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  #1  
Old 04-16-2021, 11:50 AM
nicky c nicky c is offline
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Default Christensen Arms Precision pistol

Uncertain of the practical application of this but what's the word on CA legality? Bolt action precision pistol:

https://christensenarms.com/modern-precision-pistol/
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  #2  
Old 04-16-2021, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicky c View Post
Uncertain of the practical application of this but what's the word on CA legality? Bolt action precision pistol:

https://christensenarms.com/modern-precision-pistol/
The Christensen Arms Modern Precision Pistol is not listed on the Roster of Handguns Certified for Sale.

Therefore, it is an off-Roster bolt-action repeating pistol.

A CA FFL dealer can only legally transfer it via exemption (LEO sale, out-of-state intra-familial/operation of law transfer, PPT).

Because it has never been semi-auto, it can be modifed to meet the single-shot pistol exemption (SSE2) by installing a fixed 0 round magazine that can not be removed without disassembling the firearm's action. However as a SSE2, in order to remain CA legal while in CA, it needs to remain configured as a SSE2.

Christensen Arms can also submit it, as a bolt-action repeating pistol, to CA DOJ BOF to be placed on the Roster of Handguns Certified for Sale.
^The only thing preventing it from being listed is Christensen Arms submitting it for testing, paying the required fees, and it passing the mandatory saftey testing.
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Old 04-16-2021, 12:16 PM
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This would make a nice lightweight hunting rig if we can get it as a repeater.
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  #4  
Old 04-16-2021, 12:59 PM
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They could get it added to the roster as a repeater. Not sure if there is enough market to warrant the cost.
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Old 04-16-2021, 2:36 PM
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I'd be pretty interested if they made it more like the XP-100.
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  #6  
Old 04-16-2021, 4:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Spyder View Post
I'd be pretty interested if they made it more like the XP-100.

If as Mr Quiet suggested, it was made SSE2 compliant. It would IMO be a "tacticool XP Clone".
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  #7  
Old 04-16-2021, 4:40 PM
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These guys make single shot versions:
https://blackcollararms.com/product-...complete-guns/
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  #8  
Old 04-16-2021, 6:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicky c View Post
Uncertain of the practical application of this but what's the word on CA legality? Bolt action precision pistol:

https://christensenarms.com/modern-precision-pistol/
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...&postcount=112

Quote:
Originally Posted by bwiese View Post
Hi SkyHawk...

Very open question/defendable especially if the gun transitioned thru single-shot status to semiauto and was 'virgin nonsemaiuto' to begin with.

AB1964 legislation changed wording only in minor ways, effectively restricting the single shot exemption to "guns that were never semiauto".
This does not mean various unused design features but only if actual semiauto status (incl factory testing) existed.

Note that SSE transition to semiauto was done all the way up to 2014.

The process was even inspected by DOJ, field agents are available for testimony as such, and shop inventory was approved for sale. Boatloads of SSE transactions went on in front of DOJ's noses (ie. sales during inspections/audits) for several years.

It was so legal that they changed the law. And only slightly.

They were thinking of blocking all the Sig and 1911 off-Roster variants. They really weren't thinking of virgin receiver buildups.

THE LAW DID NOT CHANGE IN THIS RESPECT (single shot/bolt action etc to semiauto). It only addded, essentially, the "virgin nonsemiauto" status requirement.

Additionally, DOJ writings from a Deputy AG indicated it was quite legal to buy a Rostered Glock and send it to Smyrna to put a left handed safety on it. That itself alone transitions the gun outside of Rostered status, just like using aftermarket magazines (say, CMC) in your Rostered Springfield 1911. [I specifically note that guns are tested/rostered with supplied magazines as exemplar, not "any magazine that fits". Changing parts in a magazines actually should make a gun fall off the Roster now with DOJ's new interpretation of "minor changes = new gun to certify with microstamping."]

The DOJ has a terrible burden because they do not have a 'priority list' of substitutable [or not] parts. For them to hold a position that a gun cannot be modified to another legally possessable state, this would preclude (1) generic replacement/repair parts, (2) generic magazines. The law has no exclusion for these.

Additionally, the single shot exclusion in PC 32100b - only slightly tweaked by AB1964 - still has the "32000PC shall not apply to...".

[When I posted the 'recipe' in summer of 2011 here on CGN, it was read by various parties, including ATF legal. Word got back to me thru 'a person in the room' that ATF - who actually does understand CA law - even praised the accuracy.]

