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Survival and Preparations Long and short term survival and 'prepping'.

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  #41  
Old 02-21-2014, 6:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Sojournertruth View Post
bs story.....

the EPA doesn't take some "neighbors" word to determine what a Wetland is...or is not

Nobody said the EPA took the neighbor's word for it that the property is a wetlands, only that the neighbors initiated the whole process with a call to the EPA.

There is some dispute about whether the property is in fact a wetlands. To my knowledge it has not been ruled a wetlands by the Army Corps of Engineers, who I believe are the authority for these sorts of things. I've seen some pictures, and it doesn't look wet to me. It does seem as though the EPA acted in a very heavy handed way here, threatening to impose fines of $32k per day if the property was not restored immediately.

On the other hand, there are enough questions about the individuals involved that I think it is reasonable to ask whether the way they interacted with the EPA could have brought some of this down on them.

I don't think we can know everything that went on and who did what to who. In general though, I tend to give the benefit of the doubt to the individuals involved, not the EPA. The EPA has a history of being heavy handed in situations like this.
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  #42  
Old 02-21-2014, 4:07 PM
Sojournertruth Sojournertruth is offline
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Originally Posted by Cnynrat View Post
Nobody said the EPA took the neighbor's word for it that the property is a wetlands, only that the neighbors initiated the whole process with a call to the EPA.

There is some dispute about whether the property is in fact a wetlands. To my knowledge it has not been ruled a wetlands by the Army Corps of Engineers, who I believe are the authority for these sorts of things. I've seen some pictures, and it doesn't look wet to me. It does seem as though the EPA acted in a very heavy handed way here, threatening to impose fines of $32k per day if the property was not restored immediately.

On the other hand, there are enough questions about the individuals involved that I think it is reasonable to ask whether the way they interacted with the EPA could have brought some of this down on them.

I don't think we can know everything that went on and who did what to who. In general though, I tend to give the benefit of the doubt to the individuals involved, not the EPA. The EPA has a history of being heavy handed in situations like this.
and real estate developers have a history of destroying wetlands, anything for a buck
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  #43  
Old 02-21-2014, 6:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Sojournertruth View Post
and real estate developers have a history of destroying wetlands, anything for a buck
Ahhh yes, the evil corporations. Always the villain.

What we're talking about here is a couple trying to build their dream home threatened by the EPA with fines of $32k per day on the say so of a local EPA flunky, and they had to go all the way to SCOTUS to get an opinion that they could contest the ruling in court.

That is not the sort of tyranny I want to live under.
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Last edited by Cnynrat; 02-21-2014 at 7:00 PM..
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  #44  
Old 02-21-2014, 10:07 PM
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Default I have 64 acres for sale

I have 64 acres for sale with an artesian well
Road access to the lot and it is on lake oroville
In potters ravine ... Water, land, fish, game
Animals and rolling hills... PM me if interested ..
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  #45  
Old 02-22-2014, 6:43 AM
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Originally Posted by lasbrg View Post
Was the underage girl DHS?!

Sure looks that way. They must have really hated him.
They often have women in the department or sometimes guys pose as underage girls sometimes they even try to trick people by pretending to be legal at first then poping a supprise im 16 when they are realy a 30 to 40 year old balding fat guy lol
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  #46  
Old 02-22-2014, 7:58 AM
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Agenda 21 hard at work...........

http://ricochet.com/main-feed/The-Pe...nment-Thuggery

The Personal Cost of Big Government Thuggery
C.J. Box · May 27, 2012 at 10:47am
images-1

Most Ricochet readers are probably aware of the big-picture legal aspects of the EPA vs. Sackett case that was decided in favor or Mike and Chantell Sackett 9-0 in the Supreme Court in March

