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Concealed Carry Discussion General discussion regarding CCW/LTC in California

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  #1  
Old 09-15-2021, 7:26 AM
sternum888 sternum888 is offline
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Default CCW droppingoff/ picking up kids in school?

Im a CCW license holder and my kids go to private school. I know its illegal to carry in school. I always dont carry when im dropping off/ picking my kids. Is there a legal way to carry for dropping off/ picking up my kids in school? TIA


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  #2  
Old 09-15-2021, 7:44 AM
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Nope, at least not on school grounds.

Either you drop them off across the street from school or unload/lock handgun & ammo and then drive onto campus (revolver would be ideal for this case).
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Old 09-15-2021, 8:56 AM
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Not on the school's property. You'll have to drop off/pick up, just off school grounds.
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Old 09-15-2021, 9:18 AM
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Gun must be unloaded and ammo and gun must be in a locked container. If you carry a revolver with moonclips this is extremely simple to accomplish. You can unload, case, and lock the gun in seconds without even looking - safely - and just as easily reverse it when you pull off school grounds.

otherwise, drop them off and pick them up at the curb
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Old 09-17-2021, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by sternum888 View Post
Im a CCW license holder and my kids go to private school. I know its illegal to carry in school. I always dont carry when im dropping off/ picking my kids. Is there a legal way to carry for dropping off/ picking up my kids in school? TIA
Under CA Gun Free School Zone laws...
Before you can legally be on school property:
1. All firearms must be unloaded and in a locked container or in the vehicle's locked trunk. [PC 626.9(c)(2)]
2. All ammunition must be in a locked container inside a vehicle or in a vehicle's locked trunk. [PC 626.91 and 30310(b)(10)]
There is no exemption to this for a person with a valid CA CCW permit.
~Being on school property includes being in your vehicle while it is on school property (driveway, parking lot, etc).

A person with a valid CA CCW permit can legally carry/possess the handguns listed on their permit while within the 1000' zone of a school, but can not legally carry while on school property. [PC 626.9(c)(5)]
^This person can be on the public street next to school property, on foot or in a vehicle, and still be able to legally carry.

Under CA criminal storage of firearm laws...
If you leave your vehicle with your handgun in it, your handgun must be in a locked container that is hidden from plain sight or in a hidden from plain sight locked container that is permanently affixed to the vehicle's interior or in the vehicle's locked trunk. [PC 25140(a)]
There is no exemption to this for a person with a valid CA CCW permit.

Therefore, as a valid CA CCW permit holder...

Before you can legally drive on to school property, you must unload your handgun and put it in a locked container.
In addition, you must place all of your ammo in a locked container that is inside your vehicle.
Before you exit the vehicle, the locked container must be hidden from plain sight or be in the vehicle's locked trunk.



Penal Code 626.9
(b) Any person who possesses a firearm in a place that the person knows, or reasonably should know, is a school zone, as defined in paragraph (4) of subdivision (e), shall be punished as specified in subdivision (f).
(c) Subdivision (b) does not apply to the possession of a firearm under any of the following circumstances:
(2) When the firearm is an unloaded pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed on the person and is in a locked container or within the locked trunk of a motor vehicle.
This section does not prohibit or limit the otherwise lawful transportation of any other firearm, other than a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed on the person, in accordance with state law.
(5) When the person holds a valid license to carry the firearm pursuant to Chapter 4 (commencing with Section 26150) of Division 5 of Title 4 of Part 6, who is carrying that firearm in an area that is not in, or on the grounds of, a public or private school providing instruction in kindergarten or grades 1 to 12, inclusive, but within a distance of 1,000 feet from the grounds of the public or private school.

Penal Code 626.91
Possession of ammunition on school grounds is governed by Section 30310.

Penal Code 30310
(a) Unless it is with the written permission of the school district superintendent, the superintendent’s designee, or equivalent school authority, no person shall carry ammunition or reloaded ammunition onto school grounds, except sworn law enforcement officers acting within the scope of their duties.
(b) This section shall not apply to any of the following:
(10)(A) A person carrying ammunition or reloaded ammunition onto school grounds that is in a motor vehicle at all times and is within a locked container or within the locked trunk of the vehicle.
(B) For purposes of this paragraph, the term “locked container” has the same meaning as set forth in Section 16850.

