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#41
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According to these guys from Stockton (I was referred from other sales pages) they are still able to build AR pistols. Bolt style maybe?
https://www.facebook.com/kwdefenseinc/?fref=ts http://www.kwdefense.com/ |
#42
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Essentially SSE is still alive as long as the handgun was NEVER semi automatic. It is sold as single shot and can be converted to semi by the owner. Building AR Pistols to meet this definition is relatively simple. But that doesn't address the heart of the matter being discussed here. "Can you build an AR Pistol with a lower DROS'd as a "rifle/longgun" here in CA?" |
#43
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The ATF/4473 has three options. Handgun, Long gun, Other. Stripped lowers that are bought as "other" can be configured into pistols. If you configure a registered rifle lower as a pistol, the ATF considers it a short barrel rifle. Since California does not provide an "other" option, a stripped lower is DROS'd as a long gun (unless already a registered pistol), meeting both state and federal definition of a rifle. Any configuration of a rifle lower as a pistol creates an illegal firearm- short barrel rifle. The law is very clear that anything transferred as a rifle remains a rifle unless configured into a SBR. A pistol can be configured temporarily as a rifle and converted back to a pistol. The OP's question asked if he can make a pistol lower from his already DROS'd long gun lowers. The answer is no due to federal and state law. Here is a recent example at the state level: http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201...tol-arm-brace/ and federal Quote:
Last line second paragraph "Also, when purchasing or picking up your receivers, make sure your dealer does not describe them as 'rifles' on the ATF form 4473" Once the gun has been transferred as a long gun/rifle it remains that way both state and federal law. The configuration the ATF is referring to has to do with lowers transferred as "other", we do not have "other" in CA DROS system. My own personal experience was filling out a form 1 to create an AOW (an AR-PISTOL with a vertical fore grip less than 26 inches). The registered pistol lower had a model make of "m4 carbine". The ATF contacted me because they thought the lower was already a rifle, meaning I can't create an AOW or a pistol, only a short barrel rifle. I showed them Daniel Defense's pistol model is also labeled m4 carbine and they approve the stamp. Last edited by wireless; 01-04-2016 at 6:42 PM.. |
#44
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#45
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We also know that the grip on a 1919 is not "a pistol grip which protudes below the action" so, trying to compare the grip on a 1919 and the grip on an AR is plain stupid. It has nothing to do with it being a "rifle" or not. My 1919 A6 configuration is legal in CA without a mag lock even with a stock and the grip.
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NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun and Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor California DOJ Certified Fingerprint Roller Ventura County approved CCW Instructor Utah CCW Instructor Offering low cost multi state CCW, private basic shooting and reloading classes for calgunners. CCW SAFE MEMBERSHIPS HERE KM6WLV |
#46
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On a Federal level, it is clearly legal to make a handgun from a virgin receiver no matter what CA's DROS and registration might consider it. As long as it has NEVER been configured as a "rifle" it can be built into a pistol. I sure don't see where ATF has opined that a virgin receiver transferred as a "receiver" is a "rifle". ATF doesn't give a rat's azz how the CA DROS form was filled out as long as the Federal form is filled out correctly.
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NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun and Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor California DOJ Certified Fingerprint Roller Ventura County approved CCW Instructor Utah CCW Instructor Offering low cost multi state CCW, private basic shooting and reloading classes for calgunners. CCW SAFE MEMBERSHIPS HERE KM6WLV |
#48
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Here, I will take out the hard work for you https://www.google.com/search?q=can+...sm=91&ie=UTF-8 |
#49
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Another thing you don't understand is that a long gun which is not a "rifle" or "shotgun" can have a barrel length of less than 16" and an OAL of over 26" and not be a SBR, SBS or NFA AOW. Yes, there are people who have done this in CA. In fact, it has been done in CA. One example is a 1919 with a sub 16" barrel. It is legally just a title one firearm. It is not a "rifle", "pistol" or "shotgun" by definition nor is it a NFA item. Another example is the FA XO-26. Even with an 11.5" barrel, it is not a "pistol" under Federal law and can have a VFG without being subject to NFA registration. It's not a SBR or SBS under CA law either.
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NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun and Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor California DOJ Certified Fingerprint Roller Ventura County approved CCW Instructor Utah CCW Instructor Offering low cost multi state CCW, private basic shooting and reloading classes for calgunners. CCW SAFE MEMBERSHIPS HERE KM6WLV Last edited by CSACANNONEER; 01-04-2016 at 9:23 PM.. |
#50
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I'm not sure how you aren't comprehending clear english. The letter is very, very clear.
California DROS system has LONG GUN and HAND GUN. A gun cannot be transferred any other way. ATF 4473 has three options, RIFLE/LONG GUN, HANDGUN, and OTHER. A stripped lower is considered OTHER because it is not configured as a rifle or a handgun but is still a FIREARM. Once again, in California we have to transfer stripped lowers as RIFLE or HANDGUN. When a stripped lower is transferred as a RIFLE, the ATF considers it to be a RIFLE. That's why in the letter it states to make sure the FFL does NOT transfer the bare receiver as a RIFLE. http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_122/266557_.html Read the FAQ Here is a link to U.S. v. Kent http://www.quarterbore.net/forums/showthread.php?t=170 |
#51
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BTW, I've never argued that one can make a pistol from a receiver that was first configured as a rifle. So, quite wasting your time with that. The fact is that CA DROS has NO legal bearing on Federal definitions.
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NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun and Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor California DOJ Certified Fingerprint Roller Ventura County approved CCW Instructor Utah CCW Instructor Offering low cost multi state CCW, private basic shooting and reloading classes for calgunners. CCW SAFE MEMBERSHIPS HERE KM6WLV Last edited by CSACANNONEER; 01-04-2016 at 9:35 PM.. |
#52
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At that point, the seller would be selling an unregistered handgun. Which would be illegal. The issue is that it is NOT a registered handgun, nor was it at the point where it was sold as a new (vs used) firearm, nor is it able to be registered as a handgun, because it is no longer new, and it is not considered a "safe handgun" per the roster. |
#53
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NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun and Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor California DOJ Certified Fingerprint Roller Ventura County approved CCW Instructor Utah CCW Instructor Offering low cost multi state CCW, private basic shooting and reloading classes for calgunners. CCW SAFE MEMBERSHIPS HERE KM6WLV |
#54
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Also not a legal issue to ppt a handgun that is not on the roster (if processed through ffl, etc). The problem (if any) would arise if there was a need for a trace starting with the manufacturer. Many things could happen then. If originally purchased out of state? Or transferred at some point out of Ca? It's also been documented in court that the Ca database is not perfect..........
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There are some people that it's just not worth engaging. It's a muzzle BRAKE, not a muzzle break. Or is your muzzle tired? |
#55
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I'm just going to leave this here to clarify that CA DROS does NOT determine that a receiver is a long gun on a Federal level.
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NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun and Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor California DOJ Certified Fingerprint Roller Ventura County approved CCW Instructor Utah CCW Instructor Offering low cost multi state CCW, private basic shooting and reloading classes for calgunners. CCW SAFE MEMBERSHIPS HERE KM6WLV |
#57
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Not according to wireless's argument.
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NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun and Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor California DOJ Certified Fingerprint Roller Ventura County approved CCW Instructor Utah CCW Instructor Offering low cost multi state CCW, private basic shooting and reloading classes for calgunners. CCW SAFE MEMBERSHIPS HERE KM6WLV |
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