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2nd Amend. Litigation Updates & Legal Discussion Discuss California 2A related litigation and legal topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 03-11-2014, 6:54 PM
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Thumbs down What's up w/Marin Co Sheriff Robert Doyle and Peruta???

Marin County Sheriff Robert T. Doyle



Ck out 2/27 ("Brief of Amici Curiae ... Marin County Sheriff Robert Doyle In Support of Attorney General’s Motion for Intervention"), and 3/5 ("Motion of Amici Curiae ... Marin County Sheriff Robert Doyle for Leave to File Amicus Brief") at:
http://michellawyers.com/guncasetrac...rutavsandiego/

Does Marin Co SO really have so much extra time, money, and manpower (because there's too little crime and poverty in Marin) that they want to butt into Peruta?

Should our side add Marin Co SO and Sheriff Doyle to the ever shrinking list of "last holdout" counties that require legal "special attention"?

Last edited by Paladin; 03-12-2014 at 6:26 AM..
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Old 03-11-2014, 7:10 PM
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You realize that the Law Center likely wrote up "Sheriff ______ of _______ County" and replace name and county name and asked for volunteers and the sheriff literally did no work, right?
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Old 03-11-2014, 7:15 PM
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Sheriff Doyle has many times, in public, on the record and on the golf course, declared that he will not issue CCWs.

FWIW, it's my understanding that he has returned campaign contributions once it was discovered that the donor expected a CCW in return.

The man is a principled, honest and completely dedicated anti-2A senior law enforcement official of an incredibly wealthy, incredibly liberal, incredibly anti-gun enclave of the Left Coast. He'll be re-elected as long as he decides to run for office.

Don't be surprised if the Marin County Board of Supervisors is providing him some assistance on some level - there's not a person holding elected office that supports CCW in this county.

Peruta, if it stands, will make their heads explode. They will be a final, if not the final, holdout.

Here's hoping it stands!
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Old 03-11-2014, 7:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gray Peterson View Post
You realize that the Law Center likely wrote up "Sheriff ______ of _______ County" and replace name and county name and asked for volunteers and the sheriff literally did no work, right?
Now don't get all on me!

Next you'll say Bloomberg will reimburse the county and Law Center any cost....
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Old 03-11-2014, 7:34 PM
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God forbid the few law-abiding citizens of Marin City get to defend themselves.
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Old 03-11-2014, 7:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gray Peterson View Post
You realize that the Law Center likely wrote up "Sheriff ______ of _______ County" and replace name and county name and asked for volunteers and the sheriff literally did no work, right?
Doyle and his ilk are still dirtbags.



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Old 03-11-2014, 7:37 PM
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Doyle will find out the hard way how badly a court order stings.
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Old 03-11-2014, 9:19 PM
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Its all the heavily populated Bay Area counties...SF, Marin, Santa Clara, CoCo, etc. No urban sheriff in these parts appears to endorse the carry of firearms by mere plebes.
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Old 03-11-2014, 9:40 PM
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Doyle and his ilk are still dirtbags.



Never said they weren't. I fully agree.

Tupac Shakur's disses at the end of a song from his song "I Don't Give a ****" features a diss, saying "**** you to the Marin County Sheriff's Department". Considering Robert Doyle was the undersheriff at that time, it was likely he was talking about Doyle's troops and his style of policing.
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Old 03-11-2014, 9:48 PM
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Marin doesn't have the population, or the population density, of the counties you note. Outside of the relatively population density of the 101 corridor, there isn't much except sheep and cows....and an incredible amount of Open Space/Parks/Land Trusts...

The vast majority of the folks living here are really rich [southern Marin] liberals or dependent on the government [Marin City, San Rafael Canal area].

I heard that 40% of the population in Marin doesn't work. Trust-fund babies, folks on the dole...it boggles the mind. Sean Penn lives here. 'Nuff said.


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Its all the heavily populated Bay Area counties...SF, Marin, Santa Clara, CoCo, etc. No urban sheriff in these parts appears to endorse the carry of firearms by mere plebes.
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Old 03-11-2014, 10:48 PM
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Originally Posted by LeftCoastShooter View Post
They will be a final, if not the final, holdout.
We're happy to have them make compelled contributions to the Foundation. We find that cooler heads in County Counsel's office prevail when kicking them in court is a foregone conclusion.