I submit that DOJ will not bust somebody with the above for at best a misdemeanor Roster violation esp given the murkiness. AW violations? sure. All busts of stuff involving AR pistols seem to involve AW issues only.

This otherwise has the potential to get into "OK so that violates the Roster, you mean we can't use ordinary generic replacement wear & tear parts or generic magazines?" Hello Magnusson-Moss warranty act, etc. [Do you lose your GMC warranty and & emissions compliance for using a Fram oil filter or generic battery terminal? - rough equivalent]

So no, you can't SSE a gun that was already a semiauto (like we did 2007-2013 or whenever AB1964 kicked in.

But if you build up a gun, in non-AW form, from a virgin frame into a true single shot configuration - and do the serialization drama etc. - then convert to semiauto nonAW form you've moved thru a neutral zone to legal possession.
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”Benitez 3:29 Thou shall not limit magazine capacity”
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  #9  
Old 04-16-2021, 7:48 PM
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I’ve been looking at getting an MPR with a short barrel. This new “pistol” with a 12.5” barrel is intriguing.

Does anyone have a link to the California definition of a pistol or handgun?
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  #10  
Old 04-16-2021, 8:27 PM
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Originally Posted by middleofnowhere View Post
Does anyone have a link to the California definition of a pistol or handgun?
See the wiki article, http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/in..._a_firearm/gun
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  #11  
Old 04-19-2021, 2:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morrcarr67 View Post
This is what Bill is now (04-2021) saying on this issue...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bwiese
you're gonna have some issues that likely a noob without lawyers may not want.

1. Homebuilts from frames are not Rostered.

2. You'd have to first apply/get a serial# from DOJ

3. To bypass Roster you would have to determine, first, if that frame had ever been test fired in semiauto mode. If so, then no-go (AB1964 change to Roster ~8 yrs ago regarding single shot exemption)

4. If not 2 you'd have to also build into a single shot pistol (bolt action or break top etc) with a barrel over 6+" and overall length over 10.5" (but bbl under 16" and OAL under 26") , and use a fixed magazine with zero rounds - so it's an exempt single shot pistol.

5. Converting back to normal semiauto is problematic. DOJ is taking a different stance than before AB1964, even though AB1964 doesn't address this and DOJ staff has given instruction "how to properly do single shotting" - which means this is a regulatory change issue and prob defendable (nonprohibiting misdemeanor anyway).
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  #12  
Old 04-19-2021, 6:28 PM
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^^^^^So what does the above have to do with a SSE2 bolt action pistol....I’m a bit confused. Or is this addressing SSE1 being converted back to factory specs?
It’s as clear as mud......
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  #13  
Old 04-19-2021, 6:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicky c View Post
Uncertain of the practical application of this but what's the word on CA legality? Bolt action precision pistol:

https://christensenarms.com/modern-precision-pistol/
That looks to be something similar to the now defunct Remington 700CP.
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  #14  
Old 04-19-2021, 6:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
However as a SSE2, in order to remain CA legal while in CA, it needs to remain configured as a SSE2.
Where can I find this as published?
Is it a “opinion letter”, or part of actual, citable, referenced law?
Has this ever been challenged in court?
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  #15  
Old 04-20-2021, 5:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lastinline View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by quiet
However as a SSE2, in order to remain CA legal while in CA, it needs to remain configured as a SSE2.
Where can I find this as published?
Is it a “opinion letter”, or part of actual, citable, referenced law?
Has this ever been challenged in court?
CA DOJ BOF website

Quote:
Originally Posted by CA DOJ BOF
Aftermarket changes or modifications made to certain single shot pistols (i.e. changing upper receivers, connecting gas tubes) may be considered manufacturing these pistols into assault weapons. See California Penal Code section 30515, subdivision (a)(1), for a list of assault weapon characteristics. The purchaser could be in violation of Penal Code section 30600, prohibiting the manufacture of assault weapons, and Penal Code section 30605(a), prohibiting the possession of unregistered assault weapons.

