the other side to change their mind. Not one thread!

So there you go. Did OP go to far? In my humble opinion, "No" he did not. He simply made a phone call and based on what was told to us, the call was cordial and apparently went quite well. Better than this thread is going.

[IVC]

Uh, no.... We just have a grasp on reality which OP clearly does not

The problem with such a statement is that you don't allow for different opinions. You assume that one side is "right" and the other side is "wrong." Further, those who are "wrong" are also stupid. That's not how discussion works.

I disagree with the majority in this thread and I agree with the OP. If you want to point something at the audience, it *cannot* be a gun. Make it a permanently inoperable prop and there is no problem with pointing at people. Keep it a functional firearm and point only in the safe direction. Those are the proper safety constraints and they are neither hard nor complicated to implement.

So, there are at least two possible solutions that take into account both the safety and realistic experience. Arguing that the show should be staged properly is far from stupid.

We can agree to disagree. I don't have a problem with people skimping on safety as long as it's their own. Different risk profiles for different folks (for example, under normal circumstances I won't wear bicycle helmet, ski helmet or rock climbing helmet, yet I will make my daughters wear them until they are 18).