Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > INTERESTS AND ACTIVITIES > Ammo and Reloading
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Ammo and Reloading Factory Ammunition, Reloading, Components, Load Data and more.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-18-2014, 2:40 PM
stilly's Avatar
stilly stilly is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Currently in a shanty I made in the river bottom by Eastvale.
Posts: 9,618
iTrader: 44 / 100%
Default Is there ANY decent steel cased .223/.556 ammo for shooting out of an AR?

So I FINALLY got out to Steele PeekE and shot a few guns.

I tested out my AK pistol and it shot steel with NO issues. In fact, 140 rounds not one hiccup. SO it is fixed! YAY! Next I shot my AR varmint with a 24" DPMS upper on it. Shot 30 rounds of the reloads I made at BigBronco's house the other month. NO problems. All shot flawlessly. THANKS Bronco!

Then I loaded up a box of Wolf .223 and the first fired, but did not extract. Needless to say I dumped it out.

So now I need to either find an AR Upper that will eat the .223 wolf steel cased stuff I somehoe acquired a long time ago or I need to trade it for some 7.62x39 stuff somewhere. I would rather find a nice plinking upper that will eat all ammo.

So anyone know of a decent steel cased .223 brand/round that will function in most or all or many .223 semi auto rifles?

OR what a good upper to get to plink with it is nice to know too...
__________________
`Twas brillig, and the slithy toves...

Need GOOD SS pins to clean your brass? Try the new and improved model...


Author of the NY Times Best Selling book: How to Cheat and Win Like a Pro at Solitaire
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-19-2014, 11:56 PM
CEDaytonaRydr's Avatar
CEDaytonaRydr CEDaytonaRydr is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Montgomery, AL
Posts: 4,084
iTrader: 10 / 100%
Default

Any of it should work, unless your rifle is something like a Del Ton. Even then, it should work okay...

Clean your chamber, and polish your feed ramps a bit and see if it doesn't improve.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-20-2014, 12:00 AM
Pugster's Avatar
Pugster Pugster is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 882
iTrader: 66 / 100%
Default

Look into some Hornady TAP steel cased ammo. I haven't tried it but it seems to get good reviews from people who have used it.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-20-2014, 12:22 AM
uhlan1's Avatar
uhlan1 uhlan1 is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Corralitos/Watsonville
Posts: 5,963
iTrader: 17 / 100%
Default

I've shot craploads of Tula out of all of mine with no issues. I believe Wolf is just an importer of Tula. Not sure of accuracy though because I suck with long guns but it's always functioned..
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-20-2014, 12:57 AM
seal20's Avatar
seal20 seal20 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: (714)
Posts: 1,871
iTrader: 162 / 100%
Default

Yep, the Hornady training steel cased stuff is great. It used to go for $16/50 for the 75gr stuff which was a great deal. I think now it's like double that, so brass case stuff is just as cheap.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-20-2014, 3:00 PM
stilly's Avatar
stilly stilly is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Currently in a shanty I made in the river bottom by Eastvale.
Posts: 9,618
iTrader: 44 / 100%
Default

:\ I have not cleaned my rifle but I thought that maybe because it was a precision hunting upper that perhaps my chamber might have been a tad tighter and thus not liked that polymer coated steel. My friend's mini-14 did the same thing, after the first shot it did not extract and it took us all of about 10 minutes to unstick it and then after it happened a second time and took longer, we decided to put no more steel in it.I did not want that happening to me on the last trip so I made certain to keep the steel out after that first malfunction.
__________________
`Twas brillig, and the slithy toves...

Need GOOD SS pins to clean your brass? Try the new and improved model...