Alterations of a single shot pistol (i.e. changing upper receivers, connecting gas tubes) may also be considered manufacturing an unsafe handgun. See California Penal Code sections 31900-31910 for the definition of unsafe handguns and 32000(a) for more information on illegal acts involving unsafe handguns.
It has not been challenged in the Courts.
CGF/FPC was looking for plantifs to challenge this, but it requires the plantif to actually be arrested/firearm confiscated due to this CA DOJ BOF internal rule change.
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Last edited by Quiet; 04-20-2021 at 11:30 AM..
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  #16  
Old 04-20-2021, 6:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
This is what Bill is now (04-2021) saying on this issue...
Do you have a link to the post? I checked his profile and it looks like he only has 3 post in 04/2021 and that is not one of them.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erion929 View Post

”Benitez 3:29 Thou shall not limit magazine capacity”
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  #17  
Old 04-20-2021, 6:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morrcarr67 View Post
Do you have a link to the post? I checked his profile and it looks like he only has 3 post in 04/2021 and that is not one of them.
He posted it in the Calguns Facebook group.
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Old 04-20-2021, 6:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
He posted it in the Calguns Facebook group.
Well it looks like there are two CalGuns dot Net pages.



Neither one of them have any post from Bill, that I can find.

Do you have a link to the post?

If you don't know how to share a FB post here are the instructions:

Click on the 3 dots in the top right corner of the post.
Then click on embed, it will open a new tab
Copy the link provided



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Yes you can have 2 C&R 03 FFL's; 1 in California and 1 in a different state.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Erion929 View Post

”Benitez 3:29 Thou shall not limit magazine capacity”
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Old 04-20-2021, 7:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
CA DOJ BOF website



It has not been challenged in the Courts.
CGF/FPC was looking for plantifs to challenge this, but it requires the plantif to actually be arrested/firearm confiscated due to this CA DOJ BOF internal rule change.
The link above went to “page not found”; however, I also spent time looking for it through other pages, and PC32000(a), and only found reference to “manufacturing”. I also looked at the other code sections, but found no reference to alterations of existing pistols, other than references to connecting gas tubes, etc. the term “may” is used, indicating that nobody really knows.
That there is no case that we can reference for court rulings also is interesting.
Perhaps this all boils down to what the definition of “manufacturing” is, and who gets to define what that really means. I’m going to guess that because these single-shot, bolt action pistols are rare, and seldom seen, it has not been focused on. Looks like the AR pistol platform is more common.
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Old 04-21-2021, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OCArmory View Post
They could get it added to the roster as a repeater. Not sure if there is enough market to warrant the cost.
Someone should contact them and ask, the worst that happens is they say no.

Alternatively, maybe they would make a single shot version?

And out of curiosity, I would have thought having a left handed action would be easier to use as a pistol, is this not the case?
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Old 04-21-2021, 5:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wheellock View Post
Someone should contact them and ask, the worst that happens is they say no.

Alternatively, maybe they would make a single shot version?

And out of curiosity, I would have thought having a left handed action would be easier to use as a pistol, is this not the case?
A California FFL with a 07 license should be able to convert a repeater to a single shot, and transfer it to you in the normal fashion. They can use a zero round sled, or pin a magazine to one round, and following that make it so the magazine can be removed by removing the action from the chassis. After you have possession, do what you will.
I have looked all over, at numerous .gov websites, and have found nothing that addresses bolt action, manually operated pistols, not of the AR type, and specifically not in the context of converting what the OP is looking at and what end users may or may not do afterwards. There are some references to “manufacturing”, gas tubes, upper receivers, and the like, but absolutely nothing that I could find addressing such as the pistol the OP was referencing. Everything I did find was concerning semi-automatic pistols. That seems to be the focus.
There have been on this thread and others, reference to DOJ BOF info that is not there, was possibly removed, or otherwise nonexistent. Not sure if the statement “ However as a SSE2, in order to remain CA legal while in CA, it needs to remain configured as a SSE2.” is directed towards these bolt action, manually operated pistols that are the focus here, but I can find no reference to that other than by the member who has posted that repeatedly. From what I can find, all his (or her) references are to pistols being converted to semi-auto after end user possession. If I am wrong, I will stand corrected, but need further reference.

Last edited by lastinline; 04-21-2021 at 5:56 PM..
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Old 04-21-2021, 6:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wheellock View Post

And out of curiosity, I would have thought having a left handed action would be easier to use as a pistol, is this not the case?
I agree.
After some use of a Remington 700CP, breaking one’s grip to operate the bolt IMO is not optimal. A left bolt would be more efficient as far as I experienced.
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Old 04-21-2021, 6:34 PM
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That is one of the worst website descriptions and YouTube videos ive seen, to advertise a cool product
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They don't believe it's possible, but then Alison didn't believe there'd be 350K - 400K OLLs in CA either.
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