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Survival and Preparations Long and short term survival and 'prepping'.

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  #41  
Old 02-20-2014, 7:51 AM
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Sometimes you will hear the claim that a locked 2WD equals an open 4WD, but this is not even close to being true.

MAXIMUM traction

- locked 2WD - two wheels
- open 4WD - four wheels

One wheel spins

- locked 2WD - one wheel
- open 4WD - two wheels

Two wheels spin

- locked 2WD - no wheels (stuck)
- open 4WD - no wheels (stuck)

But even in this last case, unless a front and a rear wheel slip on the open 4WD at the exact same time, there will still be two wheels propelling the vehicle forward, allowing the spinning wheel to grip on something. If traction is a concern, 4WD always beats 2WD.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshua Tree View Post
A 4x4 will have a low gear range option in the transfer case.
This too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cypriss32 View Post
4wd all the time. Not only is it more useful, but the parts are heavier duty. I've owned about 20 trucks. 4 started as 2wd and became 4x4 because all 2wd **** is so small and weak. Buy once, when you need it you will be thankful you have it.
And this.
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  #42  
Old 02-20-2014, 7:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mnichols View Post
4x4 just means you can get stuck in worse places
Attachment 304997
Not really. In most cases, a driver can use the 2x4 until you need the 4x4 option. It also doesn't help to drive a 6000 lb. truck on the cheapest tires that the manufacturer can toss on a truck. One must still use their brains and experience.

4x4 is easier on the terra firma as well.
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  #43  
Old 02-20-2014, 7:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NytWolf View Post
Ahhh ... conditionals in theoreticals.

I have a 4x4 but seldom use it. That's because I have aggressive offroad tires, plus I know how to drive off road.

If you know what you're doing, you can get to most places with either vehicle. The 4x4, tires, lift, winch, lockers, all that stuff is for "just in case" situations. But all that equipment mentioned, the only thing that gets you out of situations is the winch. Everything else gets you INTO situations.



A locked Toyota. (This is a gun forum, so that was in good jest.)

Toyotas do great and we've rescued some, but we've rescued just as many stock jeeps. And like you, I run a lot of trails in 2wd. But once it gets steep and loose 4wd is way smoother. My lockers rarely go on, but when they do I'm pretty happy to have them. I've never needed the winch for me. But there is always someone out there stuck pretty bad that's been happy to see it.

The OP question, though lacking details about what kind of off roading, was pretty straight forward. Which would do better for you?
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  #44  
Old 02-20-2014, 8:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve_In_29 View Post
Define "off-road"?
I was leaving Casper WY on October and driving to catch a flight in Salt Lake...

About 8-10" of snow was on the highway... We waited until two big rigs came along and then fell in behind them to ride in their tracks and they were compacting the snow...

Even with that help, I kept the Explorer in 4H and drove along between 40-45MPH. At one point I thought the snow was light enough to switch back into 2H and the explorer got squirley... so back into 4H....


You can do a lot with 2WD but 4 has a lot of advantages....

And when off roading- 2 WD going in... 4 WD to get out as needed
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Old 02-20-2014, 8:26 AM
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You usually have a better chance with 4wd . Even better when you have locking differentials all around. But then an idiot with either is still an idiot. You drive in 2wd then hopefully the 4wd may allow you to get out , but it is not magic.
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  #46  
Old 02-20-2014, 8:34 AM
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My work truck is 4x4 with aggressive mud terrain off road tires, creeping up a steep gravel levee, it will start spinning in 2x. You need 4x4,then it crawls up just fine without leaving a mark.
I could get up the levee just fine in 2x if needed,but I would be repairing the levee road after.
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  #47  
Old 02-20-2014, 9:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 11HE9 View Post
Except for a geared & locked Landcruiser

















Couldn't resist

Top heavy and over weight.......but its better than any honda/yotor soccermom suv nowadays.
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  #48  
Old 02-20-2014, 9:25 AM
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sure, with the right amount of skill, torque, and a locker a 2wd can go where a 4wd can go, but the 4wd will be way easier times getting to the same place.
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  #49  
Old 02-20-2014, 9:54 AM
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2x4 will get you there.

4x4 will get you back.

2x4 won't get to that place in the avatar.
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  #50  
Old 02-20-2014, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by therealnickb View Post
The OP question, though lacking details about what kind of off roading, was pretty straight forward. Which would do better for you?
The 4x4 makes everything easier. How's that?

