Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > GENERAL DISCUSSION > General gun discussions
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

General gun discussions This is a place to lounge and discuss firearm related topics with other forum members.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-19-2014, 4:07 PM
1bulletBarney's Avatar
1bulletBarney 1bulletBarney is online now
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: West of Mayberry (209)
Posts: 1,078
iTrader: 8 / 100%
Default Next best option for LTC?

On a job a while back, was given a "safety trincket", a nice thin metal lock blade knife. Very easy to open one handed with a 3" blade, carries very comfortable in my back pocket.

Part of my daily routine is to take a nice long walk in the park. Today on my walk I came to a isolated area with a service road access to rather large lawn area surrounded by trees. Cant see the lawn area from the barracaded service road entrance.

As I get to the lawn area, a guy was playin fetch with his pit bull about 80 yrds from me. Pit bull sees me, drops stick and charges straight to me at a full sprint. I stop, get knife from my back pocket and wait...I'm at defcon 1, not knowing if this dog is gonna maul me or lick me to death.

Everything went ok. Pit bull came to me and retreated when his owner called him. This was a very scary situation that could have went really bad. I sure hope that my county goes shall issue some day. For now, knife is next best option.

Last edited by 1bulletBarney; 02-19-2014 at 7:30 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 02-19-2014, 4:17 PM
barrage barrage is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: San Diego
Posts: 3,359
iTrader: 7 / 100%
Default

Maybe the knife WAS the best option for you in that situation.

Was the dog aggressive when it got to you?
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02-19-2014, 4:23 PM
1bulletBarney's Avatar
1bulletBarney 1bulletBarney is online now
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: West of Mayberry (209)
Posts: 1,078
iTrader: 8 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by barrage View Post
Maybe the knife WAS the best option for you in that situation.

Was the dog aggressive when it got to you?
No, dog was ok, he sure looked mean tho... wish owners would obey leash laws...
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 02-19-2014, 4:46 PM
AK5.56's Avatar
AK5.56 AK5.56 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 222
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

I understand that Pit bulls can be big and intimidating looking and the dog definitely should have been on a leash ,but would you have shared this story if it was a golden retriever or lab that came running over to you? Just because YOU were scared, doesn't mean pit bulls are scary or mean. Think about the message your sending about the breed.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02-19-2014, 5:15 PM
1bulletBarney's Avatar
1bulletBarney 1bulletBarney is online now
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: West of Mayberry (209)
Posts: 1,078
iTrader: 8 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AK5.56 View Post
I understand that Pit bulls can be big and intimidating looking and the dog definitely should have been on a leash ,but would you have shared this story if it was a golden retriever or lab that came running over to you? Just because YOU were scared, doesn't mean pit bulls are scary or mean. Think about the message your sending about the breed.
Yes, I was VERY scared. Years ago I seen a german shepard maul a mail man, was a bloody mess. If YOU dont like that I call out a dog by breed, thats YOUR problem...
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02-19-2014, 6:04 PM
AK5.56's Avatar
AK5.56 AK5.56 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 222
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

You are right.

As a dog lover, It is my problem that people wrongfully stereotype this breed as something its not.

But as a member on a gun form I would think you would understand and be somewhat sympathetic because we deal with a similar situation:

Its the same mentality that people say AR15s are scary big black guns.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 02-19-2014, 6:14 PM
valdier valdier is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 337
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

The worst thing we do as a society is ignore science for "emotion".

Being a dog lover does nothing to change the science that pit bulls are by far the most dangerous breed of domestic dog.

http://www.dogsbite.org/pdf/31-year-...ack-trends.pdf

http://www.dogsbite.org/pdf/dog-atta...ifton-2013.pdf

It takes almost 0 skill with excel to see dog population to bite ratio. The only domestic dog breed that mauls, kills, and bites more people than the pitbull as a percentage of population, is the wolf-hybrid.

Pitbulls are an aggressive and unpredictable dog breed and the *only* known domestic dog breed to randomly turn on their owners unprovoked and kill or maul them, other than wolf-hybrids. Between 2006 and 2008, pit bulls were responsible for killing 6 senior citizens, their owners, on their own property. In fact... they were responsible for 59% of all dog related deaths involved pit bulls and 81% of off-property deaths were pit bulls that got out of their yard and killed random people that offered no threat.

I would be a lot more likely to shoot a charging pit bull over a golden retriever, they don't have a factual reputation for aggressively killing people.