Author of the NY Times Best Selling book: How to Cheat and Win Like a Pro at Solitaire
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-21-2014, 11:33 AM
Dirk Tungsten's Avatar
Dirk Tungsten Dirk Tungsten is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: the basement
Posts: 724
iTrader: 27 / 100%
Default

Have you tried either the Silver Bear or MFS ammo with zinc plated cases? I've never had any issues with it going bang or extracting, unlike some of the polymer coated stuff.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-21-2014, 1:21 PM
Siberian23 Siberian23 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Napa, CA
Posts: 488
iTrader: 29 / 100%
Default

I shoot brown bear and Tula steel out of a psa upper without an issue.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01-21-2014, 3:26 PM
BruinGuy's Avatar
BruinGuy BruinGuy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: San Fernando Valley
Posts: 1,403
iTrader: 13 / 100%
Default

I'm surprised you're shooting steel ammo, Stilly. Aren't you making your own jacketed bullets, for heaven's sake?

Costs for .223 reloads:
Bullet = .10
Powder = .09
Primer = .04

Perfectly hand-loaded brass cased with quality Hornady bullets for .23/round.

Heck even crummy Wolf at $5.99/20 is .30/round!

Sell all that steel to some sucker in the marketplace and get to makin' some ammo.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01-21-2014, 4:30 PM
thenodnarb's Avatar
thenodnarb thenodnarb is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Inland Empire
Posts: 2,603
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

I don't think the .223 is suited for steal cased ammo without a coating like nickel. There isn't enough case taper to extract reliably. A freind of mine has an SU-16 and tried to tire a box of steel cased stuff. Like you, the first one jammed and had to be wacked out with the cleaning rod. he fired another one and it jammed in there so good he had take the gun home before he got it out.
7.62X39 was designed to be steel cased and so there is a good taper on the cartridge so it can extract easily.
Sell it, or trade it straight across for some 7.62x39 for your AK.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 01-31-2014, 2:49 PM
stilly's Avatar
stilly stilly is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Currently in a shanty I made in the river bottom by Eastvale.
Posts: 9,618
iTrader: 44 / 100%
Default

I JUST got started in .223 reloading. I am now trimming my brass. I plan to prolly shoot only reloaded brass or commercial varmint rounds.

I HATE to just dump off my ammo onto someone else SO last night I bought this:
http://palmettostatearmory.com/index...ng-handle.html

It is a 16" .556 nato double thick chrome lined carbine upper from PSA.

I got it because 1. It is chambered in .556 and 2. it is 16" and not a 24" bull barrel for shooting song dogs... I expect it to be MUCH lighter and I am looking forward to gettting it.

I am starting to make some .223 ammo hopefully by this weekend. Right now I am just concentrating on prepping the brass. But then once I get started, I will only have 2 lbs of W748 powder... I guess that is enough for about 500 rounds...

Anyways, yeah I need to get some more projectiles and what not too. I only have a few thousand of them.
__________________
`Twas brillig, and the slithy toves...

Need GOOD SS pins to clean your brass? Try the new and improved model...


Author of the NY Times Best Selling book: How to Cheat and Win Like a Pro at Solitaire
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 01-31-2014, 3:22 PM
CK_32's Avatar
CK_32 CK_32 is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Orange County
Posts: 14,297
iTrader: 37 / 100%
Default

Steel ammo in general is cheap because one it's steel and 2 the components are cheap and not precise.


That said there is "match" grade steel ammo. Not the best of ammo but listed as match and ok ammo for steel case. But technically all steel should run through your guns.
__________________
For Sale: 40 S&W Bullet Case Valve Stem Caps

What's Your Caliber??


My Youtube channel
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 01-31-2014, 4:07 PM
mark501w's Avatar
mark501w mark501w is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Rivercity
Posts: 1,680
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Reload swap the ammo for ak ammo.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 01-31-2014, 4:17 PM
sl0re10 sl0re10 is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 6,696
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by stilly View Post
I JUST got started in .223 reloading. I am now trimming my brass. I plan to prolly shoot only reloaded brass or commercial varmint rounds.

I HATE to just dump off my ammo onto someone else SO last night I bought this:
http://palmettostatearmory.com/index...ng-handle.html

It is a 16" .556 nato double thick chrome lined carbine upper from PSA.

I got it because 1. It is chambered in .556 and 2. it is 16" and not a 24" bull barrel for shooting song dogs... I expect it to be MUCH lighter and I am looking forward to gettting it.

