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  #1  
Old 10-11-2021, 7:24 PM
HOGDOG1955 HOGDOG1955 is offline
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Default can miitary stationed in ca sell off roster handgun they brought with them

can a active duty military person who is in california on orders legally sell an off roster handgun to a ca citizen. they brought the gun with them when they got stationed here. i know they can buy guns while here but today we were told they cant sell off roster handguns thru private party transfer.
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Old 10-11-2021, 7:47 PM
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Originally Posted by HOGDOG1955 View Post
can a active duty military person who is in california on orders legally sell an off roster handgun to a ca citizen. they brought the gun with them when they got stationed here. i know they can buy guns while here but today we were told they cant sell off roster handguns thru private party transfer.
Yes they can. Go find a different store to do the transfer. Where are you located, someone can point you to a better store.

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Old 10-12-2021, 11:12 AM
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im outside salinas.
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Old 10-12-2021, 3:06 PM
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The “Roster” doesn’t matter as long as two legal california residents do an in per private party transfer. All handguns are treated the same. The CDOJ doesn’t give a twitter.

Find an FFL that’s smarter….

You might have scared the inexperienced FFL counter jockey by making a big deal of the Roster.

The Roster only means that an FFL can’t sell the gun to you. But he can transfer
them thru the PPT process.

Be well
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Old 10-12-2021, 3:18 PM
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I have friends here with the military.... they Don't pay CA income taxes, they don't register their cars in CA.

They are in California on Orders. They Legally are residents of a state with no income tax and cheap car registration.


I don't know how being in CA on orders impacts guns and ammo
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Old 10-12-2021, 3:24 PM
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Was it Turners Salinas ya'll went?
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Old 10-12-2021, 3:26 PM
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Are they residents of CA or the states from which they came?
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Old 10-12-2021, 3:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Wheellock View Post
Are they residents of CA or the states from which they came?
Their orders make them a resident of whatever state they are assigned to.
Take them along.
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Old 10-12-2021, 4:41 PM
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Originally Posted by M1NM View Post
Their orders make them a resident of whatever state they are assigned to.
Take them along.
For purposes of gun-related matters, that's right. Note also that the Federal and State laws governing residence-for-guns specify the member only - dependents are not included.

Other things - where one votes, where one pays taxes, where one registers vehicles - are covered by different law - see https://myarmybenefits.us.army.mil/B...lief-Act-(SCRA)

Over the years, some .mil have thought Servicemembers' Civil Relief Act of 2003 (SCRA) also applied to gun things, but that is incorrect.
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  #10  
Old 10-12-2021, 4:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Wheellock View Post
Are they residents of CA or the states from which they came?
Active military are sory-of dual residents. They retain their permanent home of record, and as long as they are on Duty Orders, federal law allows them to buy and sell as a resident of their duty station state.
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Old 10-12-2021, 8:00 PM
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Was it Turners Salinas ya'll went?
yes it was turners salinas after they called corporate. and then i called a buddy who asked his ffl he uses all the time and they said no also
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Old 10-12-2021, 8:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Wheellock View Post
Are they residents of CA or the states from which they came?
resident of another state.
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Old 10-12-2021, 8:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
For purposes of gun-related matters, that's right. Note also that the Federal and State laws governing residence-for-guns specify the member only - dependents are not included.

Other things - where one votes, where one pays taxes, where one registers vehicles - are covered by different law - see https://myarmybenefits.us.army.mil/B...lief-Act-(SCRA)

Over the years, some .mil have thought Servicemembers' Civil Relief Act of 2003 (SCRA) also applied to gun things, but that is incorrect.
thank you. i was hoping you would chime in on this. so are you saying the guy can sell me his handgun thru ppt? if so i just need to find an ffl who will do it? turners and the other ffl i tried both said he couldnt sell firearms in california, only buy them. and yes he had his orders with him. they said to do a ppt he needed a california id.but they said he could do a ppt wit another active duty military.
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Old 10-12-2021, 8:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oceanbob View Post
The “Roster” doesn’t matter as long as two legal california residents do an in per private party transfer. All handguns are treated the same. The CDOJ doesn’t give a twitter.

Find an FFL that’s smarter….

You might have scared the inexperienced FFL counter jockey by making a big deal of the Roster.

The Roster only means that an FFL can’t sell the gun to you. But he can transfer
them thru the PPT process.

