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Survival and Preparations Long and short term survival and 'prepping'.

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  #1  
Old 03-15-2014, 9:32 PM
problemchild problemchild is offline
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Default EPA banning wood burning stoves

EPA's Wood-Burning Stove Ban Has Chilling Consequences For Many Rural People


http://www.forbes.com/sites/larrybel...-rural-people/






It seems that even wood isn’t green or renewable enough anymore. The EPA has recently banned the production and sale of 80 percent of America’s current wood-burning stoves, the oldest heating method known to mankind and mainstay of rural homes and many of our nation’s poorest residents. The agency’s stringent one-size-fits-all rules apply equally to heavily air-polluted cities and far cleaner plus typically colder off-grid wilderness areas such as large regions of Alaska and the American West.
(Photo credit: DonkeyHotey)[/caption]

While EPA’s most recent regulations aren’t altogether new, their impacts will nonetheless be severe. Whereas restrictions had previously banned wood-burning stoves that didn’t limit fine airborne particulate emissions to 15 micrograms per cubic meter of air, the change will impose a maximum 12 microgram limit. To put this amount in context, EPA estimates that secondhand tobacco smoke in a closed car can expose a person to 3,000-4,000 micrograms of particulates per cubic meter.
Most wood stoves that warm cabin and home residents from coast-to-coast can’t meet that standard. Older stoves that don’t cannot be traded in for updated types, but instead must be rendered inoperable, destroyed, or recycled as scrap metal.
The impacts of EPA’s ruling will affect many families. According to the U.S. Census Bureau’s 2011 survey statistics, 2.4 million American housing units (12 percent of all homes) burned wood as their primary heating fuel, compared with 7 percent that depended upon fuel oil.
Local LOCM +0.74% governments in some states have gone even further than EPA, not only banning the sale of noncompliant stoves, but even their use as fireplaces. As a result, owners face fines for infractions. Puget Sound, Washington is one such location. Montréal, Canada proposes to eliminate all fireplaces within its city limits.
Only weeks after EPA enacted its new stove rules, attorneys general of seven states sued the agency to crack down on wood-burning water heaters as well. The lawsuit was filed by Connecticut, Maryland, Massachusetts, New York, Oregon, Rhode Island and Vermont, all predominately Democrat states. Claiming that EPA’s new regulations didn’t go far enough to decrease particle pollution levels, the plaintiffs cited agency estimates that outdoor wood boilers will produce more than 20 percent of wood-burning emissions by 2017. A related suit was filed by the environmental group Earth Justice.
Did EPA require a motivational incentive to tighten its restrictions? Sure, about as much as Br’er Rabbit needed to persuade Br’er Fox to throw him into the briar patch. This is but another example of EPA and other government agencies working with activist environmental groups to sue and settle on claims that afford leverage to enact new regulations which they lack statutory authority to otherwise accomplish.
“Sue and settle “ practices, sometimes referred to as “friendly lawsuits”, are cozy deals through which far-left radical environmental groups file lawsuits against federal agencies wherein court-ordered “consent decrees” are issued based upon a prearranged settlement agreement they collaboratively craft together in advance behind closed doors. Then, rather than allowing the entire process to play out, the agency being sued settles the lawsuit by agreeing to move forward with the requested action both they and the litigants want.
And who pays for this litigation? All-too-often we taxpayers are put on the hook for legal fees of both colluding parties. According to a 2011 GAO report, this amounted to millions of dollars awarded to environmental organizations for EPA litigations between 1995 and 2010. Three “Big Green” groups received 41% of this payback, with Earthjustice accounting for 30 percent ($4,655,425). Two other organizations with histories of lobbying for regulations EPA wants while also receiving agency funding are the American Lung Association (ALA) and the Sierra Club.
In addition, the Department of Justice forked over at least $43 million of our money defending EPA in court between 1998 and 2010. This didn’t include money spent by EPA for their legal costs in connection with those rip-offs because EPA doesn’t keep track of their attorney’s time on a case-by-case basis.
The U.S. Chamber of Commerce has concluded that Sue and Settle rulemaking is responsible for many of EPA’s “most controversial, economically significant regulations that have plagued the business community for the past few years”. Included are regulations on power plants, refineries, mining operations, cement plants, chemical manufacturers, and a host of other industries. Such consent decree-based rulemaking enables EPA to argue to Congress: “The court made us do it.”
Directing special attention to these congressional end run practices, Louisiana Senator David Vitter, top Republican on the Senate Environment and Public Works Committee, has launched an investigation. Last year he asked his Louisiana Attorney General Buddy Caldwell to join with AGs of 13 other states who filed a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) seeking all correspondence between EPA and a list of 80 environmental, labor union and public interest organizations that have been party to litigation since the start of the Obama administration.
Other concerned and impacted parties have little influence over such court procedures and decisions. While the environmental group is given a seat at the table, outsiders who are most impacted are excluded, with no opportunity to object to the settlements. No public notice about the settlement is released until the agreement is filed in court…after the damage has been done.
In a letter to Caldwell, Senator Vitter wrote: “The collusion between federal bureaucrats and the organizations entering consent agreements under a shroud of secrecy represents the antithesis of a transparent government, and your participation in the FOIA request will help Louisianans understand the process by which these settlements were reached.”
Fewer citizens would challenge EPA’s regulatory determinations were it not for its lack of accountability and transparency in accomplishing through a renegade pattern of actions what they cannot achieve through democratic legislative processes.