But in the tradition of the OP's question, a 4x4 with standard tires and a 4x2 with offroad tires can be pretty close in the hands of a skilled driver.
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  #51  
Old 02-20-2014, 11:45 AM
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I've been on some pretty crappy terrain with my Prerunner and made it through fine, but not without some stress. If any of you have been on Calcite Mine Trail in Anza Borrego, I'd say that's approaching the limits of 2wd with some occasional locker use when LSD doesn't seem to want to figure it out. I'd drive on a trail like that for days if I knew of one long enough. It's all about wheel placement and pedal pressure.

My truck is stock, and it has been up to the radio towers on Superstition Mountain where my brother's open diff 4wd Tundra has gotten stuck.
Aggressive is the word when driving on loose and soft stuff. You've got to keep your momentum up or you're screwed. Unfortunately, there will always be those moments where you have to take your foot off the gas, and those are the times you're going to get stuck. So carry a HiLift jack and sand ladders(even homemade ones).
That said, this is the type of driving I had in mind when I bought this truck. I just wanted to have something that would go places my little Acura Integra wouldn't go and allow me to have some serious fun in the process. As it turns out, it does a lot more than I thought it could, but still falls way short of a 4wd in 4wd conditions. Don't sell your little Prerunner short. Just keep in mind that desert washes and groomed dirt roads are where the Prerunner flies.
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  #52  
Old 02-20-2014, 12:05 PM
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Its also important to air down. I have a co2 tank to fill up when I'm running in the dez or crawling around.

I keep a "the source" setup and can air up in 5mins 10-15 to 40ish psi. I have E range tires for the weight of my truck.
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  #53  
Old 02-20-2014, 3:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by problemchild View Post
What most don't know is this:

2x2 = 1 wheel drive
4x4= 2 wheel drive

Unless the truck has lockers or limited slip then its a 3 wheel drive as the limited slip is in the rear not front on most trucks. You would need a locker in front and limited slip or locker in rear to have a real 4x4.
An lsd is pretty much useless in an offroad condition especially if the clutches are worn out. And add bigger heavier rubber, that lsd will not have enough pressure to hold together to transfer that energy to that one wheel that needs it the most. Lockers ftw. Many people confuse lsd/posi as lockers. Definitely not the same.
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  #54  
Old 02-20-2014, 5:08 PM
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I now have a dedicated 4WD vehicle.

I used to have an Explorer that I could switch between 2WD and 4WD. On mud, sand and snow, it made a big difference.

You can do a lot with 2WD with aggressive tires and airing down and good experience. But all things being equal (particularly the driver), 4WD will win out every time.

By the way, IMHO, comparing a 2WD with aggressive tires with a 4WD with street tires makes little sense. That said, last weekend, I drove by a 2WD vehicle with aggressive tires stuck in sand in my 4WD with street tires. (It was a family trip to Anza Borrego, so we didn't do anything too crazy.)
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  #55  
Old 02-20-2014, 5:21 PM
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After years of 2 wd and fwd and 4X4 I only have 4X4's Fuel mileage sucks but it is so much nicer than getting chains out or a high lift jack, or shoveling and placing dunnage under the tires.

Life is too short not to have 4X4 especially in SHTF situation.
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  #56  
Old 02-20-2014, 7:57 PM
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It is like insurance. You hope you never need it but very happy you have it when you do need it. I don't leave home without 4wd. my current and last 2 trucks had it. Just purchased some Toyo Open Country AT 2 tires and feel very comfortable wherever I go.
http://toyotires.com/tire/pattern/op...-terrain-tires
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  #57  
Old 02-20-2014, 8:44 PM
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I have a '93 Ford Ranger with 4 wheel drive that helps a lot with winter trips to Oregon. The fun comes when I take the Prius off road. It has made a few trips to Cow Mountain in the winter where people were amazed it made it. Fun passing Jeeps that were spinning tires. A lot of it comes down to picking the right line.

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  #58  
Old 02-20-2014, 9:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mnichols View Post
4x4 just means you can get stuck in worse places
Attachment 304997
Or get out of worse places. I hit this soft sand unexpectedly while in 2WD. After about a half hour of airing down and digging out the tires, I was able to continue on my merry way through several hundred more yards of similar terrain. Then down the beach for several miles til we stopped for the night.

This was about 50 miles south of San Felipe in Baja, so no cell, no AAA and LOTS of walking had I not got out.
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  #59  
Old 02-20-2014, 9:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoldierLife7 View Post
It doesn't matter how capable the vehicle is if the driver isn't capable.
Not entirely true, a properly setup vehicle can crutch a poor driver quite a bit. My grandson (that's him in the pic) drove my Early Bronco (behind him) over the entire Gold Mountain Trail in Big Bear, CA at 8 years old.

Locked F/R, automatic trans, 35" tires, 4:30 gears.