Be well
Bob
the roster isnt the issue really. its that the seller isnt a california resident. hes a resident of another state and here on orders.
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Old 10-12-2021, 8:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HOGDOG1955 View Post
thank you. i was hoping you would chime in on this. so are you saying the guy can sell me his handgun thru ppt? if so i just need to find an ffl who will do it? turners and the other ffl i tried both said he couldnt sell firearms in california, only buy them. and yes he had his orders with him. they said to do a ppt he needed a california id.but they said he could do a ppt wit another active duty military.
Both FFLs were wrong on the point.

PC 26845 -
Quote:
ARTICLE 2. Grounds for Forfeiture of License [26800 - 26915] ( Article 2 added by Stats. 2010, Ch. 711, Sec. 6. )

26845.

(a) No handgun may be delivered unless the purchaser, transferee, or person being loaned the firearm presents documentation indicating that the person is a California resident.

(b) Satisfactory documentation shall include
a utility bill from within the last three months,

a residential lease,

a property deed, or

military permanent duty station orders indicating assignment within this state, or

other evidence of residency as permitted by the Department of Justice.

(c) The firearms dealer shall retain a photocopy of the documentation as proof of compliance with this requirement.
Residency to buy is exactly the same as residency to sell PPT.

ETA nowhere in PC or CCR does it actually say the seller must be a CA resident; that seems to be an artifact of the way the DROS software is implemented. See PCC - https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/f...er=5.&article=

ETA2 Federal law 18 USC 922(b)
Quote:
(b) For the purposes of this chapter, a member of the Armed Forces on active duty is a resident of the State in which his permanent duty station is located.
There is a comparable bit of CA code but it eludes me just now.
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Last edited by Librarian; 10-12-2021 at 10:46 PM..
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Old 10-12-2021, 8:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ldsnet View Post
Active military are sory-of dual residents. They retain their permanent home of record, and as long as they are on Duty Orders, federal law allows them to buy and sell as a resident of their duty station state.
While they may be "Sorta Dual Residents" for the application of many other laws, the federal law defines them as being residents of California, only California, and not of their home of record state. Please refer to 18 USC 921(b).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wheellock View Post
Are they residents of CA or the states from which they came?
Quote:
Originally Posted by HOGDOG1955 View Post
resident of another state.
California law does not clearly define their status. Penal Code section 17000(b)(1) applies a series of tests to determine if a person is a California resident (for purposes of California's firearms laws). Being on active duty in the state does not mandate any particular outcome of the test. Penal Code section 17000(b)(2) makes it clear that a military member discharged in California is a California resident, but that statute doesn't address the member's status while in active service.

However, federal law does very clearly provide that they are California residents (please see above).
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Old 10-12-2021, 8:47 PM
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Originally Posted by HOGDOG1955 View Post
yes it was turners salinas after they called corporate. and then i called a buddy who asked his ffl he uses all the time and they said no also
Yeah you just have to find an FFL that have a well understand of CA gun laws. Bill in Turner's Corporate Compliance usually is pretty good at understanding CA gun laws, but I don't know if your situation ever reached him. If you're willing to travel further out (Bay area), more options there. Good luck.
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Old 10-12-2021, 9:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
Both FFLs were wrong on the point.

PC 26845 -
Residency to buy is exactly the same as residency to sell PPT.

ETA nowhere in PC or CCR does it actually say the seller must be a CA resident; that seems to be an artifact of the way the DROS software is implemented. See PCC - https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/f...er=5.&article=
thank you, now to find an ffl here that understands it.
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Old 10-12-2021, 9:34 PM
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Originally Posted by sfe187 View Post
Yeah you just have to find an FFL that have a well understand of CA gun laws. Bill in Turner's Corporate Compliance usually is pretty good at understanding CA gun laws, but I don't know if your situation ever reached him. If you're willing to travel further out (Bay area), more options there. Good luck.
thank you. ill give the district guy a call as i have dealt with him alot. and i dont think the guy will go from monterey to the bay area.
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Old 10-13-2021, 9:50 AM
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They don't know how to run the military information through the DROS (DES).

From the CA OAG DES Application – Firearms Dealership User Guide, Page 38:
Quote:
ENTERING PURCHASER AND SELLER INFORMATION
All DROS transaction types require the entry of purchaser information. Seller information is only required on the following transaction types:
 Private Party Handgun Transfer
 Handgun Loan
 Private Party Long Gun Transfer
 Long Gun Loan
Purchaser and seller information will be captured by swiping the California Driver’s License or Identification card through a magnetic card swipe reader. Any missing or incorrect information will be keyed directly into the appropriate fields.
Page 39:
Quote:
To Enter Purchaser or Seller Information:
1) Swipe the driver’s license or identification card through the magnetic card swipe reader.
2) Click on the Submit button in the Swipe CA Driver’s License or ID Card area (see Figure 9.1).

