Best gun oil?!

[STAGE 2]

I have honestly never understood the whole motor oil/ATF thing. The only way I can figure it is that people want to save a few bucks. If thats your wish then have a ball. However being cheaper is not the same thing as being better and there are a whole hosts of reasons why motor oil is a poor substitute for gun lube. You don't even have to be a chemist to figure it out.

A engine is a closed system, is filtered, and its main culprit is heat. A firearm is an open system, is not filtered and its main culprit is debris. An oil formulated for the former is not going to be optimal for the latter, or even adequate for that matter.

Add to this the fact that many modern oils contain detergents and other additives that have won't help and may even harm your pistol and there isn't any reason to use it.

If you are going to spend thousands on an AR or some race gun why cheap out on oil. You wouldn't buy a ferarri and put regular in it.

[Pugster]

TW-25B goes in my Sig and ARs. It's great stuff.

[saki302]

Since I tried Militec-1, I stopped using CLP except in a pinch.
The M-1 stays where you put it, and protects from rust better (in my experience). The Militec gets wiped over every blued surface on my guns. Nothing fancy or snake oil-ish about it, it's just a nice oil that works.

On areas with friction, i.e. slide/frame, hammer/slide, trigger parts, etc (and locking lugs in the case of the DE), I would use grease. A good synthetic grease, or even wheel bearing grease works great- stays where you put it, lasts forever. The only time oil is better than grease is if it's sub zero outside- not an issue in CA.

For cleaning- pistols = MPro7. Doesn't stink, eats up powder residue. For Thorough cleaning or rifles, Butch's Bore Shine.

-Dave

[Josh]

I have honestly never understood the whole motor oil/ATF thing. The only way I can figure it is that people want to save a few bucks. If thats your wish then have a ball. However being cheaper is not the same thing as being better and there are a whole hosts of reasons why motor oil is a poor substitute for gun lube. You don't even have to be a chemist to figure it out.

A engine is a closed system, is filtered, and its main culprit is heat. A firearm is an open system, is not filtered and its main culprit is debris. An oil formulated for the former is not going to be optimal for the latter, or even adequate for that matter.

Add to this the fact that many modern oils contain detergents and other additives that have won't help and may even harm your pistol and there isn't any reason to use it.

If you are going to spend thousands on an AR or some race gun why cheap out on oil. You wouldn't buy a ferarri and put regular in it.

Nothing in the additive packages they add to motor oil or ATF will harm a gun.

Also the primary function of motor oil is to prevent metal to metal contact and lubricate moving parts. Secondary is to keep its viscosity consistent under temperature changes and keep the internals clean. The addative packages keep carbon off parts, reduce acidity, reduce wear during initial start up and under severe pressure conditions.

viscosity, shear forces and oil weight are the same no matter the application.

Yes they filter motor oil but thats because the environment inside an engine is harsh and with the small clearances and passages, one small fleck of metal will begin to destroy parts. It has nothing to do with the oils abilities or inability to protect parts from wear.

It is not a poor substitute.

I have yet to hear any substantial proof as to why a 10wt oil that can withstand the shear forces inside an engine will not work on or even damage a firearm. All of these oils start from the same base stocks only the addative packages change.

What exactly do these gun specific oils contain that make them so far superior to any other oils? FYI, Miltec-1 was initially marketed as an ATF addative.

I have been using leftover motor oil and wheel bearing grease with a ngli rating of 2 for years and have yet to see any adverse wear on any of my firearms.

[otteray]

In fact - why don't you read the exact information that you requested I search for, as I have linked it below...it is described as a bore cleaner - NOT a lubricant. This follows exactly with what I said about ATF being a heavy detergent.

http://www.majorsgunclub.org/edsred.html

Why don't you reread the information that you may have overlooked:
From http://www.majorsgunclub.org/edsred.html :

I recommend diverting a small quantity, up to 4 ozs. per quart of the 50-50 ATF/kerosene mix for use as an "ER-compatible" gun oil. This can be done without impairing the effectiveness of the mix.

