Gun muzzling during stagecoach "holdup"

[200Apples]

"Safe" gunhandling practice has evolved.

Look at some of the early-'60s TV like The Rifleman, and you'll see all kinds of muzzle sweeping, finger-on-the-trigger, etc...

John Moses Browning, the creator of two of my favorite firearms, the Model 1892 and the Model of 1911, had his portrait taken with his finger in the trigger guard of one of his rifles.

Heyll, remember when sex was safe and cars were dangerous?

SWalt

Should have just explained to the grand kids its acting and should be realistic to give the patrons a taste of what a real hold up will be like. Then point out it didn't feel to good to have a gun pointed at them. Would reinforce the idea pointing a real gun at someone isn't a good thing.

Well said, Sir Walt.

:-)

[oakdalecurtis]

Your comments got me to thinking (I do that occasionally). I have been and taken the boys to civil war reenactments, wild west shootouts and staged gunfights, but never felt the way we did during the stagecoach holdup and I finally figured out why. Try this thought experiment. Ask someone you know to "play act" a strong arm robbery against you and your wife, child or grandchild. Hand them one of your handguns that you have checked 3 times to make sure it's unloaded. Tell them to come into the room you are in and stand 3 feet away from you. Then tell them to hold the gun up and then point it at you and your loved one's face, back and forth, with their finger on the trigger, while holding you up. I'm sure looking down the hole in pistol barrel 3 feet from your face as it moves from your face to your loved one's face wouldn't cause you the slightest angst or because, after all, 1- you know the gun isn't loaded, (you checked it), 2 - you know and trust the person holding the gun (you picked them), and 3 - you know it's all just play acting, right? Can you say honestly that looking down a barrel that's sweeping your faces wouldn't still cause you the slightest internal concerns? And in the stagecoach holdup, we did not have the benefit of surety on 2 out of 3 of those issues. That is why this holdup was not the same as any other we have experienced with play acting and guns involved. I hope this makes sense to some of the sensible in here, thanks. If not, oh well....

[PolishMike]

Really?

We have enough pressure to ban guns from everything. With friends like these...

[reverser]

I would guess that the show had a warning sign somewhere before you entered for "sensitive" folks.

[200Apples]

oakdalecurtis

wall of text

Dude, I thought we had agreed that SWalt's idea was the best way to go about this.

Now you're whining... and while we're at it, break up your posts so we can breathe.

[CouchOperator]

Your comments got me to thinking (I do that occasionally). I have been and taken the boys to civil war reenactments, wild west shootouts and staged gunfights, but never felt the way we did during the stagecoach holdup and I finally figured out why. Try this thought experiment. Ask someone you know to "play act" a strong arm robbery against you and your wife, child or grandchild. Hand them one of your handguns that you have checked 3 times to make sure it's unloaded. Tell them to come into the room you are in and stand 3 feet away from you. Then tell them to hold the gun up and then point it at you and your loved one's face, back and forth, with their finger on the trigger, while holding you up. I'm sure looking down the hole in pistol barrel 3 feet from your face as it moves from your face to your loved one's face wouldn't cause you the slightest angst or because, after all, 1- you know the gun isn't loaded, (you checked it), 2 - you know and trust the person holding the gun (you picked them), and 3 - you know it's all just play acting, right? Can you say honestly that looking down a barrel that's sweeping your faces wouldn't still cause you the slightest internal concerns? And in the stagecoach holdup, we did not have the benefit of surety on 2 out of 3 of those issues. That is why this holdup was not the same as any other we have experienced with play acting and guns involved. I hope this makes sense to some of the sensible in here, thanks. If not, oh well....

The sensible? We are sensible. We have a grasp on reality. Please dont ever bother taking a sims class, no school needs a lecture once actual rifles with blue bolts and blue glock slides start marking live people. Youd really have a heartattack watching that

[oakdalecurtis]

I would guess that the show had a warning sign somewhere before you entered for "sensitive" folks.

Lol, my wife would get a good laugh from that label being applied to me!