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  #12  
Old 03-12-2014, 6:53 AM
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its always a nice feeling to be in san rafael knowing their jaws would hit the floor if they knew we were carrying. great mt biking out there.
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  #13  
Old 03-12-2014, 7:14 AM
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In light of his participation in the LCAV brief, it seems clear that Sheriff Doyle won’t move without having Peruta finalized. We may never know if this is a political calculation or if he’s a true believer.

As it stands, the sheriff’s website has no published policy. Searching elsewhere turned up this gem from 1999.

http://www.ninehundred.com/~equalccw...npolicies.html

If you look at http://www.marinsheriff.org/, you are instructed to email your completed application.

Since I don’t believe that the sheriff will issue before Peruta is finalized, I’m waiting for that. Then I intend to apply. I expect him to play games with at least GMC if not other things.

I’d be curious to know if any Calgunner had applied or at least called?

Also, the Marin thread is locked…
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=352764
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Old 03-12-2014, 7:51 AM
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I think there is a whole lotta Calguns members here who don't quite understand Marin County and its history.

Having Doyles name in this is not even surprising to me. Marin is the one county that really houses the fruits and nuts for San Francisco.

Its also home to out beloved Senator Barbara Boxer and MANY anti gun activists.
Almost everyone in Marin has an agenda or is an activist to save the world.
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  #15  
Old 03-12-2014, 10:14 AM
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I’d be curious to know if any Calgunner had applied or at least called?
I had an email exchange with him. It was very clear that he intends to delay as long as possible.
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Old 03-12-2014, 10:41 AM
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LOL - and I look forward to you making them cough up their carefully-hoarded $$.

It's good to know how much you've done for us. If/when I get in a position to make donations, you will be at the top of my list. Thanks again!

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We're happy to have them make compelled contributions to the Foundation. We find that cooler heads in County Counsel's office prevail when kicking them in court is a foregone conclusion.

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  #17  
Old 03-12-2014, 11:04 AM
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I had an email exchange with him. It was very clear that he intends to delay as long as possible.
Thanks, I thought as much.
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  #18  
Old 03-12-2014, 12:12 PM
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Sonoma and Marin county sheriffs must talk because Freitas (SoCo) is also holding out until Peruta is finalized, including putting erroneous information on the website to discourage applicants.

http://www.sonomasheriff.org/ccw.php
Quote:
On 2/28/2014, the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals decided to withdraw their decision in the above case by a decision to rehear the case En Banc. The Court has ordered a stay on the issuance of their previous mandate from 2/13/2014, which only required an applicant to state a need of “self defense” as their reason for desiring a CCW License. Therefore, as of 2/28/14 the Sonoma County Sheriff’s Office will revert back to requiring all applicants to supplement the “good cause” statement for the CCW License in accord with Sonoma County Sheriff’s Office Policy 219 and California Penal Code section 26150(a)(2).
WTF!
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  #19  
Old 03-12-2014, 1:21 PM
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I guess the sheriff makes an exception for Sean Penn (CCW)
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Old 03-12-2014, 8:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeftCoastShooter View Post
Marin doesn't have the population, or the population density, of the counties you note. Outside of the relatively population density of the 101 corridor, there isn't much except sheep and cows....and an incredible amount of Open Space/Parks/Land Trusts...

The vast majority of the folks living here are really rich [southern Marin] liberals or dependent on the government [Marin City, San Rafael Canal area].

I heard that 40% of the population in Marin doesn't work. Trust-fund babies, folks on the dole...it boggles the mind. Sean Penn lives here. 'Nuff said.
Yes, you're right. I shouldn't lump Marin in with the high density counties. It isn't like SF or Alameda in almost any way and yet there is that same super-liberal attitude/reputation that is being reinforced by the sheriff.
Perhaps Marin needs to embrace it's rural side?
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Old 03-12-2014, 8:46 PM
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Being a long-term Marinite with some experience in the ways of the "real world" I feel safe in saying that Marin's farmers and rural residents [Bolinas? Inverness? Marshall?] aren't the country folk one might find in Pennsylvania, Illinois, Colorado or Texas. I'm not sure if they're any more conservative or pro-2A than their citified cousins.

