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  #1  
Old 04-19-2021, 6:02 PM
hardlyworking hardlyworking is online now
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Default Networking/Cable info request

Alrighty, its been a LONG time since physics, current through a wire causes a magnetic field, magnetic field creates a current in a wire etc...

I have a workshop in the back of the property, with my reloading setup, wife's COVID office, tack-room for the horses etc.

It has underground conduit from the main breaker box with a "fairly high" amperage circuit running 240V and 120V out to the workshop

Can I fish some shielded CAT6 down that conduit and into the workshop from the main house?

I mean, obviously I can, but will there be crazy cross-talk/packet loss/interference from the networking cable being inside and millimeters away from an active AC power lines in the conduit?

The alternative is to just lay bare wire on the ground for 30 yards (or put it into some kind of above ground conduit) but that's going to drive the Mrs. crazy.

Advice requested!
Thanks guys!
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  #2  
Old 04-19-2021, 6:03 PM
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I can terminate the ends of the cable, if there are particular cables you would recommend given the constraints, I'm all ears!
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  #3  
Old 04-19-2021, 6:21 PM
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Not an electrician, but I believe having high and low voltage stuff in the same conduit can be a safety hazard.

I don't think noise would be an issue though since the cable is shielded.
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Old 04-19-2021, 6:45 PM
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NO cat 5 / 6 should be a minimum of 3' from A/C wires, unless crossing at a 90 degree, Most Cat 5/6 is NOT shielded, and even with shielding a close parallel run is not recommended. Also NEC says do not mix high voltage and low voltage in same conduit
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  #5  
Old 04-19-2021, 7:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FF90 View Post
NO cat 5 / 6 should be a minimum of 3' from A/C wires, unless crossing at a 90 degree, Most Cat 5/6 is NOT shielded, and even with shielding a close parallel run is not recommended. Also NEC says do not mix high voltage and low voltage in same conduit
This is correct by both practice and code.
Even if you did you do it you then have the dance of not grounding the shield vs grounding one or both ends.

Get a ubiquity wireless bridge.
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Old 04-19-2021, 8:09 PM
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You could run fiber optic cable in the conduit with the AC power. It will not conduct power, and no cross talk. Use a media converter at each end if necessary...


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  #7  
Old 04-20-2021, 4:20 AM
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Originally Posted by McGuiver View Post
You could run fiber optic cable in the conduit with the AC power. It will not conduct power, and no cross talk. Use a media converter at each end if necessary...


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+1 And if you are going to pull a pair of strands just pull a few pairs all at once. Sometimes they break or just randomly stop working. Double check your single mode / multi mode and make sure they match.
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  #8  
Old 04-20-2021, 9:22 AM
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Coax MOCA BRIDGES On both ends with rg6?
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  #9  
Old 04-20-2021, 8:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ibanezfoo View Post
+1 And if you are going to pull a pair of strands just pull a few pairs all at once. Sometimes they break or just randomly stop working. Double check your single mode / multi mode and make sure they match.
Go single mode. It has longer reach and potential for higher bandwidth. Cost used to be an issue, but you can buy bulk 8-pair bundled AFL-ADSS single mode for $300 / KM.

The issue then becomes getting familiar with terminating and polishing ends / connectors or finding a tech to do it.

Media converters are also dirt cheap. 1GB SFP 2-port converters for each end are under $100 each, and SFP modules for LC and GbE are under $50 each.

Such a difference from even 10 years ago.
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Old 04-20-2021, 10:16 PM
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How hard is your ground?

30 yards is not the longest run

A 4 hour rental with a Home Depot ditch witch will get you a nice trench from point A to B. Run your choice of conduit PVC, ABS etc Fish your new communication lines.
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  #11  
Old 04-20-2021, 10:17 PM
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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=axKtUUXw0F4
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  #12  
Old 04-21-2021, 5:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robotron2k84 View Post
Go single mode. It has longer reach and potential for higher bandwidth. Cost used to be an issue, but you can buy bulk 8-pair bundled AFL-ADSS single mode for $300 / KM.

The issue then becomes getting familiar with terminating and polishing ends / connectors or finding a tech to do it.

Media converters are also dirt cheap. 1GB SFP 2-port converters for each end are under $100 each, and SFP modules for LC and GbE are under $50 each.