On this trip over the Mojave Road, he drove the Ranger the whole way as long as we were off the paved road (which was MOST of the trip).
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  #60  
Old 02-20-2014, 9:56 PM
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LOL so true.

4 wheel drive doesn't mean anything if you don't have lockers. Without lockers you can get stuck if 1 front tire and 1 rear tire don't have any traction because the power is applied to the tire with the least resistance. Most 4x4 vehicles come stock with some sort of locking differentials but its something you should look into. Your 2 wheel drive truck more likely then not wont have a locking diff. So if 1 drive tire is off the ground or your stuck in the mud its not going to be easy to get out.

I would get some slightly larger than stock all-terrains for your 4x4 and lockers if your truck doesn't have them already. Next you should look at a highlift jack. I think Harbor Freight sells them for around $50 and they can be used as a manual winch if you do get stuck. If you dont have much experience off-roading the most important parts are wheel placement and knowing where your diff is. The # 1 cause of newbies getting stuck is getting hung up of a their rear diff.

Hope this help OP
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  #61  
Old 02-21-2014, 6:47 AM
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Depends on where you plan on heading.

Some of the roads I travel every year can't be done realiably with a 2WD, regardless of driver or what tires you have. Then again if a 4WD has bald street tires, don't expect to travel through soft pack or sand reliably either.

A .308 will technically take down a person better than a .223, but doesn't always mean it's better.
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  #62  
Old 02-21-2014, 8:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Droppin Deuces View Post
I've been on some pretty crappy terrain with my Prerunner and made it through fine, but not without some stress. If any of you have been on Calcite Mine Trail in Anza Borrego, I'd say that's approaching the limits of 2wd with some occasional locker use when LSD doesn't seem to want to figure it out. I'd drive on a trail like that for days if I knew of one long enough. It's all about wheel placement and pedal pressure.
The calcite mine trail is a race course for my Jeep, too easy to take slow. Try the diablo canyon run at the end of split mountain road, before the sandstone canyon split off. If you make it through you can try and climb out on those steep drop-offs.

I was following a newby in a brand new Jeep Wrangler Rubycon, with front/rear lockers, etc. He couldn't make a turn so he "turned the rock" with his front wheel. It was a big one and he managed to bend his steering linkage sideways so the front end would only turn right.

So, yes, the driver has the most control, or not.
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  #63  
Old 02-21-2014, 10:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimi Jah View Post
The calcite mine trail is a race course for my Jeep, too easy to take slow. Try the diablo canyon run at the end of split mountain road, before the sandstone canyon split off. If you make it through you can try and climb out on those steep drop-offs.

I was following a newby in a brand new Jeep Wrangler Rubycon, with front/rear lockers, etc. He couldn't make a turn so he "turned the rock" with his front wheel. It was a big one and he managed to bend his steering linkage sideways so the front end would only turn right.

So, yes, the driver has the most control, or not.
Haha. Not going near anything I need help getting out of. I need my truck for camping and Home Depot runs more than I need it for 2wd rock crawling
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  #64  
Old 02-21-2014, 10:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NytWolf View Post
The one with the better driver.
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  #65  
Old 02-21-2014, 10:42 PM
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This thread is silly. If you want to go and come home 4WD. Period.
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  #66  
Old 02-22-2014, 9:03 AM
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This thread reminds me of a funny story I was telling my buddies last week.

Years back in Havasu, there was this hill that almost no one could climb in their 2WD trucks. Everyone was talking about how experienced they were but still couldn't make it up. I think 1 or 2 people did in their lifted K5's and Broncos using 2WD only. Then up comes a 4x4 Tacoma that was slightly modded with 2 girls in it driving around. They put it in 4 and cruise up the hill no problem. Thing is, all they were doing was looking for a place to camp and had no idea the guys down below were busy having a peter measuring contest with their 2WD trucks. All the guys left afterwards. Driver skills accounts for much, but not all.
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Old 02-22-2014, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drunktank View Post
This thread reminds me of a funny story I was telling my buddies last week.

Years back in Havasu, there was this hill that almost no one could climb in their 2WD trucks. Everyone was talking about how experienced they were but still couldn't make it up. I think 1 or 2 people did in their lifted K5's and Broncos using 2WD only. Then up comes a 4x4 Tacoma that was slightly modded with 2 girls in it driving around. They put it in 4 and cruise up the hill no problem. Thing is, all they were doing was looking for a place to camp and had no idea the guys down below were busy having a peter measuring contest with their 2WD trucks. All the guys left afterwards. Driver skills accounts for much, but not all.
Rofl................but but but im a better driver and can take my 2wd to places 4wds gets stuck............