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Yes, you're right. I shouldn't lump Marin in with the high density counties. It isn't like SF or Alameda in almost any way and yet there is that same super-liberal attitude/reputation that is being reinforced by the sheriff.
Perhaps Marin needs to embrace it's rural side?
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Old 03-13-2014, 8:20 AM
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There really arent very many true farmers/rural people in Marin. There a a handful, but most of the people living outside of the cities are no different than those living in the city except they want to have a little land around them AKA privacy.
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Old 03-13-2014, 10:34 AM
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I don't think Marin is nearly as anti-gun as people think. When I strike up conversations with folks I'm much more likely to get a positive response than negative. That said, the folks who are favorably disposed to gun rights don't have it anywhere near the top of their issue stack so it's not going to sway their vote against a candidate they otherwise support.
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Old 03-13-2014, 12:00 PM
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I don't think Marin is nearly as anti-gun as people think. When I strike up conversations with folks I'm much more likely to get a positive response than negative. That said, the folks who are favorably disposed to gun rights don't have it anywhere near the top of their issue stack so it's not going to sway their vote against a candidate they otherwise support.
yeah, depends on what people think. Its not SF or LA thats for sure, but its not Butte County either. There are laws on the books which intend to prevent online ammo purchases, but there are also several more gun stores than the county of SF.
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Old 03-13-2014, 8:39 PM
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Doyle may also be thinking of a career at some point outside of being a Sheriff, but at this point I will concur with others in that though there are many in Marin whom are 2A congruent, but Marin will need to be shown the way via legal precedence above them. They will need to be forced to see the light. I can go on and on about Marin and culture, but it is just yappin in the breeze anyway...
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Old 03-19-2014, 10:31 PM
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But it's all cool for Sean Penn to be issued a CCW? I guess it's because he is so responsible.........oh wait, he lost his Glock (which Penn misspelled as "Glok" in his application) when he left in the car in Berkely. But I guess it's all cool again as it seems he's packing a Glock in Haiti.....oh wait, I guess he melted it down for charity or something like that.
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Old 03-20-2014, 6:12 AM
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But it's all cool for Sean Penn to be issued a CCW? I guess it's because he is so responsible.........oh wait, he lost his Glock (which Penn misspelled as "Glok" in his application) when he left in the car in Berkely. But I guess it's all cool again as it seems he's packing a Glock in Haiti.....oh wait, I guess he melted it down for charity or something like that.
IIRC Ross PD was the issuing agency for that particular permit. Your other points are well taken.
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Old 03-20-2014, 6:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeanC View Post
I don't think Marin is nearly as anti-gun as people think. When I strike up conversations with folks I'm much more likely to get a positive response than negative. That said, the folks who are favorably disposed to gun rights don't have it anywhere near the top of their issue stack so it's not going to sway their vote against a candidate they otherwise support.
Whether or not Marin in 2014 is anti-gun is debatable, but your experience illustrates why there's really no such thing as a pro 2A democrat. It seems everybody's a single issue voter, and for democrats it's usually one of two things.
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Old 04-06-2014, 2:29 PM
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I live in Marin, and most the people I know, either hunt, fish, or do both. We are all watching with extreme interest.

On the off note, I believe Sean Penn got his CCW from the chief of police in Ross, before all of the CCW's were referred to th MCSO.
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Old 04-06-2014, 8:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mixer152 View Post
I live in Marin, and most the people I know, either hunt, fish, or do both. We are all watching with extreme interest.

On the off note, I believe Sean Penn got his CCW from the chief of police in Ross, before all of the CCW's were referred to th MCSO.
yeah, either ross or Kent Chief of police - after a nice contribution of course.
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Old 04-07-2014, 7:05 AM
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The Chronicle story on Sean Penn's permit:

http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/matier...it-2651756.php

It was Ross PD - IIRC Kentfield is covered by MCSO (substation on Drake at College Avenue).
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Old 04-08-2014, 10:16 AM
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I have personal knowledge regarding Sheriff Doyle and CCW issuance. Based on that information, I can say with confidence that he will not generally issue CCWs until forced to do so. I think that if Peruta is upheld in appeal, he will comply without a suit if County Counsel advises him that further resistance is futile. He will comply with the law when there is no further possibility of appeal. From long association with him, the description of him in the quote below is right on target:

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeftCoastShooter View Post
Sheriff Doyle has many times, in public, on the record and on the golf course, declared that he will not issue CCWs.