[Shenaniguns]

Glide Slide, by Brian Enos. For a shooter by a shooter.
Comes in different weights. It is a great lube/grease.

Slide Glide is also fantastic and I recommend this as well

[Shenaniguns]

weapons shield or fp-10 as it's known to some... leaves a film once oil dries. great lube, but you'll need the kit for protection against the elements.

Weaponshield is an improved version of the original formula of FP-10 which is not the cheapened current version of FP-10.

[Colt]

I clean with MPro-7 cleaner. I like Gun Butter a lot for lube, but the last year or so I've been using Militec, and it's fantastic. Militec actually soaks into the "pores" of the metal when the metal heats up. For those in dusty, sandy areas, Militec can be wiped dry and still protect the weapon. It seems pricey, but it isn't really, because a little goes a very long way.

[STAGE 2]

Nothing in the additive packages they add to motor oil or ATF will harm a gun.

Depends on the particular gun and finish and the particular oil in question. Is it a certianty that motor oil will adversely affect a gun, no. However is it a certianty that there are additives in motor oil that serve no purpose for use in a gun, yes.

Also the primary function of motor oil is to prevent metal to metal contact and lubricate moving parts. Secondary is to keep its viscosity consistent under temperature changes and keep the internals clean. The addative packages keep carbon off parts, reduce acidity, reduce wear during initial start up and under severe pressure conditions.

Not entirely true. Again, if you fail to properly lubricate an engine, it will sieze because of heat, not because of fouling. A firearm is just the opposite. It will jam because of fouling and not because of heat.

viscosity, shear forces and oil weight are the same no matter the application.

NO they aren't.

Yes they filter motor oil but thats because the environment inside an engine is harsh and with the small clearances and passages, one small fleck of metal will begin to destroy parts. It has nothing to do with the oils abilities or inability to protect parts from wear.

Dude, that makes all the differnce in the world. With an engine, I can throw quarts of oil at the necessary areas, constantly have it move, filter it and have it flow everywhere. A firearm requires just the opposite. The oil CANNOT fly everywhere. It needs to stay in one spot and maintain it lubricity while containing contaminates.

I have yet to hear any substantial proof as to why a 10wt oil that can withstand the shear forces inside an engine will not work on or even damage a firearm. All of these oils start from the same base stocks only the addative packages change.

Because the argument isn't about shear force. Nor is the argument that motor oil will never work. The argument is that oil formulated for firearms will work better under adverse conditions than oil formulated for other things.

To put it another way, you are saying a helmet is a helmet is a helmet. What works for football should work for motorcycle riders. Will a football helmet protect you if you fall off a bike, sure. Will it do the job as well as dot approved helment, no. Will you ever know the difference if you don't fall, no.

What exactly do these gun specific oils contain that make them so far superior to any other oils? FYI, Miltec-1 was initially marketed as an ATF addative.

Well if you really want to get into the chemistry I suggest you contact George Fennell, the creator of FP-10 and weaponshield. He'll talk your ear off about the chemical aspects and why motor oil is a poor substitute.

However suffice it to say that the main differences in the chemical composition is that gun oil is designed to stay put and function dirty while motor oil is designed to run and requires filtering.

I have been using leftover motor oil and wheel bearing grease with a ngli rating of 2 for years and have yet to see any adverse wear on any of my firearms.

Irrelevant argument. Plenty of people have drive ford pintos with no problems. This doesn't change the fact that its a crappy car. Plenty of people worked with asbestos with no ill effects. That doesn't mean its not dangerous. Lots of people like yourself use motor oil with no ill effects. That doesn't mean its as good as gun oil. Most firearms I own I can shoot bone dry with no problems. Using your logic I could say that gun oil is totally unnecessary but we both know its not.

