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  #1  
Old 04-19-2021, 9:37 PM
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kananaios kananaios is offline
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Default Colt US Army 1909 - Newbie Questions

Hi there! First time posting.

I'd like to know more about this 1909 I picked up. Thought it was cool since it was chambered in 45 and it looks old and nostalgic. Little did I know this is quite the historical find (not rare, but charming all the same to me).

Based on what I can find out from Colt, it was a New Service/New Service Target Model 1909 manufactured in 1911. I'm assuming mine is the New Service since it has "United States Property" stamped on the bottom. I noticed that the grips are probably not original because 1909s apparently had "RAC" stamped on the bottom of the grips. Also, the stamp on the upper right side of the frame (next to cylinder) is hard to make out. Most other 1909s had FB stamped in the same spot so does anyone know what this mark means?

It looks quite crummy, so I'd like some advice on how to clean it up nice. I know enough to NOT attempt to have it re-blued as that severely decreases the value. Maybe some gentle and effective solutions that y'all have used on antiques in the past?

Also, if anyone knows a better/more accurate serial lookup for this, I'd like to know. Thanks, Calgunners!
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  #2  
Old 04-20-2021, 7:07 AM
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Nice find. The Model 1909 was a stopgap measure that was primarily adopted for use in the Philippines. 21,933 of them were manufactured between 1909 and 1911. Standard grips were smooth walnut and the metal finish was blued. The initials "RAC" are for Rinaldo A. Carr a sub inspector at Colt at the time and "WGP" are the final acceptance initials from Major Walter G. Penfield, US Army his inspection initials appear on M1909 revolvers serial numbers 42811 through 49503.

The serial numbers on the crane, frame and butt should match on Army issued guns. On US Navy and USMC guns, Colt's serial number is located on the frame and crane only. On those guns there are special numbers found on the butt (USN 1-1000, USMC 1000-1300).

After the adoption of the 1911 pistol they were phased out of service with the armed forces and many were given to various government agencies including the Post Office and US consulates.


Where #49446 was issued does not come up on my data base.
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Last edited by highpower; 04-20-2021 at 7:18 AM..
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  #3  
Old 04-20-2021, 7:11 AM
Wyatt Burp Wyatt Burp is online now
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Fairly scarce gun. You're right about the grips, though these are more interesting than the smooth wood ones usually on it. I lettered my 1930 New Service .45 Colt but Colt found no info on it and returned my $100. I just tried it again because Colt has sometimes found shipping info on guns on a second try. Still waiting. I want to verify the nickel finish is real...or isn't. And yeah, you're right. Never refinish your gun.

Last edited by Wyatt Burp; 04-20-2021 at 5:35 PM..
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Old 04-20-2021, 7:55 AM
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I have a couple of NS Colts. My prize is a M1917 that I picked up from a friend a few years back. It's an early one with a four digit US serial number. Interesting thing about these is that there are actually three sets of numbers on them. There is the six digit Colt serial number on the frame and crane, then there is an assembly number on the frame crane and cylinder and finally there is the US government serial number on the butt.

My other New Service is one of the guns that Colt built out of leftover M1909 parts in the early 1930's as part of a parts cleanup.

On a rather sad note, I found an original Model 1909 Colt the other day that someone had cut the barrel down and then installed a really ugly front sight dovetailed into the barrel





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Old 04-20-2021, 8:48 AM
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What id do it strip it as far as you can. As in Dont clear any staked screws. And boil it in water to convert any red rust into black rust. And get any built up oil and gunk loose and then use 0000 steel wool to “buff” or card off the loose stuff now. You have stabilized it and passive Ted the rust and as long as it’s cleaned and oiled shouldn’t rust further or gain “patina” which is just oiled rust
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Old 04-20-2021, 9:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kananaios View Post
Hi there! First time posting.

I'd like to know more about this 1909 I picked up. Thought it was cool since it was chambered in 45 and it looks old and nostalgic. Little did I know this is quite the historical find (not rare, but charming all the same to me).

Based on what I can find out from Colt, it was a New Service/New Service Target Model 1909 manufactured in 1911. I'm assuming mine is the New Service since it has "United States Property" stamped on the bottom. I noticed that the grips are probably not original because 1909s apparently had "RAC" stamped on the bottom of the grips. Also, the stamp on the upper right side of the frame (next to cylinder) is hard to make out. Most other 1909s had FB stamped in the same spot so does anyone know what this mark means?

It looks quite crummy, so I'd like some advice on how to clean it up nice. I know enough to NOT attempt to have it re-blued as that severely decreases the value. Maybe some gentle and effective solutions that y'all have used on antiques in the past?

Also, if anyone knows a better/more accurate serial lookup for this, I'd like to know. Thanks, Calgunners!
I would suggest posting on the Colt Forum:

https://www.coltforum.com/forums/
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  #7  
Old 04-20-2021, 10:42 AM
Wyatt Burp Wyatt Burp is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by highpower View Post
I have a couple of NS Colts. My prize is a M1917 that I picked up from a friend a few years back. It's an early one with a four digit US serial number. Interesting thing about these is that there are actually three sets of numbers on them. There is the six digit Colt serial number on the frame and crane, then there is an assembly number on the frame crane and cylinder and finally there is the US government serial number on the butt.

My other New Service is one of the guns that Colt built out of leftover M1909 parts in the early 1930's as part of a parts cleanup.

On a rather sad note, I found an original Model 1909 Colt the other day that someone had cut the barrel down and then installed a really ugly front sight dovetailed into the barrel





Hey, HP. Did the cut down 1909 resemble my 1917 and did you happen to take a picture of it? And out of curiosity, what were they asking for it? I would never chop one, but I like them when I see them. But I don't like "Fitzed" trigger guards.

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Old 04-20-2021, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyatt Burp View Post
Hey, HP. Did the cut down 1909 resemble my 1917 and did you happen to take a picture of it? And out of curiosity, what were they asking for it? I would never chop one, but I like them when I see them. But I don't like "Fitzed" trigger guards.

I think they wanted something like $899 for it. IMO way too much for one with a cut barrel. It looked like your basic M1909 like my parts cleanup NS in that the barrel lacked the shoulder that the M1917's have where it screws into the barrel. As I recall, the barrel looked like it was about 4" long. Quite honestly, if it would have been priced more around $450-$500, I would probably have bought it, but at nearly a grand OTD, it was just too much money for a hacked up gun.
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Old 04-20-2021, 1:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by highpower View Post
I think they wanted something like $899 for it. IMO way too much for one with a cut barrel. It looked like your basic M1909 like my parts cleanup NS in that the barrel lacked the shoulder that the M1917's have where it screws into the barrel. As I recall, the barrel looked like it was about 4" long. Quite honestly, if it would have been priced more around $450-$500, I would probably have bought it, but at nearly a grand OTD, it was just too much money for a hacked up gun.
Yeah, that’s way too high, based on your description of it.
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  #10  
Old 04-20-2021, 4:22 PM
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kananaios kananaios is offline
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Thanks to all who posted! Glad to hear the stamp was from a final inspector and not a fluke.

I'll look into cleaning and getting info from Colt.
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- George Carlin

"Blessed be the LORD, my rock, who trains my hands for war, and my fingers for battle;
He is my steadfast love and my fortress, my stronghold and my deliverer, my shield and he in whom I take refuge, who subdues peoples under me."
Psalm 144:1 & 2
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