FWIW, it's my understanding that he has returned campaign contributions once it was discovered that the donor expected a CCW in return.

The man is a principled, honest and completely dedicated anti-2A senior law enforcement official of an incredibly wealthy, incredibly liberal, incredibly anti-gun enclave of the Left Coast. He'll be re-elected as long as he decides to run for office.
He is capable of revising his opinions in the face of overwhelming evidence. An example would be the case in which he told the Deputy Sheriff's Association that Marin deputies would never carry semi-automatic pistols. Not long afterwards, the Department transitioned to Glocks. I think the same thought process will take place concerning Peruta if the case survives appeal.
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Old 04-10-2014, 9:28 PM
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Oh that guy Sheriff Doyle is about as anti gun maximum level as maximum level can get and not get runoff.

But... good news.

Looks like Gene has keys to the spillway.

Good luck to you...

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Old 04-11-2014, 5:16 PM
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I have had two sit downs a with Undersheriff Ridgeway in Marin County regarding my concealed carry application that I put in the day after the original court decision.

His secretary, Stacy, informed me that the depatment was going to proceed with their original "good cause" policy before I went in for my first meeting. When I sat with Ridgeway the first time, he mentioned they were abiding by the new law. I was missing DMV records for my application, and when I finally obtained them and sat down with Ridgeway a second time, (Wednesday the 9th of April) he said they are back to their original policy and that my application would be declined..

He did say that there was a stay on the new law because it is going to appeal again, but from what I can tell that is not true, and Doyle is just proceeding under the assumption that the law will be overturned.....

Last edited by TyColt; 04-11-2014 at 5:20 PM..
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Old 04-12-2014, 1:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TyColt View Post
I have had two sit downs a with Undersheriff Ridgeway in Marin County regarding my concealed carry application that I put in the day after the original court decision.

His secretary, Stacy, informed me that the depatment was going to proceed with their original "good cause" policy before I went in for my first meeting. When I sat with Ridgeway the first time, he mentioned they were abiding by the new law. I was missing DMV records for my application, and when I finally obtained them and sat down with Ridgeway a second time, (Wednesday the 9th of April) he said they are back to their original policy and that my application would be declined..

He did say that there was a stay on the new law because it is going to appeal again, but from what I can tell that is not true, and Doyle is just proceeding under the assumption that the law will be overturned.....
Just curious - is this Ridgeway the same Ridgeway who was head of Ross PD when Sean Penn got his permit?
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Old 04-13-2014, 2:27 AM
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I love it. Agency can ignore laws that it feels it should be able to overturn on appeal, but we had to obey SF's ban on legally acquired magazines while it is challenged.
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Old 04-13-2014, 7:12 AM
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Oh that guy Sheriff Doyle is about as anti gun maximum level as maximum level can get and not get runoff.

But... good news.

Looks like Gene has keys to the spillway.

Good luck to you...

When you get your LTC, it will change how you see yourself, it will change how you see the world... in a good way.


IIRC, Gene has had a San Mateo SO CCW for a few years now....
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  #38  
Old 04-22-2014, 12:47 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Marin County, Bay Area, CA
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Hi *******. The Federal Appeals Court Ruling that occurred on February 13, 2014, is being appealed. Until we have some clarity on the decision the Sheriff has decided to continue with our current policy.

I would be happy to send you a copy of the policy. Also if you want to complete an application you can download it off of our website. Return it to me and I will set up an appointment with Undersheriff Ridgway and we can take it from there.

These are done on a case-by-case basis.

Please let me know if I can do anything else.


Thank you.



Stacy J. Bakke

Sheriff's Secretary

415 473-7252 sbakke@marinsheriff.org
Above is the reply from the communication I have had with MCSO.
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