Such a difference from even 10 years ago.
Polishing ends and putting connectors on SUCKS and you really need the right equipment to do it. Just pay someone to come do it for you.
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  #13  
Old 04-21-2021, 8:41 AM
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There are “snap-on” SC/LC connectors that don't require epoxy and polishing, they just use a waveguide and butt the fiber up against the ferrule and have a mechanical friction clamp for the sheath.

I’m highly skeptical of these connectors as they seem like a prime source of failure if the cable is tugged on, even a little. The upside is you can re-terminate them in 10 seconds without throwing away the connector, but you might need to strip a little more off the fiber.

Proper termination, in my mind, still requires glue, crimp and polishing.

A $100 termination kit will probably get you by for 32 connectors on an 8-pair cable that you’ll never need to replace until past 240 GbE.
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  #14  
Old 04-21-2021, 9:05 AM
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Might consider digging a PVC conduit, does not need to be deep or run bare Burial UV Resistant Ethernet cable.

https://www.amazon.com/UbiGear-Water...%2C217&sr=1-13

Also, you might consider Point-to-Point wireless AP:

https://www.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-Loco...s%2C228&sr=8-8

Last edited by tay; 04-21-2021 at 9:09 AM..
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  #15  
Old 04-21-2021, 9:29 AM
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I just use a couple of powerline adapters to run ethernet out to our tackroom/office. Works great.
https://www.amazon.com/TP-Link-AV600...s%2C233&sr=8-3
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Old 04-21-2021, 9:35 AM
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As others have stated, just go fiber.
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  #17  
Old 04-21-2021, 9:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Offspring View Post
This is correct by both practice and code.
Even if you did you do it you then have the dance of not grounding the shield vs grounding one or both ends.

Get a ubiquity wireless bridge.
I would never trust a company that tried to hide their breach.
https://krebsonsecurity.com/2021/03/...-catastrophic/
And yes, I am bias as I only use enterprise level product.
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Old 04-21-2021, 3:56 PM
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So, you want to fish a cable into an existing conduit populated with energized conductors? Can I have your guns?

You’re not telling us a few things - how large the conduit is, how many conductors & sizes, how/where the conduits are terminated.

While per Article 770.133 (NEC), nonconductive fiber cables can be run jointly in a raceway with electric power, lighting, and Class 1 circuits, they cannot occupy a cabinet, outlet box, etc., unless the fiber is functionally associated with the circuits.

Furthermore, if you weren’t planning on disconnecting the power conductors and pulling them all back to add the fiber and pull all the cables back in together I highly doubt you’d be successful. Cables/wires will twist during the install and I don’t see you being able to run a fishtape through and back out of a populated raceway.

And yes, I’ve pulled my share of LV cable and also design telecom infrastructure for a living.

I’d either do a wireless bridge or run a new trench/ductbank. But call ‘DigAlert’ before trenching...
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  #19  
Old 04-21-2021, 4:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrkubota View Post
I just use a couple of powerline adapters to run ethernet out to our tackroom/office. Works great.
https://www.amazon.com/TP-Link-AV600...s%2C233&sr=8-3
Be very careful with those. I was able to get on my neighbors network that also used them....
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  #20  
Old 04-22-2021, 3:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ibanezfoo View Post
Be very careful with those. I was able to get on my neighbors network that also used them....
Lots of these are actually proprietary wireless bridges.

BUT they didn't enable crypto/pairing on that set?!?!?!?!

OMFG!

I bet they never checked for rogue devices by logging into their router, either, which is the bare minimum one should do...
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Last edited by the86d; 04-22-2021 at 3:48 AM..
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  #21  
Old 04-22-2021, 9:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the86d View Post
Lots of these are actually proprietary wireless bridges.

BUT they didn't enable crypto/pairing on that set?!?!?!?!

OMFG!

I bet they never checked for rogue devices by logging into their router, either, which is the bare minimum one should do...
I didn't even think they would go that far. I was messing with one when I was renting a house in a normal neighborhood (postage stamp sized lots) and scanned the network and saw a number of devices that weren't mine. I thought they wouldnt go beyond my power panel, hell, it didn't even seem to work right from upstairs to downstairs... but there they were. These were older Netgear 500 something or others. They did have encryption that could be turned off and on but at that time I was experimenting with them. After messing around with their network for a bit I unplugged them and threw them in the trash. I don't trust that crap now.
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