A recent example sets unachievable CO2 emission limits for new power plants. As I reported in my January 14 column, a group within EPA’s own Science Advisory Board (SAB) determined that the studies upon which that regulation was based had never been responsibly peer reviewed, and that there was no evidence that those limits can be accomplished using available technology.
Compared with huge consequences of EPA’s regulatory war on coal, the fuel source that provides more than 40 percent of America’s electricity, a clamp-down on humble residential wood-burning stoves and future water heaters may seem to many people as a merely a trifling or inconsequential matter. That is, unless it happens to significantly affect your personal life.
As a Washington Times editorial emphasized, the ban is of great concern to many families in cold remote off-grid locations. It noted, for example, that “Alaska’s 663,000 square miles is mostly forestland, offering residents and abundant source of affordable firewood. When county officials floated a plan to regulate the burning of wood, residents were understandably inflamed.”
Quoting Representative Tammie Wilson speaking to the Associated Press, the Times reported: “Everyone wants clean air. We just want to make sure that we can also heat our homes” Wilson continued: “Rather than fret over EPA’s computer – model – based warning about the dangers of inhaling soot from wood smoke, residents have more pressing concerns on their minds as the immediate risk of freezing when the mercury plunges.”
And speaking of theoretical computer model-based warnings, where’s that global warming when we really need it?

Last edited by problemchild; 03-15-2014 at 9:37 PM..
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Old 03-15-2014, 9:40 PM
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Elections have consequences. 5 yrs of Obama and his political appointments, 3 more yrs to go.
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Old 03-15-2014, 9:46 PM
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Elections have consequences. 5 yrs of Obama and his political appointments, 3 more yrs to go.
Nailed it right on The head
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Old 03-15-2014, 9:58 PM
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This is to chase everyone into the cities...only backwards crazy people live I the woods.

Good thing I read Asimov's stories when I was a kid.
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Old 03-15-2014, 10:05 PM
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Ban the EPA!!!! They are the wost eco terrorists there are!!!

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Old 03-15-2014, 10:36 PM
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This is to chase everyone into the cities...only backwards crazy people live I the woods.

Good thing I read Asimov's stories when I was a kid.
They are doing tons of things to get you off your rural land.


Raising gas prices so you cannot afford to drive the distance.
Going after land as "endangered species" living on it.
Imminent domain, seizing land for no good reason.
Forcing inheritance receivers into extreme non-use deals.
Shutting off water
Fining land owners if they try and build to the tune of 75,000/day.
No right of land owners to fight in court.

And on and on...........
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Old 03-15-2014, 11:16 PM
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Originally Posted by SWalt View Post
Elections have consequences. 5 yrs of Obama and his political appointments, 3 more yrs to go.
Not quite. The EPA has been whittling down the number of approved wood-burning fireplaces for a while now... well before Obama was ever elected. The California Regional Air Quality Control Board is leading the way on it. It's been a long time since you could install a brick & mortar fireplace. Now, you need a unit that is approved. They typically are insert type units & have an actual catalytic converter of sorts in the flue.