{Figure 9.1, Submit Driver’s License Information}

3) Verify that the data displays correctly. Note: If the information will not scan, you must manually enter the information.
4) Correct information as necessary.
5) Complete all applicable fields, including Firearms Eligibility Questions 1 - 4.
Page 41:
Quote:
Private Party Handgun Transfer
Select the Private Party Handgun Transfer transaction type when the individual selling or
transferring a handgun is not a firearms dealer.
To submit a Private Party Handgun Transfer transaction:
1) From the Main Menu page, select the Submit DROS link. The Select Transaction Type page will display.
2) Select the Private Party Handgun Transfer link. The Submit Private Party Handgun Transfer form will display.
3) Enter the Purchaser and Seller Information (see Entering Purchaser and Seller Information above).
They are either incompetent, ignorant, or avoiding the PPT.

I'm sure they would tell you they need the CA DL or CA ID, but the instructions above, and the law, don't support that.

I'm also sure they would be able to figure it out and enter the military information of a buyer purchasing a gun from them.
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Old 10-14-2021, 6:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Dvrjon View Post
They don't know how to run the military information through the DROS (DES).

From the CA OAG DES Application – Firearms Dealership User Guide, Page 38:Page 39:Page 41:They are either incompetent, ignorant, or avoiding the PPT.

I'm sure they would tell you they need the CA DL or CA ID, but the instructions above, and the law, don't support that.

I'm also sure they would be able to figure it out and enter the military information of a buyer purchasing a gun from them.
What an excellent post.
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Old 10-14-2021, 1:35 PM
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i put in a call to turners district manager and he got right back to me. i told him my story and he said ill call you back in 5 minutes . he called right back and said it was ok to do and he was going to instruct the guys at the salinas store how to do it . now waiting on the guy with the pistol to call me back,lol.
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Old 10-14-2021, 1:40 PM
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I bought a G19 from a guy stationed at 29 palms so I say yes you can.
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Old 10-14-2021, 1:55 PM
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Originally Posted by HOGDOG1955 View Post
i put in a call to turners district manager and he got right back to me. i told him my story and he said ill call you back in 5 minutes . he called right back and said it was ok to do and he was going to instruct the guys at the salinas store how to do it . now waiting on the guy with the pistol to call me back,lol.
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Old 10-14-2021, 1:57 PM
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Glad the regional went to bat for ya. I wonder if he is the same guy in charge of Rocklin Sac and Stockton as well, i forgot his name.
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Old 10-16-2021, 12:45 PM
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Glad the regional went to bat for ya. I wonder if he is the same guy in charge of Rocklin Sac and Stockton as well, i forgot his name.
same guy. good guy to deal with. so i get the ok to do the ppt at turners and the seller calls me and tells me that his wife said he cant sell the gun as its her favorite gun they brought with them. so now the 5 or more year search to obtain this gun goes on,lmao.
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Old 10-16-2021, 1:33 PM
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Originally Posted by HOGDOG1955 View Post
same guy. good guy to deal with. so i get the ok to do the ppt at turners and the seller calls me and tells me that his wife said he cant sell the gun as its her favorite gun they brought with them. so now the 5 or more year search to obtain this gun goes on,lmao.
Maybe he'll sell it to you when he gets stationed to a free state where he can buy a new one for less $.
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Old 10-16-2021, 1:49 PM
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Originally Posted by HOGDOG1955 View Post
same guy. good guy to deal with. so i get the ok to do the ppt at turners and the seller calls me and tells me that his wife said he cant sell the gun as its her favorite gun they brought with them. so now the 5 or more year search to obtain this gun goes on,lmao.
Damn after all that and the . . . . wife?lol

At least next time you're GTG with a military transaction. A family member was station there for a short while, some kinda of intel, security, reconnaissance school at Monterey facility.
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Old 10-16-2021, 5:07 PM
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Damn after all that and the . . . . wife?lol

At least next time you're GTG with a military transaction. A family member was station there for a short while, some kinda of intel, security , reconnaissance school at Monterey facility.
School is likely not Permanent Change of Station (PCS) so probably does not work
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Old 10-22-2021, 2:47 PM
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If they brought the guns "with them" when they moved to CA is one thing, that may not be the same if they came to thye state on PCS and later brought in off roster guns from that other state.
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