..........
So if you love freedom, sit back and prepare to become very angry. In 1998, after obtaining all the necessary permits to begin construction of a vacation home on a three-acre lot near Priest Lake they’d purchased for $28,000, the Sacketts prepared the ground for construction by hauling in several loads of fill-dirt. The lot was surrounded by previously built homes and it contained no stream (or stream bed), ponds, or marsh.
Several days after moving the first dirt, three people – a man and two women – flew 500 miles from the EPA office in Boise to Priest Lake to confront Mike Sackett. They arrived in a rental car and they ordered him to 1.) Remove the fill-dirt, 2.) Seed the ground with “wetlands” plants, 3.) Fence it for three-to-five years, then 4.) Apply for an “after-the-fact” permit from the EPA which they’d be unlikely to obtain. And until the Sacketts complied, they would be fined $75,000 per day.
The three federal bureaucrats produced no warrants, or documents, or badges. The only thing they left with Mike Sackett that day was a single business card from an EPA mid-level staffer named Carla Fromm. All of the charges and allegations were verbal. The bureaucrats got back in their rental and left.
Obviously, the Sacketts were stunned. Even a week’s worth of fines would wipe them out. Chantell finally reached Carla Fromm in Boise and asked how the EPA determined that their lot was a wetland. Fromm cited a U.S. Corps of Engineers on-line national wetlands inventory database. Chantell Sackett checked it out and their lot wasn’t on it. Triumphant, she called Fromm back with the news and was told that the EPA didn’t really consider the database authoritative.
The Sacketts hired their own engineer, who determined the lot was not a wetland. The EPA didn’t even respond to the report.
For seven long months, the Sacketts requested some kind of documentation, some kind of official EPA letter outlining the charges against them. They sent certified letters to the EPA office in Boise begging for clarification. There was no response. Meanwhile, the daily fines continued to mount. Finally, after 200-plus days since the verbal charges had been delivered, the EPA sent the Sacketts and official compliance order. By then, they purportedly owed over $15 million in fines.
At one point, the Sacketts offered the title to their lot to the EPA, saying, “We give up. Just take it and leave us alone.” The EPA refused to consider the offer.
The Sacketts contacted the Pacific Legal Foundation – thank God – and the legal battle began. But the problem wasn’t cut-and-dried, because the EPA’s own regulations won’t permit a citizen’s day in court until every procedure has taken place within the agency and hundreds of thousands in lawyer’s bills have been exhausted. And the Ninth Circuit agreed with the EPA.
For seven years, Mike and Chantell Sackett fought our government. It consumed their lives. Dozens of government lawyers and hundreds of bureaucrats – paid for by your taxes – aligned to ruin them. By the time the Sacketts arrived at the U.S. Supreme Court, our government said they owed $110 million in fines.
Even as the case wound its way upward through the system and it became more and more obvious that the EPA had no real case, not a single EPA bureaucrat tried to settle or apologize – not even privately. Even after the Court shot them down 9-0.
It would be wonderful to say it was a happy ending. But for the Sacketts, it’s not over. The decision simply gave them the right to go to court to prove the EPA was wrong in the first place. Mike Sackett told me that behind the scenes the EPA has quietly offered to settle. But until they do, the Sacketts still can’t build their home.
To my knowledge, no one in the EPA has been arrested, or fired, or reprimanded. Carla Fromm is still listed on the Idaho staff page of the EPA website, although it hasn’t been determined who exactly initiated the action against the Sacketts and no one has stepped up – or been named -- to take responsibility for it. Such is the black maw of bureaucracy.
We currently live in a country where mid-level federal bureaucrats -- armed with nothing more than a business card and shielded by civil service rules that deter accountability -- can arbitrarily choose to destroy the lives of innocent private citizens.
I stand in awe of Mike and Chantell Sackett -- ordinary Americans from Nordman, Idaho, who pulled together and fought back against the out-of-control power and preening might of our government itself. They give me hope.
Think about it, on this Memorial Day Weekend.

Last edited by problemchild; 02-22-2014 at 8:08 AM..
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  #47  
Old 02-22-2014, 8:32 AM
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Yes I would. In fact, I recently bought some with a year round creek.

Of course, it did come with a house built in the late 40s or early 50s So the house is probably 10 foot away from the creek

I was shopping for a home first... location was criteria number one and this one popped up and fit the bill with the added bonus of the creek

I am currently working on getting the house cleaned up and "prepper" ready... upgrading electrical and backup generator setup is high on list.

Because of the existing house, I do get a little bit of latitude But, as someone else said, I am mindful/respectful of what I do near the creek and not because of EPA rules
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  #48  
Old 02-26-2014, 2:30 PM
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Big bro is watching the h20...
There will be money in it!
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  #49  
Old 02-26-2014, 3:16 PM
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That's a pretty scary story problemchild; maybe it's better to avoid land with water after all.
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  #50  
Old 02-27-2014, 2:00 PM
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Just leave the water alone, and follow all the government guidelines.

If SHTF, *then* you can use the stream for your needs.

Most of the time people get in trouble with the authorities because they do not have water rights to the stream, or they build a pond or dam, or something else they are not permitted to do. But if you just leave it alone, on it's natural path, there should be no complaints by the EPA.
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  #51  
Old 02-27-2014, 2:09 PM
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Never stopped the Pot farmers why should it stop you.
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  #52  
Old 02-27-2014, 11:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by problemchild View Post
Agenda 21 hard at work...........

http://ricochet.com/main-feed/The-Pe...nment-Thuggery

The Personal Cost of Big Government Thuggery
C.J. Box · May 27, 2012 at 10:47am
images-1

Most Ricochet readers are probably aware of the big-picture legal aspects of the EPA vs. Sackett case that was decided in favor or Mike and Chantell Sackett 9-0 in the Supreme Court in March