I guess they think all that smog in LA is from wood burning fireplaces
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Old 03-16-2014, 6:32 AM
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Crap, there go my plans to move to the mountains, and in a free state!
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Old 03-16-2014, 8:38 AM
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BBQs are up soon.
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Old 03-16-2014, 8:56 AM
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So 300 MILLION people all burning wood has NO consequences. Perhaps we should burn coal. Seems to have worked out well for China.
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Old 03-16-2014, 9:00 AM
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My last home had central heating because the only source of heat, a wood stove, was in the center of the house and normal toilets, regular shower heads, etc. Maybe I should go back and replace all those things with modern crap and keep the old ones for the growing black market for them.
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Old 03-16-2014, 9:08 AM
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So 300 MILLION people all burning wood has NO consequences. Perhaps we should burn coal. Seems to have worked out well for China.
Because that's residential heating that created their problem... not industrial.
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Old 03-16-2014, 9:47 AM
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Originally Posted by furyous68 View Post
Not quite. The EPA has been whittling down the number of approved wood-burning fireplaces for a while now... well before Obama was ever elected. The California Regional Air Quality Control Board is leading the way on it. It's been a long time since you could install a brick & mortar fireplace. Now, you need a unit that is approved. They typically are insert type units & have an actual catalytic converter of sorts in the flue.

I guess they think all that smog in LA is from wood burning fireplaces
True, but his cronies accelerate the whole process. CA is worse, lots of business' chased out of the state. They have the power and agenda. Tweak regulations as much as possible, and support legislation for more restrictions. Has anyone else noticed that with the restrictions that cases of disease purported to be affected by pollution never goes down? You always hear about cases of asthma going up not down. Personally, I think the science is mostly bunk, just another way to keep a bureaucracy's funding up and jobs perpetuated.
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Old 03-16-2014, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by CAL.BAR View Post
So 300 MILLION people all burning wood has NO consequences. Perhaps we should burn coal. Seems to have worked out well for China.
Do you even know what the 3 largest contributors to air pollution are and where homes / fire places and stoves rank?

1. Cars
2. Ag
3. Industry

Homes aren't even a blip on the radar but don't let that stop one from regulating.
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Old 03-16-2014, 10:23 AM
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This is how the game is played, especially when someone of Obama's ilk is in charge. Stack the deck, get your cronies to agree, pass the regulation. Obama is on record as saying he is in favor of raising prices on energy to cut pollution, stringent regulation is how its done.


Quote:
Senator Vitter wrote: “The collusion between federal bureaucrats and the organizations entering consent agreements under a shroud of secrecy represents the antithesis of a transparent government, and your participation in the FOIA request will help Louisianans understand the process by which these settlements were reached.”
Fewer citizens would challenge EPA’s regulatory determinations were it not for its lack of accountability and transparency in accomplishing through a renegade pattern of actions what they cannot achieve through democratic legislative processes.
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Old 03-16-2014, 11:51 AM
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Awww come on guys they must write a new law every 3 minutes! It's job security!
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Old 03-16-2014, 2:19 PM
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Originally Posted by SWalt View Post
True, but his cronies accelerate the whole process. CA is worse, lots of business' chased out of the state. They have the power and agenda. Tweak regulations as much as possible, and support legislation for more restrictions. Has anyone else noticed that with the restrictions that cases of disease purported to be affected by pollution never goes down? You always hear about cases of asthma going up not down. Personally, I think the science is mostly bunk, just another way to keep a bureaucracy's funding up and jobs perpetuated.
unsupported statement.
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Old 03-16-2014, 4:23 PM
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unsupported statement.
It looked to me like he purported his beliefs, did not state them as fact, and is just as much correct as your unsubstantiated disbelief.
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Old 03-16-2014, 6:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SWalt View Post
True, but his cronies accelerate the whole process. CA is worse, lots of business' chased out of the state. They have the power and agenda. Tweak regulations as much as possible, and support legislation for more restrictions. Has anyone else noticed that with the restrictions that cases of disease purported to be affected by pollution never goes down? You always hear about cases of asthma going up not down. Personally, I think the science is mostly bunk, just another way to keep a bureaucracy's funding up and jobs perpetuated.
The reason why it doesn't go down is not because of the pollution. It continues to increase because modern medicine has enabled people who through natural selection to live and breed passing on weaker genes.
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Old 03-16-2014, 6:47 PM
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i got an old preban one

the problem is that people are going to just make them and the latest ones they make have really neat technology to burn the smoke clean of most pollutants
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Old 03-16-2014, 10:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Ripon83 View Post
It looked to me like he purported his beliefs, did not state them as fact, and is just as much correct as your unsubstantiated disbelief.
Now let me substantiate this statement.....TRUE. My sig line explains my general internet position.