Penal Code 25140
(a) Except as otherwise provided in subdivision (b), a person shall, when leaving a handgun in an unattended vehicle, lock the handgun in the vehicle’s trunk, lock the handgun in a locked container and place the container out of plain view, lock the handgun in a locked container that is permanently affixed to the vehicle’s interior and not in plain view, or lock the handgun in a locked toolbox or utility box.
(d)(1) As used in this section, the following definitions shall apply:
(A) “Locked container” means a secure container that is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, keylock, combination lock, or similar locking device. The term “locked container” does not include the utility or glove compartment of a motor vehicle.
(B) “Locked toolbox or utility box” means a fully enclosed container that is permanently affixed to the bed of a pickup truck or vehicle that does not contain a trunk, and is locked by a padlock, keylock, combination lock, or other similar locking device.
(D) “Trunk” means the fully enclosed and locked main storage or luggage compartment of a vehicle that is not accessible from the passenger compartment. A trunk does not include the rear of a hatchback, station wagon, or sport utility vehicle, any compartment which has a window, or a toolbox or utility box attached to the bed of a pickup truck.
(E) “Vehicle” has the same meaning as specified in Section 670 of the Vehicle Code.
(2) For purposes of this section, a vehicle is unattended when a person who is lawfully carrying or transporting a handgun in a vehicle is not within close enough proximity to the vehicle to reasonably prevent unauthorized access to the vehicle or its contents.
(3) For purposes of this section, plain view includes any area of the vehicle that is visible by peering through the windows of the vehicle, including windows that are tinted, with or without illumination.
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Last edited by Quiet; 09-17-2021 at 11:35 AM..
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Old 09-20-2021, 3:47 PM
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My child's school actively encourages the parents of older kids to pick up "off-campus" - it reduces the traffic jam at the school. This has an unfortunate consequence for me, as our designated pick up spot is now in the Tractor Supply parking lot!.
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Old 09-21-2021, 6:53 PM
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I’m so glad these gun free school laws are protecting our children here in California. Thank goodness those laws keep the bad guys from using and/or carrying guns within school zones or on school grounds.

I ❤️ California.
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Old 09-22-2021, 12:35 PM
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The 1000 ft rule- would this rule apply to off-hour sports practices/games?

My daughter has routine soccer gigs that are held in the main field adjacent to school grounds. It's not within the school campus but it's pretty dang close to it.
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Old 09-22-2021, 12:54 PM
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CCW holders are exempt from the 1000ft rule (you can drop of your kids across the street from school unarmed) as long as you’re not on school grounds.

Some events may be an extension of school grounds. Not sure but I didn’t see it in Quiet’s post above.
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Old 09-24-2021, 3:52 PM
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Just stay on the street when dropping the kids off; and don't tell people or flash your ccw and shouldn't have issues.

Most school resource officers don't go crazy proactive with parents or there would be a lot of parents arrested.

When I worked as a school resource officer crazy the number of knives that parents have on school grounds and those are felonies but very rarely ever charged or action taken.
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Old 09-25-2021, 6:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benjamin101677 View Post
Just stay on the street when dropping the kids off; and don't tell people or flash your ccw and shouldn't have issues.

Most school resource officers don't go crazy proactive with parents or there would be a lot of parents arrested.

When I worked as a school resource officer crazy the number of knives that parents have on school grounds and those are felonies but very rarely ever charged or action taken.
This really depends on where your at.
In Bakersfield we hand out guns to parents when you are picking up your kids if you need to go inside campus.
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Old 09-25-2021, 6:55 AM
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Originally Posted by benjamin101677 View Post
When I worked as a school resource officer crazy the number of knives that parents have on school grounds and those are felonies but very rarely ever charged or action taken.
CA laws only prohibits knives with a blade length of 2.5" or greater on school grounds. [PC 626.10(a)]
^People with permission from the school [PC 626.10(c)] and school employees [PC 626.10(d)] are exempt from this.

If the knife has a blade length of less than 2.5", then there are no Federal or CA laws/regulations that makes it illegal to possess that knife on school grounds.
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Old 09-25-2021, 7:06 AM
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We just had a lockdown at an elementary school by me last week because an off duty officer accidentally had their firearm exposed. Local PD came and cleared them but it turned into a S!!!show because parents were freaking out. Nearly all thought it was illegal even for off duty to carry, some even thought it would be a good idea to ban officers from carrying altogether, crazy.
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Old 09-26-2021, 8:28 PM
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Originally Posted by tnlrat37 View Post
We just had a lockdown at an elementary school by me last week because an off duty officer accidentally had their firearm exposed. Local PD came and cleared them but it turned into a S!!!show because parents were freaking out. Nearly all thought it was illegal even for off duty to carry, some even thought it would be a good idea to ban officers from carrying altogether, crazy.
The level of brainwashing and indoctrination required to get a person to think that an off duty LEO should not be allowed to carry, is absolutely astounding.

You do gotta hand it to the left with regards to how adept they are at mental manipulation.
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Old 09-27-2021, 7:19 PM
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So if I understand these laws correctly, you can unload your CCW revolver and place it in a locked trunk while working at the school and it’s ok?
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Old 09-28-2021, 2:09 PM
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So if I understand these laws correctly, you can unload your CCW revolver and place it in a locked trunk while working at the school and it’s ok?
Yes, revolver/semi, unloaded and in locked trunk.

I placed mine inside a locked container that is bolted to the frame of my car. I did this to make it a little more difficult for the smashed/grabbed thieves. The car also has an alarm, again, a little harder for the thieves.
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Old 09-28-2021, 5:02 PM
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Originally Posted by LoadedM333 View Post
Yes, revolver/semi, unloaded and in locked trunk.

I placed mine inside a locked container that is bolted to the frame of my car. I did this to make it a little more difficult for the smashed/grabbed thieves. The car also has an alarm, again, a little harder for the thieves.
Locked container must be permanently attached to the vehicle anyways, I believe.
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Old 09-28-2021, 5:54 PM
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Default CCW droppingoff/ picking up kids in school?