That is science. Lets keep opinion out of facts.
__________________

Last edited by valdier; 02-19-2014 at 6:20 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 02-19-2014, 6:37 PM
AK5.56's Avatar
AK5.56 AK5.56 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 222
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Even worse for society is selective facts and not looking at the bigger picture

http://mabbr.org/pit-bull-ownership/...out-pit-bulls/

There is no "science" as you claimed to be quoting that shows the pit bull breed randomly turns against humans.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 02-19-2014, 6:48 PM
Doheny's Avatar
Doheny Doheny is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 11,507
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Blog Entries: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1bulletBarney View Post
....I'm at defcon 5, not knowing if this dog is gonna maul me or lick me to death....
FWIW, DEFCON 5 is the lowest level of readiness.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DEFCON

.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 02-19-2014, 6:48 PM
valdier valdier is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 337
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AK5.56 View Post
Even worse for society is selective facts and not looking at the bigger picture

http://mabbr.org/pit-bull-ownership/...out-pit-bulls/

There is no "science" as you claimed to be quoting that shows the pit bull breed randomly turns against humans.
You mean other than the clear statistics, the agreement by the CDC, the complete breakdown of the information and the raw factual data explaining who and what the bites were? Btw, the links I provided were data and bites tracked over a 30 year period.

Let me guess though... you didn't actually read any of it? I didn't post anything from an anti-pit bull site... I posted factual dog bite statistics from a pro-animal safety group.

You are posting from about the most possibly biased site without factual reference to data that you possibly could.

It is akin to using MSNBC as an unbiased opinion site for Obama.
__________________

Last edited by valdier; 02-19-2014 at 7:03 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 02-19-2014, 7:12 PM
SacTown's Avatar
SacTown SacTown is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: NorCal
Posts: 1,782
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Pepper spray may be a good option if you need some protection against a loose/vicious dog. Also a good solid walking stick is probably wise to have. Nothing says down boy like a swift whack across the head.
__________________
SI VIS PACEM, PARA BELLUM
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 02-19-2014, 7:31 PM
1bulletBarney's Avatar
1bulletBarney 1bulletBarney is online now
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: West of Mayberry (209)
Posts: 1,078
iTrader: 8 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doheny View Post
FWIW, DEFCON 5 is the lowest level of readiness.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DEFCON

.
I stand corrected...
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 02-19-2014, 8:11 PM
Doheny's Avatar
Doheny Doheny is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 11,507
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Blog Entries: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1bulletBarney View Post
I stand corrected...

I used to get it backwards too!


Sent from my iPhone; pardon any typos.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 02-19-2014, 8:12 PM
AK5.56's Avatar
AK5.56 AK5.56 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 222
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by valdier View Post
You mean other than the clear statistics, the agreement by the CDC, the complete breakdown of the information and the raw factual data explaining who and what the bites were? Btw, the links I provided were data and bites tracked over a 30 year period.

Let me guess though... you didn't actually read any of it? I didn't post anything from an anti-pit bull site... I posted factual dog bite statistics from a pro-animal safety group.

You are posting from about the most possibly biased site without factual reference to data that you possibly could.

It is akin to using MSNBC as an unbiased opinion site for Obama.
I did read it and it may appear you however didn't. Let me explain:

Dogbites.org is a amateur website owned and written by solely one woman, Collen Lynn, whose original intention was to ban certain breeds deemed too dangerous to own as she stated in her original "about us" section on her website.

Quote:
About the founder

Colleen Lynn resides in Austin, Texas and operates Lynn Media Group. On June 17th, 2007, she was attacked for approximately 5-seconds by a leashed pit bull while jogging in her former Seattle neighborhood. She was hospitalized for two days at Harborview Medical Center after undergoing surgery to repair a severe bone fracture. Four months later, she launched DogsBite.org. Learn more about Colleen in her four year anniversary blog post about her attack.
As it not being a anti pit-bull website this is their first mission statement

Quote:
We advocate
1.Pit bull ban
A breed ban is the most proactive policy that can be undertaken regarding the pit bull problem. A ban saves the most human lives by preventing attacks before they occur. By criminalizing pit bull breeding, a ban saves countless pit bulls from systematic euthanization and dramatically reduces the number of pit bulls used for dogfighting.
If you look at where they got their facts, half the resources are from anti pit bull sources

The facts I provided are backed strongly by the ACF (American Canine Foundation) which is one of the biggest foundations for canines in America

Here is their link which has a lot of great information and backs up what I was trying to say with the first resource I provided.