..........
So if you love freedom, sit back and prepare to become very angry. In 1998, after obtaining all the necessary permits to begin construction of a vacation home on a three-acre lot near Priest Lake they’d purchased for $28,000, the Sacketts prepared the ground for construction by hauling in several loads of fill-dirt. The lot was surrounded by previously built homes and it contained no stream (or stream bed), ponds, or marsh.
Several days after moving the first dirt, three people – a man and two women – flew 500 miles from the EPA office in Boise to Priest Lake to confront Mike Sackett. They arrived in a rental car and they ordered him to 1.) Remove the fill-dirt, 2.) Seed the ground with “wetlands” plants, 3.) Fence it for three-to-five years, then 4.) Apply for an “after-the-fact” permit from the EPA which they’d be unlikely to obtain. And until the Sacketts complied, they would be fined $75,000 per day.
The three federal bureaucrats produced no warrants, or documents, or badges. The only thing they left with Mike Sackett that day was a single business card from an EPA mid-level staffer named Carla Fromm. All of the charges and allegations were verbal. The bureaucrats got back in their rental and left.
Obviously, the Sacketts were stunned. Even a week’s worth of fines would wipe them out. Chantell finally reached Carla Fromm in Boise and asked how the EPA determined that their lot was a wetland. Fromm cited a U.S. Corps of Engineers on-line national wetlands inventory database. Chantell Sackett checked it out and their lot wasn’t on it. Triumphant, she called Fromm back with the news and was told that the EPA didn’t really consider the database authoritative.
The Sacketts hired their own engineer, who determined the lot was not a wetland. The EPA didn’t even respond to the report.
For seven long months, the Sacketts requested some kind of documentation, some kind of official EPA letter outlining the charges against them. They sent certified letters to the EPA office in Boise begging for clarification. There was no response. Meanwhile, the daily fines continued to mount. Finally, after 200-plus days since the verbal charges had been delivered, the EPA sent the Sacketts and official compliance order. By then, they purportedly owed over $15 million in fines.
At one point, the Sacketts offered the title to their lot to the EPA, saying, “We give up. Just take it and leave us alone.” The EPA refused to consider the offer.
The Sacketts contacted the Pacific Legal Foundation – thank God – and the legal battle began. But the problem wasn’t cut-and-dried, because the EPA’s own regulations won’t permit a citizen’s day in court until every procedure has taken place within the agency and hundreds of thousands in lawyer’s bills have been exhausted. And the Ninth Circuit agreed with the EPA.
For seven years, Mike and Chantell Sackett fought our government. It consumed their lives. Dozens of government lawyers and hundreds of bureaucrats – paid for by your taxes – aligned to ruin them. By the time the Sacketts arrived at the U.S. Supreme Court, our government said they owed $110 million in fines.
Even as the case wound its way upward through the system and it became more and more obvious that the EPA had no real case, not a single EPA bureaucrat tried to settle or apologize – not even privately. Even after the Court shot them down 9-0.
It would be wonderful to say it was a happy ending. But for the Sacketts, it’s not over. The decision simply gave them the right to go to court to prove the EPA was wrong in the first place. Mike Sackett told me that behind the scenes the EPA has quietly offered to settle. But until they do, the Sacketts still can’t build their home.
To my knowledge, no one in the EPA has been arrested, or fired, or reprimanded. Carla Fromm is still listed on the Idaho staff page of the EPA website, although it hasn’t been determined who exactly initiated the action against the Sacketts and no one has stepped up – or been named -- to take responsibility for it. Such is the black maw of bureaucracy.
We currently live in a country where mid-level federal bureaucrats -- armed with nothing more than a business card and shielded by civil service rules that deter accountability -- can arbitrarily choose to destroy the lives of innocent private citizens.
I stand in awe of Mike and Chantell Sackett -- ordinary Americans from Nordman, Idaho, who pulled together and fought back against the out-of-control power and preening might of our government itself. They give me hope.
Think about it, on this Memorial Day Weekend.
sad but we have been reduced to surfdom the founding fathers would be very dissapointed. We need a strong front to repeal and enact new laws that give the rights back to the people not the glorius learder Kim Jun Oboma
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  #53  
Old 02-28-2014, 5:50 AM
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I know a couple friends that bought land with water on it, only to see it go dry when upstream control got out of hand. Do your homework and see where the water comes from and if it is used for something by Core of Army engineers or some other government body. There is always the possibility that it may be stopped upstream. Or there could be a dam downstream that slows the water. In their case, the downstream dam was opened so the big cities down river could get more water, leaving a mess upstream 10 months of the year.
Then you are left with a dry stream or a muddy hole where a lake used to be.
Do your research first.
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  #54  
Old 03-16-2014, 6:05 AM
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Don't know if this was posted yet, but a story just made the Drudge:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014...-own-property/

Quote:
All Andy Johnson wanted to do was build a stock pond on his sprawling eight-acre Wyoming farm. He and his wife Katie spent hours constructing it, filling it with crystal-clear water, and bringing in brook and brown trout, ducks and geese. It was a place where his horses could drink and graze, and a private playground for his three children.

But instead of enjoying the fruits of his labor, the Wyoming welder says he was harangued by the federal government, stuck in what he calls a petty power play by the Environmental Protection Agency. He claims the agency is now threatening him with civil and criminal penalties – including the threat of a $75,000-a-day fine.

“I have not paid them a dime nor will I,” a defiant Johnson told FoxNews.com. “I will go bankrupt if I have to fighting it. My wife and I built [the pond] together. We put our blood, sweat and tears into it. It was our dream.”
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