Again, for most people, with most modern guns, ANY kind of oil will work because these later firearms are very tolerant of neglect. Most people also don't shoot their firearms enough to where the difference will arise. But again, because you don't see it doesn't mean its not there.

[otteray]

Ed Harris, longtime firearms expert and re-inventor of Col. Julius Hatchers original formula would probably talk George Fennell's ear off, too.
I've been using Ed's Red 50/50 ATF/kerosene for years. It has worked great for me on late 1800's leveractions; WWII Garands, and the M1 Carbine; revolvers old and new; shotguns and my semiauto pistols.
I use RemOil, and other modern hi-tech lubes, too. I think it's great to have so many to choose from.
They all work great but Ed's Red lube is also effective and cheaper by far. Gallons for a few bucks!
Some people still put premium gasoline in their tanks 'cause of the hype.
I'm just a "regular gas" guy.

[bohoki]

with the desert eagle i would use a thin oil like the spray on rem oil between shootings use some break free collector on the innards

[MT1]

Why don't you reread the information that you may have overlooked:
From http://www.majorsgunclub.org/edsred.html :

I recommend diverting a small quantity, up to 4 ozs. per quart of the 50-50 ATF/kerosene mix for use as an "ER-compatible" gun oil. This can be done without impairing the effectiveness of the mix.

Guess I missed that line - still does not make it right. If you do some reading on lubricants you will start to realize what I am pointing out, that the best protection for metal to metal contact is to have an oil that will permeate into the pores of the metal and have a high shear strength. ATF will do neither of these because it is filled with detergents. I am willing to bet that household canola oil would do a better job for this application.

[PTL]

i really like M-Pro 7

[otteray]

Guess I missed that line - still does not make it right. If you do some reading on lubricants you will start to realize what I am pointing out, that the best protection for metal to metal contact is to have an oil that will permeate into the pores of the metal and have a high shear strength. ATF will do neither of these because it is filled with detergents. I am willing to bet that household canola oil would do a better job for this application.

Okay. Canola.
Although, I'll take Harris' recommendation and my many years of blissful ignorance; rust and trouble free, while successfully using his 50/50 product, instead.

[Josh]

...

Thats a very long reply.

But you didnt answer as to how a gun oil is better or worse then motor oil. Or how it will harm a gun as you claimed.

If a certain application needs a range of viscosity, oil wt, etc... to prevent or reduce metal wear. Then what difference does it make what the oil is labeled as if it meets those criteria.

Also an engine fails form heat due to friction, clearances shrink and things begin to gall. Low oil pressure from poor flow due to clogged passages or small derbies embedding into bearings will cause damage. Motor oil is designed to absorb and contain contaminants that get into the system from blow by or by design such as valve seals. That contaminant still needs to travel through the rest of the system before being filtered out.

And except for anti foaming agents, everything else pretty much will help in the enviorment of a firearm, from high pressure agents that bond to the surface and prevent wear, corrosion inhibitors to dispersents that keep contaminats suspended and out of contact with the metal or from coagulating.

Like i said before all these oils are from the same base stocks and just the additives change and not that much usually in jsut the percentages they are added. The largest difference in some gun oils is the addition of PTFE which they do not use in automotive oil anymore due to it clogging systems.

Also i try not to talk to the guy that has a personal stake in the company producing the product when wondering if i should buy his stuff.

I have formed my opinions based on direct observation of my own and others firearms that have used the same methods, talking with engineers that work with lubricants and hydraulics, as well as LE instructors that put around 10k+ rounds a year through their various guns and been to a few armorer schools and witnessed what has worked.

Using gun oil will not damage anything nor will using almost any other type of oil as long as you use it. The only difference is in your wallet. If you feel better using an oil marketed for firearms then by all means continue to do so. Just dont go around saying using another oil will be detrimental when there is no quantitative proof to say other wise. Some oils may be better suited at preventing corrosion or cleaning the gun but as far as lubrication goes its pretty much going to be the same.

In reality it doesnt matter what you use as long as you use it.