Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > GENERAL DISCUSSION > General gun discussions
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

General gun discussions This is a place to lounge and discuss firearm related topics with other forum members.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04-15-2021, 10:42 AM
Dan_Eastvale's Avatar
Dan_Eastvale Dan_Eastvale is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: West Jordan, Utah
Posts: 7,308
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default ATF Keeps Copy Of Form 4473?

The online software FFLs use for a 4473 allows the entire bound book to be handed to ATF on a thumb drive.

How do we know that is erased by ATF after review? By LAW they can't maintain copies of bound books.
They also can't demand records > 20 years.

Federal gun registration behind our backs?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 04-15-2021, 11:07 AM
hermosabeach's Avatar
hermosabeach hermosabeach is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: South Bay of Los Angeles
Posts: 18,386
iTrader: 12 / 100%
Default

It’s my understanding that they law is ignored and records and registry are kept.
__________________
Rule 1- ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED

Rule 2 -NEVER LET THE MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT PREPARED TO DESTROY (including your hands and legs)

Rule 3 -KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET

Rule 4 -BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET AND WHAT IS BEYOND IT
(thanks to Jeff Cooper)
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04-15-2021, 12:09 PM
Snoopy47's Avatar
Snoopy47 Snoopy47 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,615
iTrader: 8 / 100%
Default

I suppose it depends on the ethics of certain agents.

I was visited by a federal AFT agent once. I was overly excited to have moved out of CA for a while, and went nuts at the gun store. So they visited me to make sure my purchases were not crossing over state lines as a straw purchase to less friendly states.

Anyway, he wanted to see I still possessed all the recent purchases. He had a hand written list of said purchases, and I thought it was kind of sad he couldn't easily do a print out. The list wasn't short.

So, did he ethically not have data stored on a server where he could just print it off or was this for show for my sake he had to hand jam all the data of my recent purchases.

************
Regardless............ it showed me one thing..........

They are watching.............

There are flags I set off............

I will be more careful in the future...........

I did nothing illegal. I had no intention of doing anything illegal, but I still had federal agents show up to my door.

They are watching.........

************
The rules ethical agents follow are being broken by those without those same ethics. So yes the ATF does have the data. Someone in some office there does have the data and is breaking the rules just waiting for the rules to change.
__________________
Before there was Polymer there was Accuracy.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 04-15-2021, 12:13 PM
Jess B. Guy Jess B. Guy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 623
iTrader: 36 / 100%
Default

Bound books kept always. 4473's can be destroyed after 20 years.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 04-15-2021, 1:34 PM
sigstroker sigstroker is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: not in CA
Posts: 17,344
iTrader: 8 / 100%
Default

Owner of the lgs, a friend since grade school, told me every month he pulled out the 20 year old 4473's and had a little bonfire.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04-16-2021, 8:09 PM
nitroxdiver's Avatar
nitroxdiver nitroxdiver is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Not in California
Posts: 6,954
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snoopy47 View Post
I suppose it depends on the ethics of certain agents.

I was visited by a federal AFT agent once. I was overly excited to have moved out of CA for a while, and went nuts at the gun store. So they visited me to make sure my purchases were not crossing over state lines as a straw purchase to less friendly states.

Anyway, he wanted to see I still possessed all the recent purchases. He had a hand written list of said purchases, and I thought it was kind of sad he couldn't easily do a print out. The list wasn't short.

So, did he ethically not have data stored on a server where he could just print it off or was this for show for my sake he had to hand jam all the data of my recent purchases.

************
Regardless............ it showed me one thing..........

They are watching.............

There are flags I set off............

I will be more careful in the future...........

I did nothing illegal. I had no intention of doing anything illegal, but I still had federal agents show up to my door.

They are watching.........

************
The rules ethical agents follow are being broken by those without those same ethics. So yes the ATF does have the data. Someone in some office there does have the data and is breaking the rules just waiting for the rules to change.

We’re you purchasing multiple firearms at the same time on the same 4473? Did you do that more than a few times?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04-16-2021, 9:36 PM
Endless Endless is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: United States Of America
Posts: 1,884
iTrader: 73 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan_Eastvale View Post
The online software FFLs use for a 4473 allows the entire bound book to be handed to ATF on a thumb drive.