Quote:
Originally Posted by seaweedsoyboy View Post
Locked container must be permanently attached to the vehicle anyways, I believe.

I meant my locked container is bolted down inside the locked trunk.

The law does not require to have a locked container nor permanently attached inside locked trunk the way I understand it. Check the post by Quiet.

I just wanted a little extra.


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Old 09-28-2021, 6:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoadedM333 View Post
I meant my locked container is bolted down inside the locked trunk.

The law does not require to have a locked container nor permanently attached inside locked trunk the way I understand it. Check the post by Quiet.

I just wanted a little extra.


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Right, sorry. The permanently affixed locked container only applies if your vehicle is unattended.
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Old 09-28-2021, 7:38 PM
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Originally Posted by seaweedsoyboy View Post
Right, sorry. The permanently affixed locked container only applies if your vehicle is unattended.

No worries, the laws are convoluted IMHO. To understand the PCs and follow them correctly required interpretation by attorney.


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Old 09-29-2021, 4:41 PM
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Originally Posted by markvargas1 View Post
The 1000 ft rule- would this rule apply to off-hour sports practices/games?

My daughter has routine soccer gigs that are held in the main field adjacent to school grounds. It's not within the school campus but it's pretty dang close to it.
The prohibition is carry on the grounds. The 1,000 ft rule exempts CCW holders.

CA PEN 626.9(c)(5)
Quote:
626.9.
(a) This section shall be known, and may be cited, as the Gun-Free School Zone Act of 1995.

(b) Any person who possesses a firearm in a place that the person knows, or reasonably should know, is a school zone, as defined in paragraph (4) of subdivision (e), shall be punished as specified in subdivision (f).

(c) Subdivision (b) does not apply to the possession of a firearm under any of the following circumstances:

(5) When the person holds a valid license to carry the firearm pursuant to Chapter 4 (commencing with Section 26150) of Division 5 of Title 4 of Part 6, who is carrying that firearm in an area that is not in, or on the grounds of, a public or private school providing instruction in kindergarten or grades 1 to 12, inclusive, but within a distance of 1,000 feet from the grounds of the public or private school.
Note, this is ONLY K-12. Colleges and Universities have more restrictive rules under subdivisions (h) and (i).

ETA: In case anyone is confused, "school grounds" outside of school hours are still school grounds. So, if soccer games or community fairs or church services are conducted on the weekends on school grounds, you still cannot carry there.
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Last edited by Dvrjon; 09-29-2021 at 5:10 PM..
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Old 09-29-2021, 5:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seaweedsoyboy View Post
Locked container must be permanently attached to the vehicle anyways, I believe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoadedM333 View Post
I meant my locked container is bolted down inside the locked trunk.

The law does not require to have a locked container nor permanently attached inside locked trunk the way I understand it. Check the post by Quiet.

I just wanted a little extra.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by seaweedsoyboy View Post
Right, sorry. The permanently affixed locked container only applies if your vehicle is unattended.
"Permanently affixed" is not always required when the vehicle is unattended. Simply locking the gun in a briefcase and putting a jacket over it fulfills the letter of the law. Gun containers slid under the seat (with or without cable tethers) meet the requirements. The problem addressed by this statute was LEOs leaving their briefcase on the back seat with a firearm in it. The next morning, the window, briefcase and gun were gone.

Quote:
CA PEN 25140 (a) Except as otherwise provided in subdivision (b), a person shall, when leaving a handgun in an unattended vehicle, lock the handgun in the vehicle’s trunk, lock the handgun in a locked container and place the container out of plain view, lock the handgun in a locked container that is permanently affixed to the vehicle’s interior and not in plain view, or lock the handgun in a locked toolbox or utility box.
(d)(1) As used in this section, the following definitions shall apply:
(A) “Locked container” means a secure container that is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, keylock, combination lock, or similar locking device. The term “locked container” does not include the utility or glove compartment of a motor vehicle.
(B) “Locked toolbox or utility box” means a fully enclosed container that is permanently affixed to the bed of a pickup truck or vehicle that does not contain a trunk, and is locked by a padlock, keylock, combination lock, or other similar locking device.
[...]
(D) “Trunk” means the fully enclosed and locked main storage or luggage compartment of a vehicle that is not accessible from the passenger compartment. A trunk does not include the rear of a hatchback, station wagon, or sport utility vehicle, any compartment which has a window, or a toolbox or utility box attached to the bed of a pickup truck.
It's also important to note that transport rules are not storage rules. Transport rules require the guns to be unloaded.

Also, in the case of leaving the gun in an unattended vehicle (except on school grounds) the gun doesn't have to be unloaded.
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Last edited by Dvrjon; 09-29-2021 at 5:11 PM..
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Old 10-08-2021, 10:04 AM
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I've been carrying for 28 years now, and its called concealed for a arisen. My theory is if a school shooting goes down, then you are prepared to deal with it. You know the old saying, " I would rather be judged by 12 then carried by 6." But that's just my opion.
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