I cant believe the guys that only owns 2wds and claims to be better than another with a 4wd just because of their 'experience'. If they were so experienced in offroading rockcrawling, they'd ditch the 2wd long ago. Who'd be dumb enough to ride into the back country in a 2wd just riding on hopes and skills. Like going on a sierra trek in flip flops, t shirt and shorts carrying only a fanny pack and a few granola bars.
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Old 02-23-2014, 8:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimi Jah View Post
2x4 will get you there.

4x4 will get you back.
This.

Lockers help too. I added an automatic/lunchbox/cheapo one to my vehicle years ago, but slightly bent one of my axle tubes and had to go back to an open diff. Now that I camp with my young son, I don't go anywhere too crazy, but one of these days, I'd like to pick up another axle and lock it.

(Anyone have an 8.8 for sale cheap?)
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Old 02-23-2014, 9:42 PM
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What you are supposed to do with a 4x4 is this: Drive in 2x2 until you get stuck and then back the f==k out in 4x4 and go on another route in 2x2 until you get stuck again. 4x4 was meant to get you unstuck not stuck deeper.
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Old 02-23-2014, 9:46 PM
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Old 02-23-2014, 10:12 PM
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That truck is in much deeper water then I'd ever wanna be in ..
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Old 02-24-2014, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by therealnickb View Post
Bingo.

That written, nothing beats a locked jeep.


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Old 02-24-2014, 7:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by therealnickb View Post
Bingo.

That written, nothing beats a locked jeep.
Judging by the lame action pix (in driveway?) posted by heep owners, it seems a locked Early Bronco beats it easily. That's mine at the start of Doran Canyon in Calico, CA and I don't care how aggressive you drive a 2WD rig it AIN'T going up that waterfall.

If you look closely you can see the people that took the pictures are in each others picture.


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Old 02-24-2014, 7:18 PM
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I have said 4x4 Tacoma, I would rather have a 4x4 with bald tires then a 2wd

with aggressive tires. My rear end is light, so light they will spin in wet grass

don't ask how I know this. Of course the Tacoma is a daily driver, if I want to

go 4 wheeling thats the the older CJ is for.

Cool pics problem child, I noticed your BFG KO's I have those tires on both the

Tacoma and Jeep, love em.
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Old 02-24-2014, 7:26 PM
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Default 2wd vs. 4wd

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve_In_29 View Post
Judging by the lame action pix (in driveway?) posted by heep owners, it seems a locked Early Bronco beats it easily. That's mine at the start of Doran Canyon in Calico, CA and I don't care how aggressive you drive a 2WD rig it AIN'T going up that waterfall.

If you look closely you can see the people that took the pictures are in each others picture.



We wheeled with a bunch of broncos out in Moab. They did OK. Lots of stalling on the steep stuff though. And I don't remember using my lockers at all while running with that bunch so......

PS. The only time a jeep gets a hoof that high is when the driver f'd up. Articulation you don't have.
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Last edited by therealnickb; 02-24-2014 at 7:48 PM..
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  #76  
Old 02-24-2014, 9:08 PM
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marsdreamer marsdreamer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve_In_29 View Post
Judging by the lame action pix (in driveway?) posted by heep owners, it seems a locked Early Bronco beats it easily. That's mine at the start of Doran Canyon in Calico, CA and I don't care how aggressive you drive a 2WD rig it AIN'T going up that waterfall.

If you look closely you can see the people that took the pictures are in each others picture.


Driveway shot? My shared photo is no driveway shot! That was Slick
Rock, Ca. last summer.
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Old 02-24-2014, 9:12 PM
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I have only seen one 2wd on the Rubicon. It was a VW based dunebuggy, and he had amazingly made it almost a mile into the trail. We helped him get unstuck.
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Old 02-24-2014, 9:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve_In_29 View Post
Judging by the lame action pix (in driveway?) posted by heep owners, it seems a locked Early Bronco beats it easily. That's mine at the start of Doran Canyon in Calico, CA and I don't care how aggressive you drive a 2WD rig it AIN'T going up that waterfall.

If you look closely you can see the people that took the pictures are in each others picture.


*sigh* Another noob in a bronco who think they are cool. Is the Hammers trails good enough for you? Enjoy your rust bucket.
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  #79  
Old 02-24-2014, 9:55 PM
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Ahhh Shiiit .. we do have some wheelers in here huh?

Nice.. maybe we should set up a 4x4 expedition one of these days..

85 Toyota 4runner.. Locked in the rear with marlin crawler dual xfer cases on 35s with a 7mgte for the power plant..She's almost back on the road..
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Old 02-24-2014, 9:59 PM
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My truck = 4x4 with lockers. It goes everywhere.

I cannot go as many places in 2wd with the rear locked, the 4x4 helps.
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