How do we know that is erased by ATF after review? By LAW they can't maintain copies of bound books.
They also can't demand records > 20 years.

Federal gun registration behind our backs?
Absolutely not.

Arizona has no law requiring firearms dealers to initiate background checks prior to transferring a firearm. ... As a result, concealed weapon permit holders in Arizona are exempt from the federal background check requirement when purchasing a handgun.

https://giffords.org/lawcenter/state...es-in-arizona/

Once again in liberal states who knows and probably.

Last edited by Endless; 04-16-2021 at 9:43 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04-17-2021, 6:47 AM
Robert1234's Avatar
Robert1234 Robert1234 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Prescott Arizona
Posts: 3,077
iTrader: 52 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snoopy47 View Post
I suppose it depends on the ethics of certain agents.

I was visited by a federal AFT agent once. I was overly excited to have moved out of CA for a while, and went nuts at the gun store. So they visited me to make sure my purchases were not crossing over state lines as a straw purchase to less friendly states.

Anyway, he wanted to see I still possessed all the recent purchases. He had a hand written list of said purchases, and I thought it was kind of sad he couldn't easily do a print out. The list wasn't short.

So, did he ethically not have data stored on a server where he could just print it off or was this for show for my sake he had to hand jam all the data of my recent purchases.

************
Regardless............ it showed me one thing..........

They are watching.............

There are flags I set off............

I will be more careful in the future...........

I did nothing illegal. I had no intention of doing anything illegal, but I still had federal agents show up to my door.

They are watching.........

************
The rules ethical agents follow are being broken by those without those same ethics. So yes the ATF does have the data. Someone in some office there does have the data and is breaking the rules just waiting for the rules to change.
Unless you are an FFL holder, the proper response is "get off my property unless you have a warrant". Then contact your lawyer.

If you have an 03 FFL, the proper response is "call me during working hours and make an appointment to view my bound book".
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 04-17-2021, 6:59 AM
MrFancyPants's Avatar
MrFancyPants MrFancyPants is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Salt Lake City
Posts: 1,130
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snoopy47 View Post
I suppose it depends on the ethics of certain agents.

I was visited by a federal AFT agent once. I was overly excited to have moved out of CA for a while, and went nuts at the gun store. So they visited me to make sure my purchases were not crossing over state lines as a straw purchase to less friendly states.

Anyway, he wanted to see I still possessed all the recent purchases. He had a hand written list of said purchases, and I thought it was kind of sad he couldn't easily do a print out. The list wasn't short.

So, did he ethically not have data stored on a server where he could just print it off or was this for show for my sake he had to hand jam all the data of my recent purchases.

************
Regardless............ it showed me one thing..........

They are watching.............

There are flags I set off............

I will be more careful in the future...........

I did nothing illegal. I had no intention of doing anything illegal, but I still had federal agents show up to my door.

They are watching.........

************
The rules ethical agents follow are being broken by those without those same ethics. So yes the ATF does have the data. Someone in some office there does have the data and is breaking the rules just waiting for the rules to change.
Your only response should have been "Do you have a warrant or proof of illegal activity? No? Then get bent. Have a nice day."
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04-17-2021, 7:36 AM
ozarkpugs@gmail.com ozarkpugs@gmail.com is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 173
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Endless View Post
Absolutely not.

Arizona has no law requiring firearms dealers to initiate background checks prior to transferring a firearm. ... As a result, concealed weapon permit holders in Arizona are exempt from the federal background check requirement when purchasing a handgun.

https://giffords.org/lawcenter/state...es-in-arizona/

Once again in liberal states who knows and probably.
In 2016 the ATF and Social security office requested State Police to turn over all the information on concealed carry holders ( to be sure no one who received mental treatment through medicare / medicaid had a gun ) . As far as I know Mo. is the only State that not only stopped it but took the information out of state police hands and gave it to the sheriff's office . If you are a ccw permit holder they already know all about you .

Sent from my LM-K920 using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 6:21 AM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2021, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.
All opinions, statements and remarks made by Calguns.net on this web site and elsewhere are solely attributable to Calguns.net.



Seams2SewBySusy