CA DOJ illegally requiring upload of FFL-03 when renewing COE

[EM2]

I originally posted this in the Off Topic section as that seems to get more traffic, but thought y'all might be interested.

https://www.calguns.net/forum/general-discussion/the-off-topic-discussion-lounge/54379935-ca-doj-illegally-requiring-upload-of-ffl-03-when-renewing-coe#post54380122

OK, so recently I submitted my renewal for the Ca COE, and today I got an email that is requiring I upload into cfars my FFL-03.
I recall a year or two ago they requested my FFL-03 # via email, to which I successfully refused and my COE was renewed a day or two later.
This time they are quoting an irrelevant code section, making it sound criminal since they quote a code within the penal section.
I plan to again refuse and ask them to explain their action.

From: coe@doj.ca.gov
To: EM2
The California Department of Justice has received your electronic Certification of Eligibility (COE) application; however, it cannot be processed for the following reason(s):
• Pursuant to Penal Code section 27966, you must have a federal firearm license. If your FFL-03 is in progress with the ATF, wait until you've received it to upload it, then re-submit the existing CFARS COE application.

The FFL-03 should be uploaded using any available file type. Do not email, fax or mail it to the COE Unit.
The information requested should be submitted by logging into the CFARS application https://cfars.doj.ca.gov and navigating to Certificate of Eligibility and selecting "COE Transaction History". If you have any questions, please use the Report an Issue feature in the CFARS application.

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This communication with its contents may contain confidential and/or legally privileged information. It is solely for the use of the intended recipient(s). Unauthorized interception, review, use or disclosure is prohibited and may violate applicable laws including the Electronic Communications Privacy Act. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and destroy all copies of the communication.

[ARFrog]

"Pursuant to Penal Code section 27966, you must have a federal firearm license. If your FFL-03 is in progress with the ATF, wait until you've received it to upload it, then re-submit the existing CFARS COE application."

It would seem that the statement above is true insofar as a FFL-03 license is needed as part of a list of conditions necessary to purchase certain firearms without a federally licensed dealer. However, what in the code section listed could possibly be construed to say you need a FFL-03 to obtain a COE? Additionally, aren't COEs used to work at a firearms store, purchase ammunition, and other uses not having to do with purchasing antiques or curio firearms where a FFL-03 would be necessary?




California Code, Penal Code - PEN § 27966


Current as of January 01, 2023 | Updated by FindLaw Staff

If all of the following requirements are satisfied, Section 27545 shall not apply to the sale, loan, or transfer of a firearm:



(a) The firearm is not a handgun.

(b) The firearm is a curio or relic, as defined in Section 478.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations, or its successor.

(c) The person receiving the firearm has a current certificate of eligibility issued pursuant to Section 26710.

(d) The person receiving the firearm is licensed as a collector pursuant to Chapter 44 of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued thereto.

(e) Within 30 days of taking possession of the firearm, the person to whom it is transferred shall forward by prepaid mail, or deliver in person to the Department of Justice, a report that includes information concerning the individual taking possession of the firearm, how title was obtained and from whom, and a description of the firearm in question. The report forms that individuals complete pursuant to this section shall be provided to them by the department.

[EM2]

Yes, there are other COE types, many related to employment, as in working at an ffl or an ammo vendor, to which there is a requirement to provide employer information.
However, I am unable to find any requirement that we provide additional information for a collector COE.


I believe the code section 27966 is being used as a means to intimidate the applicant into providing the requested information.
I successfull lie will contain some truth, and since there is truth in in the statement "Pursuant to Penal Code section 27966, you must have a federal firearm license. " the lie is given credibility.

In case anyone is confused, this is the lie "however, it cannot be processed for the following reason(s):".

A careful reading of the email reveals they do not actually make a statement of the reason for not processing the application.

[SVT-40]

How is it "illegal" for California DOJ to request you upload a copy of your C&R FFL?

[IronsightsRifleman]

How is it "illegal" for California DOJ to request you upload a copy of your C&R FFL?

PC26710 states that any person may request a COE from DOJ, and it requires that DOJ issue a COE to anyone who is not prohibited from owning a firearm. Nothing in the law allows the DOJ to deny issuing a COE based on any other factor, including an applicant's C&R license status.