But we can see what some experts think about rising rates of asthma.....

Quote:
Children from dirtier East Germany, she was shocked to find, had dramatically less asthma than their West German counterparts living in cleaner, more modern circumstances.
Quote:
But the short answer to the question of why asthma has increased, according to Pearce, von Mutius, Rodrigues and many others, is, “We don’t know.”
http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...oaring/?page=1

But hey....they will continue to scare people with "you want clean air don't you??" when the air is plenty clean and continue to shut down industry. Its all A OK.
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Old 03-17-2014, 11:06 PM
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lol just another reason to not follow the epa rules. "If a law is immoral one should not only dissobey it but one is oblagated to so f*&$ the EPA", Thomas jefferson. emphasis is myn if they dont know you have it you should be fine just beware they can do self writen warrents lol.
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Old 03-17-2014, 11:34 PM
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Are you able to put in more than 10 logs if the stove was built before 2000?
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Old 03-28-2014, 7:16 PM
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More like agenda 21.
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Old 03-28-2014, 7:45 PM
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More like agenda 21.
++1
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Old 03-28-2014, 9:24 PM
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I don't think you are forced to get rid of or upgrade existing stoves, anymore than I need to get rid of my brick and mortar fireplace.
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Old 03-28-2014, 9:26 PM
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Originally Posted by SWalt View Post
Elections have consequences. 5 yrs of Obama and his political appointments, 3 more yrs to go.
they sure do and many people fail to realize it. now we pay for that ignorance.
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Old 03-28-2014, 9:27 PM
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Originally Posted by jdben92883 View Post
Are you able to put in more than 10 logs if the stove was built before 2000?
yes any more than that would mean an assault wood burning stove.
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Public Safety Chairman Reggie Jones Sawyer, D-Los Angeles said, “This is California; we don’t pay too much attention to the Constitution,”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6Dj8tdSC1A
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Old 03-28-2014, 9:34 PM
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You will assimilate with the new Global Society or you will either starve or freeze until you come, hat in hand, into the fold.

Or die.

That's your HOPE.
That's your CHANGE.
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Old 03-30-2014, 8:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdben92883 View Post
Are you able to put in more than 10 logs if the stove was built before 2000?

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Old 03-30-2014, 11:52 PM
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Originally Posted by CAL.BAR View Post
So 300 MILLION people all burning wood has NO consequences. Perhaps we should burn coal. Seems to have worked out well for China.
Wow. Way to very exaggerate something. your saying every person in this country is burning wood? Are you a progressive? Or a liberal? Because you sure do over exaggerate like one
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Old 03-31-2014, 7:24 AM
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First, the left (epa) will try to make dairy farms/cows taxed(fart regulators) so heavily, that prices of meat/dairy will reduce worldwide consumption of said products.
Its happening.
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Old 03-31-2014, 9:03 AM
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And the Nixon legacy lives on!
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Old 03-31-2014, 9:14 AM
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Up here in Shasta County, Wood burning stoves are still allowed in the county but must meet EPA requirements. No wood burning stoves have been allowed in the city limits for some time now. Residents can still use older existing fireplaces and wood stoves in city limits though. I've had a raging fire going on for days now.
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Old 03-31-2014, 9:25 AM
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Jimi Jah Jimi Jah is offline
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Legal incinerators were outlawed in LA back in the 1950's. The reasons are still there, cleaner air has more rights than citizens.

The administration is fully aware of that fact.
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Old 03-31-2014, 11:09 AM
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This is so insane, this is how I heat my home every winter. While I have central heat, burning wood is much more efficient, not to mention basically free. Go for it ban woodstoves, I will not comply. I know that none of my neighbors will either.

If the EPA wants to ban wood stoves, are they going to ban large prescribed burns next, what about people (like me) that have pile burns every spring to mitigate fire danger?

There are way more of us than them, non compliance is the way to go.
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