Quote:
There is no scientific process available to identify the American Pit Bull Terrier and over 30 breeds that look like the Pit Bull. We find
the media only reports what they call Pit Bull attacks labeling dogs that are not even related to the American Pit Bull Terrier. Of the
fatal dog attacks in the last 40 years very few dogs labeled as Pit Bulls were actually purebred American Pit Bull Terriers registered
with dog registries with pedigrees.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 02-20-2014, 8:53 AM
ChrisC's Avatar
ChrisC ChrisC is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: NorCal
Posts: 2,472
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

I've only been bitten by one dog in my life and it was a wiener dog, I hate those things almost as much as I hate chihuahuas. I have known a lot of pits and have never had an issue with any of them. And I grew up in gang areas down south where they loved to make pits mean by being stupid owners, and that is the problem 99% of the time. Stupid owners that get a pit and make them mean to make themselves look tough.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 02-20-2014, 9:11 AM
Epaphroditus's Avatar
Epaphroditus Epaphroditus is offline
Wikipidiot
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Where the McRib runs wild and free!
Posts: 2,004
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

Dogs are not scary unless you are not an alpha. Alphas know.

LTC versus knife is not even a discussion to have - apples and rutabagas. Who doesn't carry a knife?

I'm with SacTown on the pepper spray as well. LTC, knife, pepper spray - what you want is not LTC versus knife as an 'option' what you want are options which means LTC (when we can get it), knives, pepper spray and whatever else you can get without getting into trouble so you have options to choose from when you need them! It is a spectrum of force - not gun versus knife.
__________________
My opinions are not legal advice ... more like pleas for help.Acronyms AR-15 Primer CA firearms laws timeline BLM land maps
KnifeRights.org/images/KRbanner_468x60-1.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivanimal View Post
We have the time and the hammers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fiddletown
Study and learn our history and law as it is -- not as you would like it to be.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 02-20-2014, 10:10 AM
tonyxcom's Avatar
tonyxcom tonyxcom is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: NorCal
Posts: 4,211
iTrader: 38 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AK5.56 View Post
But as a member on a gun form I would think you would understand and be somewhat sympathetic because we deal with a similar situation:

Its the same mentality that people say AR15s are scary big black guns.
Oh, so if someone was running full speed towards me with an AR15 I shouldn't feel scared?
__________________
I have MGW Glock and M&P sight tools in Vallejo.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 02-20-2014, 12:23 PM
AK5.56's Avatar
AK5.56 AK5.56 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 222
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyxcom View Post
Oh, so if someone was running full speed towards me with an AR15 I shouldn't feel scared?
You took my words out of context. The point was:

The op probably wouldn't have shared his story if it was a chihuahua that came running at him. He mentioned it was a pit bull multiple times insinuating that this specific breed is something to be feared where as it was really just his personal fear.

My analogy was to make the comparison of how people use emotion and fear of the ar15 just because of It's color and military looks where really it's just a gun. The same goes for pit bulls and how people are quick to judge them based on their appearance and bad publicity when they are just another dog. Kind of like how people fear the ar15 because the news stories they hear about shootings.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 02-20-2014, 1:12 PM
ChrisC's Avatar
ChrisC ChrisC is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: NorCal
Posts: 2,472
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AK5.56 View Post
The op probably wouldn't have shared his story if it was a chihuahua that came running at him. He mentioned it was a pit bull multiple times insinuating that this specific breed is something to be feared where as it was really just his personal fear.
Maybe he has only been charged by a dog once and it happened to be a pitbull. Why do people try and make something out of nothing. Not everyone is against pitbulls, give it a rest.

The only insinuating I seen was on your behalf.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 02-20-2014, 1:15 PM
golfish's Avatar
golfish golfish is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Alta Loma
Posts: 3,624
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SacTown View Post
Pepper spray may be a good option if you need some protection against a loose/vicious dog. Also a good solid walking stick is probably wise to have. Nothing says down boy like a swift whack across the head.
I always like to carry an old 9 iron or sand wedge.
__________________
It takes a lot of balls to play golf the way I do

____________________________________

Happiness is a warm gun
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 02-20-2014, 1:52 PM
AK5.56's Avatar
AK5.56 AK5.56 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 222
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisC View Post
Maybe he has only been charged by a dog once and it happened to be a pitbull. Why do people try and make something out of nothing. Not everyone is against pitbulls, give it a rest.

The only insinuating I seen was on your behalf.
You mean like you just did. I never accused the op of being anti pit bull. Just said his story portrays a false negative stereotype.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 02-20-2014, 1:58 PM
valdier valdier is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 337
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AK5.56 View Post
I did read it and it may appear you however didn't. Let me explain:

Dogbites.org is a amateur website owned and written by solely one woman, Collen Lynn, whose original intention was to ban certain breeds deemed too dangerous to own as she stated in her original "about us" section on her website.
You again, clearly did not read the links I gave you. The website posted the data. The data on the page if you read it was clearly not from dogbites.org. One of them was a summary of information from the site, the second one was from the editor of Animal People conducted over 30 years, way before dogbites.org was ever around. Animal People, the site/organization that is dedicated to stopping cruelty to animals. Yeah, those guys are the ones that say pit-bulls are dangerous.