[CouchOperator]

Lol, my wife would get a good laugh from that label being applied to me!

Probably another case of At and not With

[Juhani]

"BOTH my grandsons commented to me as we left the scene that the bandit should not have pointed his gun at us, even in a fake holdup. (they knew it was play acting too of course, but they also were taught that you don't point a gun at anything that you aren't prepared to shoot)."

Your family is heavy on the PC.

[Mitch]

If the gun is permanently disabled it's a prop and not a firearm so it can be pointed at people. The uneasy feeling you get thinking it's a real gun is similar to the feeling you might get watching a video with a real gun pointed at the camera giving appearance it's pointed at you (we've had a thread about it recently).

If they fired the gun (as they used to do every day during shootouts at Knotts Berry Farm), it's a real gun, just with blank ammunition.

I don't think the OP went overboard in talking to the operators about it, as long as he didn't get excited. But I like SWalt's reply the best: kids should understand there is a standard of behavior to which they are held, and there can often be a different standard for other people in other situations. As long as the kids recognize that I don't think there is any problem.

It's the same with many, many other aspects of life. I don't think anyone here really would be happy if their own kids acted the same way celebrities do all the time on teevee and in magazines. But there they are, big as life. You simply make sure the kids know that just because someone else does something doesn't mean it's acceptable for the kids themselves to do the same thing.

That's why I could never get excited by stories that kids were sent home from school because they had a toy gun or something like that. As long as the parents made sure the kids understood they did not really do anything wrong, who cares what the teachers and school administrators think? Kids need to realize early that out in the real world, not everyone will agree with them on every subject, beginning with certain authority figures like teachers, politicians and celebrities.

[Lonestargrizzly]

How do your kids have nerf gun fights?

[Mitch]

How do your kids have nerf gun fights?

News flash: a Nerf gun isn't a real gun, or anything like a real gun.

[oakdalecurtis]

"BOTH my grandsons commented to me as we left the scene that the bandit should not have pointed his gun at us, even in a fake holdup. (they knew it was play acting too of course, but they also were taught that you don't point a gun at anything that you aren't prepared to shoot)."

Your family is heavy on the PC.

You missed the mark big time on that one. I'm a right of Reagan Republican lifetime NRA member with family members in the Trump administration. I just have smart grandsons well trained in gun safety.

[CouchOperator]

You missed the mark big time on that one. I'm a right of Reagan Republican lifetime NRA member with family members in the Trump administration. I just have smart grandsons well trained in gun safety.

Reagan also signed the Hughes Amendment, supported the Brady Act and the 1994 Federal Assault Weapons Ban, so....

[MotoFahren]

Your comments got me to thinking (I do that occasionally). I have been and taken the boys to civil war reenactments, wild west shootouts and staged gunfights, but never felt the way we did during the stagecoach holdup and I finally figured out why. Try this thought experiment. Ask someone you know to "play act" a strong arm robbery against you and your wife, child or grandchild. Hand them one of your handguns that you have checked 3 times to make sure it's unloaded. Tell them to come into the room you are in and stand 3 feet away from you. Then tell them to hold the gun up and then point it at you and your loved one's face, back and forth, with their finger on the trigger, while holding you up. I'm sure looking down the hole in pistol barrel 3 feet from your face as it moves from your face to your loved one's face wouldn't cause you the slightest angst or because, after all, 1- you know the gun isn't loaded, (you checked it), 2 - you know and trust the person holding the gun (you picked them), and 3 - you know it's all just play acting, right? Can you say honestly that looking down a barrel that's sweeping your faces wouldn't still cause you the slightest internal concerns? And in the stagecoach holdup, we did not have the benefit of surety on 2 out of 3 of those issues. That is why this holdup was not the same as any other we have experienced with play acting and guns involved. I hope this makes sense to some of the sensible in here, thanks. If not, oh well....

Your over emotional analogy doesn't hold up. You admitted the fact the guns on used on the stagecoach were rendered inoperable. This is a completely different situation than handing your friend an unloaded operable firearm.