I am starting to make some .223 ammo hopefully by this weekend. Right now I am just concentrating on prepping the brass. But then once I get started, I will only have 2 lbs of W748 powder... I guess that is enough for about 500 rounds...

Anyways, yeah I need to get some more projectiles and what not too. I only have a few thousand of them.
I was able to find powder out on the net today. PowderValley even had some that works well for 223 (but it was $30 a pound; high end... but they have cheap primers which helps). VIHTAVUORI N133
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 01-31-2014, 5:44 PM
stilly's Avatar
stilly stilly is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Currently in a shanty I made in the river bottom by Eastvale.
Posts: 9,618
iTrader: 44 / 100%
Default

I am a cheap bastige. I want to buy at least an 8lb bottle of powder and I want it for around $17 or less a lb. There is no way that I will ever use any $30/lb powder. I would load and then be afraid to shoot them, then try to sell them later on down the line to people that don't care would make me mad.

Yeah so I think maybe now I need to sell off my ria 1911 and GSG-5 to pay for it and the powder that I want...
__________________
`Twas brillig, and the slithy toves...

Need GOOD SS pins to clean your brass? Try the new and improved model...


Author of the NY Times Best Selling book: How to Cheat and Win Like a Pro at Solitaire
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 01-31-2014, 6:47 PM
bigedp51 bigedp51 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 263
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Who made your lower and what type buffer spring are you using? Does your gas system have any leaks? Is your extractor set up properly or missing its o-ring. The majority of AR15s are over gassed to make sure they function with lower pressure ammunition. This also means the bolt can be moving to the rear and chamber pressure is still holding the case firmly against the chamber walls. In a case like that you need a super strong extractor spring and a good o-ring to eject the case and not slip off the rim of the case.

I have the exact same PSA upper and a PSA lower and it fires the same ammo your using "without" any problems. I also have a DPMS A2 HBAR and it fires anything I put in it.

5.56 vs .223 What You Know May Be Wrong
http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/5-56-vs-223/


Brass vs. Steel Cased Ammo An Epic Torture Test
http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/bras...el-cased-ammo/


Last edited by bigedp51; 01-31-2014 at 6:50 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 01-31-2014, 7:09 PM
Chevy57fan Chevy57fan is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: N/A
Posts: 548
iTrader: 43 / 100%
Default

I don't have an AR, but had the exact same problem with Wolf not extracting from my Mini-14 on every single round. Herters worked flawlessly but I don't know why since they appear to be the same.

Since then I only shoot brass case stuff.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 01-31-2014, 7:45 PM
mark501w's Avatar
mark501w mark501w is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Rivercity
Posts: 1,680
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Hmm, $30 for powder for quality hand loaded ammo or $30 for questionable commie ammo you can't even reuse the cases on.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 01-31-2014, 9:34 PM
stilly's Avatar
stilly stilly is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Currently in a shanty I made in the river bottom by Eastvale.
Posts: 9,618
iTrader: 44 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mark501w View Post
Hmm, $30 for powder for quality hand loaded ammo or $30 for questionable commie ammo you can't even reuse the cases on.

NO. Your numbers are incorrect. I already had the ammo. I don't care enough to go and try to work a trade out somewhere. I do not intend to buy more of it but if someone else wants to shoot it, they can shoot the steel as well instead of my reloads. now let's look at the math:

WHATEVER bottle I get will most likely give me about 250-290 rounds therefore I will need at least 4 bottles to get me to 1k rounds. THAT is 4 x 30 = 120 + hazmat and shipping. But since I intend to do about 4k rounds, I will need about 16 lbs of that, so 16 x 30 = $480 + hazmat and shipping.

I have seen Winchester 748 for 19.99 a bottle but it was out of stock, I want to get 2 8LB bottles since 8LB bottles will likely be around $180 or less. I THINK I might have seen them for around $158 or something like that once. ANYWAYS, there is almost a $200 difference here. THAT is $200 that I can spend elsewhere for reloading components. PLUS I have been wanting to pick up an AR upper for some time now because of this exact reason. I do not want to throw any steel down my hunting rifle. Also, I do not want a rifle that needs to be rested to plink with. It aint as much fun to me, I would rather get a light plinker.