How about the CDC? Are they *ALSO* anti-pitbull?
http://www.cdc.gov/homeandrecreation...ogbreeds-a.pdf

They also conclude that per populace the dogs along with rott mixes are exceptionally dangerous as a percentage of dog population.

Is anyone that posts facts about the dangerous nature of pit bull breeds "anti-pitbull"? Or, is it possible, that you are just an apologist for the breed? I'm not saying they need to be banned, shot on sight or anything of the sort, but lets not try to pretend they aren't an aggressive breed of animal.

You do have a MUCH bigger reason to fear a pitbull breed charging you, than you do a golden lab though. Facts is facts.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 02-20-2014, 2:01 PM
valdier valdier is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 337
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AK5.56 View Post
You mean like you just did. I never accused the op of being anti pit bull. Just said his story portrays a false negative stereotype.
Except it isn't a false negative stereotype, it is a factual stereotype backed up by multiple, multi-decade studies by completely disparate groups across the country.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 02-20-2014, 4:39 PM
AK5.56's Avatar
AK5.56 AK5.56 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 222
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

You fail to understand my whole point.

I'm not denying pit bulls are probably one of the more dangerous breeds of dogs given their muscular build and large jaws. When I say dangerous I mean capable of doing more damage more easily than say a Chihuahua . (I would say a .50bmg is more dangerous than a 7.62 but I wouldn't want to be shot by either)

Im saying there is absolutely no scientific backing or process that shows the American Pit Bull Terrier has any more tendency to "turn" (not that any dog really turns on people unless they feel threatened or have some other reason) or is more "aggressive".

There are a couple reasons that there are "facts" claiming these notions you mentioned.
1. People don't really know what a pit bull is. So when there is a incident where someone is bitten by a dog that resembles a pit bull, when they go to seek medical attention or fill out a survey, they label that dog as a Pit Bull, because they don't know any better. In the long run it makes the "facts" look really bad for pits or in other other words become a "false negative stereotype".

2. When a pit feels threatened and there does happen to be a biting it usually results in much more damage causing the person to actually report it or seek medical attention with is the same as reporting. Think about if everyone reported how many times they were bitten by mini dogs like Dachshunds or Chihuahuas or Mini Dobys. There is a reason they call them ankle bitters and I would guess the numbers would be way higher for dog bites from small dogs if they were all recorded.

Not that this matters but I am around a lot of dogs and my personal experience has always proven more aggressiveness from small dogs than the pit bulls I have been around.

Im sure we are going to continue to disagree on the matter, and that's fine. I can actually appreciate that you responded with some kind of source and not just pure opinion. I try to be as open minded about everything.

Cheers

Last edited by AK5.56; 02-20-2014 at 4:42 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 02-20-2014, 7:11 PM
zhyla's Avatar
zhyla zhyla is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,209
iTrader: 5 / 100%
Default

A knife is a great tool but honestly kicking dogs is a better idea. Once they're close enough to stab they're chewing on your nads.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 02-20-2014, 9:06 PM
1bulletBarney's Avatar
1bulletBarney 1bulletBarney is online now
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: West of Mayberry (209)
Posts: 1,078
iTrader: 8 / 100%
Default

With the recent 9th CCA opinion "reverse and remand" in mind, I started this thread after I was charged by a dog (pit bull).

In my opinion a couple of posters craped all over this thread.

When this dog was charging, I took a defensive stand and was ready to defend myself with a weapon I lawfully was able to carry.

Funny thing was I did not feel the fear until after the situation was over.

Pepper spray, golf clubs, big sticks and boots are all viable options, I just happened to have a knife in my pocket. I hope that someday my county (state of CA) will become "shall issue" so that I can have another option to defend myself LTC.

Thanks to the posters that stayed with the thread and to the others...
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 02-21-2014, 12:59 AM
rondeezy rondeezy is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 78
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

seeing as how youre not actually asking about the next best ltc option, cool story bro.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 02-21-2014, 10:49 AM
the0thermrt the0thermrt is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 237
iTrader: 16 / 100%
Default

I've trained my three GSD mixes to run with me while I'm riding a bike. I'll take them for rides around the neighborhood but never without my mace gun and 12" bowie (open carry).
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 9:32 PM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2016, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.