"The department shall issue a certificate to an applicant if the department's records indicate that the applicant is not a person who is prohibited by state or federal law from possessing firearms."

[OlderThanDirt]

Reading between the lines, it looks like the DOJ is making up a rule to facilitate easier tracking of subjects that possess an 03 FFL and COE. Gosh, I wonder why they would want such a list?

[EM2]

How is it "illegal" for California DOJ to request you upload a copy of your C&R FFL?

Not illegal for them to ASK.
It is not supported by law for them to REQUIRE.

[IronsightsRifleman]

DOJ's Live Scan fingerprinting requirement also seems to be excessive and might fail legal scrutiny. It's certainly not needed for the federal NICBC, so how does DOJ justify it?

[GunDog]

Read and understand the language that is used. The word "should" does not mean "will" or that something is "mandatory."

[Capybara]

My COE renews this month. I'm not sending them my FFL03, why would I? CADOJ can pound sand. Legislate it and put it into the PC clowns!

[EM2]

Read and understand the language that is used. The word "should" does not mean "will" or that something is "mandatory."

Yup, I agree... however... they are NOT processing my application, ergo, mandatory.

Certification of Eligibility (COE) application; however, it cannot be processed

[GunDog]

Yup, I agree... however... they are NOT processing my application, ergo, mandatory.

Certification of Eligibility (COE) application; however, it cannot be processed

California sleazeball Attorney General Rob Bonta and his band of corrupt bureaucrats has you over a barrel, eh? Sorry ba$tards!! My COE is due to expire in May. Like to see how this plays out. Good luck!

[flyer898]

When I applied for my COE, the DOJ asked for my 03 FFL. I asked them to cite authority for their request and I had my COE two days later. They did not ask again at renewal time.
I suggest that acceding to extra-legal demands emboldens them. And that does us no good.

[EM2]

California sleazeball Attorney General Rob Bonta and his band of corrupt bureaucrats has you over a barrel, eh? Sorry ba$tards!! My COE is due to expire in May. Like to see how this plays out. Good luck!

Thanks, I'll post back once this is resolved.

Until then, here is my email back to them...

CFARS,
Relevant portion of this email to which I am responding.
"The California Department of Justice has received your electronic Certification of Eligibility (COE) application; however, it cannot be processed for the following reason(s):
Pursuant to Penal Code section 27966, you must have a federal firearm license. If your FFL-03 is in progress with the ATF, wait until you've received it to upload it, then re-submit the existing CFARS COE application. "
This statement leads the reader to believe that if their FFL-03 is not uploaded to CFARS that their renewal application will be denied.
Please correct me if I am not understanding the intend of this email.

Penal Code section 27966 is not relevant to the 'application for renewal of a COE', this section relates to private party firearms transactions.

I believe you are looking for Cal. Code Regs. Tit. 11, § 4037 - Renewal of Certificate, within which I do not see any requirement to provide an FFL-03 documentation with the COE renewal application. Nor was this required upon my initial application a few years ago.

While filling out my renewal form I did not notice any requirement for additional information beyond uploading my driver's license.
In good faith I submittal all required information, and now it seems my application is being delayed without reason.

Doing my due diligence I reviewed the CFARS COE User Guide v1.5 and see that page 23 section 5.1.1 COE Business Types lists all of the types of COE available, but does not indicate any additional information requirement beyond checking the appropriate box. (Only where employment is concerned is there a requirement to manage employment details).

Are you stating that an application for collector COE renewal will be denied if the FFL-03 is not uploaded?

I am interested to see the relevant documented requirement that the FFL-03 be provided as a condition of approval for a collector COE application.

Please continue to process my COE renewal application.

Respectfully,
EM2

[Librarian]

My COE renews this month. I'm not sending them my FFL03, why would I? CADOJ can pound sand. Legislate it and put it into the PC clowns!

That's what they should do.

CA DOJ has evidently told its employees to hold firm.

CRPA has been advised; looks like an 'underground regulation' but DOJ is unlikely to bend until sued.