Now, as for particulars, I am uncertain, I think I have a CMMG lower with a DPMS LPK installed. Everything should be fine with no leaks and everything functions FINE with brass ammo. But when we run Steel in it, issues pop up. JUST like in the Keltec SU-16 and the Mini-14 do not like steel very much either.

So, forced upgrade to a PSA upper that is made to eat junkfood and decent stuff. I want to shoot off some of my cheap steel ammo first and then start going through my reloads but still keep cheap mil surp on hand for others that wanna shoot it.
__________________
`Twas brillig, and the slithy toves...

Need GOOD SS pins to clean your brass? Try the new and improved model...


Author of the NY Times Best Selling book: How to Cheat and Win Like a Pro at Solitaire

Last edited by stilly; 01-31-2014 at 9:37 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 01-31-2014, 9:45 PM
jonzer77's Avatar
jonzer77 jonzer77 is offline
Hold my beer & watch this
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Watsonville
Posts: 8,510
iTrader: 54 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by stilly View Post
NO. Your numbers are incorrect. I already had the ammo. I don't care enough to go and try to work a trade out somewhere. I do not intend to buy more of it but if someone else wants to shoot it, they can shoot the steel as well instead of my reloads. now let's look at the math:

WHATEVER bottle I get will most likely give me about 250-290 rounds therefore I will need at least 4 bottles to get me to 1k rounds. THAT is 4 x 30 = 120 + hazmat and shipping. But since I intend to do about 4k rounds, I will need about 16 lbs of that, so 16 x 30 = $480 + hazmat and shipping.

I have seen Winchester 748 for 19.99 a bottle but it was out of stock, I want to get 2 8LB bottles since 8LB bottles will likely be around $180 or less. I THINK I might have seen them for around $158 or something like that once. ANYWAYS, there is almost a $200 difference here. THAT is $200 that I can spend elsewhere for reloading components. PLUS I have been wanting to pick up an AR upper for some time now because of this exact reason. I do not want to throw any steel down my hunting rifle. Also, I do not want a rifle that needs to be rested to plink with. It aint as much fun to me, I would rather get a light plinker.

Now, as for particulars, I am uncertain, I think I have a CMMG lower with a DPMS LPK installed. Everything should be fine with no leaks and everything functions FINE with brass ammo. But when we run Steel in it, issues pop up. JUST like in the Keltec SU-16 and the Mini-14 do not like steel very much either.

So, forced upgrade to a PSA upper that is made to eat junkfood and decent stuff. I want to shoot off some of my cheap steel ammo first and then start going through my reloads but still keep cheap mil surp on hand for others that wanna shoot it.
8lbs of vihtavuori N133 is $196 which comes out to $24.50/lb which isnt bad considering it is a really good powder.......and it's in stock which is a plus lol.

http://www.powdervalleyinc.com/
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 02-01-2014, 10:22 AM
BruinGuy's Avatar
BruinGuy BruinGuy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: San Fernando Valley
Posts: 1,403
iTrader: 13 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by stilly View Post
So, forced upgrade to a PSA upper that is made to eat junkfood and decent stuff. I want to shoot off some of my cheap steel ammo first and then start going through my reloads but still keep cheap mil surp on hand for others that wanna shoot it.
I see what you did there. You bought ammo you wouldn't shoot in your rifles to justify getting a new upper! Well played, sir!

Last edited by BruinGuy; 02-01-2014 at 10:28 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 02-01-2014, 7:32 PM
Jimi Jah's Avatar
Jimi Jah Jimi Jah is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: North San Diego County
Posts: 8,647
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

The Tula shoots well in all my guns. I do clean out the bore every 200 rounds to remove the coating that can come off. I got a bunch for 23 cents per round.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 02-02-2014, 9:23 AM
mark501w's Avatar
mark501w mark501w is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Rivercity
Posts: 1,680
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

The point is ,even over priced quality hand loaded ammo is better than questionable Commie ammo that your gun isn't designed to shoot.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 4:02 AM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2016, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.