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Concealed Carry Discussion General discussion regarding CCW/LTC in California

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  #41  
Old 12-28-2013, 1:15 AM
Trevolution Trevolution is offline
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I never intended to start a war or participate in childish name calling, I was merely throwing out a question asking for opinions. Where I live I don't have to worry about most of the horrible scenarios, so wearing body armor would probably not be beneficial for me to wear it every single day. I do know that we carry for the possible "live or die" scenario and I figured that it's highly likely my firearm will remain in it's holster but I still carry anyways. I would just like to come prepared to live, whatever that may mean. Thank you for the interest and again, I didn't come here to get flamed, so I would appreciate them to be left out.
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  #42  
Old 12-28-2013, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevolution View Post
I never intended to start a war or participate in childish name calling, I was merely throwing out a question asking for opinions. Where I live I don't have to worry about most of the horrible scenarios, so wearing body armor would probably not be beneficial for me to wear it every single day. I do know that we carry for the possible "live or die" scenario and I figured that it's highly likely my firearm will remain in it's holster but I still carry anyways. I would just like to come prepared to live, whatever that may mean. Thank you for the interest and again, I didn't come here to get flamed, so I would appreciate them to be left out.
Yeah but that's how some folks around these parts roll, Trevolution.
They skip right over the discussion part and commence to getting their argument on, oftentimes dispensing unneeded advice along the way.
Lots of people taking lots of stuff personal, and not very many know how to use the words "You're right" let alone something inherently alien like "I was wrong".
Getting into arguments with said types is not on my to do list. Let 'em believe what they want to believe.
Good thread, by the way.
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  #43  
Old 12-28-2013, 7:07 PM
Lugiahua Lugiahua is offline
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Also let me point out another consideration...
There are many places/states that you can't carry, but most places allow concealable body armor.

And for those who can't get a CCW, body armor might there best choice as a passive defense.
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  #44  
Old 12-28-2013, 7:32 PM
Ronin2 Ronin2 is offline
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Originally Posted by Lugiahua View Post
Maybe I am young and free from injuries, but a level III AR500 concealable steel armor is about same weight as my weighted vest for physical training. $200.
Young and not very smart. You get what you pay for and $200 for armor is a joke. Those AR500 plates, yeah they will stop the rounds but can you say "spalling" and "richochet"??? There is a reason the military and tactical police units who are always under budget contraints, use expensive ceramic composite plates and not AR500 steel plates. If you wouldnt carry a Sat. nite special to defend yourself, why would you go cheap on your armor?

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Originally Posted by Lugiahua View Post
I also carry a pocket trauma kit any time outside the house. I think it's more important than CCW or body armor.
Again... you will probably need it should you take a rifle strike to one of your plates. Fragmentation from the spalling may open up your neck, fly up into your chin/face or worse.
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  #45  
Old 12-28-2013, 9:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Ronin2 View Post
Again... you will probably need it should you take a rifle strike to one of your plates. Fragmentation from the spalling may open up your neck, fly up into your chin/face or worse.
Ah, that's an interesting argument....

With a steel armor, you "might" get spall in the face when shot by high velocity rifles, depends on the angle and distance of the weapon, also the coating and design on the armor.
but without that armor, you certainly had two holes on your chest and back, no?

Military uses ceramic plates also because it is lighter.
Ceramic plates are generally only 70% the weight compared to metal plates of same protection level.

Agree that steel armor has it's limit, but just brought it out as one of the options.
I also have traditional Kevlar soft armor, but they are generally warmer than plate carrier during the summer.

Last edited by Lugiahua; 12-28-2013 at 9:32 PM..
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  #46  
Old 12-28-2013, 9:37 PM
Ronin2 Ronin2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lugiahua View Post
Ah, that's an interesting argument....

With a steel armor, you "might" get spall in the face when shot by high velocity rifles, depends on the angle and distance of the weapon, also the coating and design on the armor.
but without that armor, you certainly had two holes on your chest and back, no?

Military uses ceramic plates also because it is lighter.
Ceramic plates are generally only 70% the weight compared to metal plates of same protection level.

Agree that steel armor has it's limit, but just brought it out as one of the options.
I also have traditional Kevlar soft armor, but they are generally warmer than plate carrier during the summer.
Ceramic plates absorb the round and its enegry into the material of the plate and stop its momentum. Steel plates simply deflect / ricochet the round. EXPECT spalling dude, that is all that can come from a rifle hit on a hardened steel plate; the round HAS to go somewhere since its not going into the plate, just bouncing off the plate in fragments. The military uses ceramic plates to that its troops can stay in the fight after taking a hit in a plate.

NO soft armor made will stop high powered rifle rounds. Period.

Most All the people trying to save $$ on rifle protection buying AR500 plates will end up as walking wounded at best. If you take a rifle hit to your plate, there is a HIGH probability you are going to take a second hit as well. All the while the idiots selling you guys all this armor plate are laughing all the way to the bank. How much do you think that plate actually costs to make?

Last edited by Ronin2; 12-28-2013 at 9:57 PM..
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  #47  
Old 12-28-2013, 10:26 PM
Lugiahua Lugiahua is offline
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Ok then, spall is bad, but what's the possibility of us actually facing opponents with rifles? Why should I upgrade to expensive ceramic or polyethylene if I am unlikely ever shot by a rifle?
It's like saying I should carry IV set and expensive Hextend around because there might be (despite a very low chance) people near me in hypovolemic shock?

If wearing a steel armor against a rifle is such a bad idea (which I agree to a degree), what do you say to most people, LEO and civilian alike, with only soft armor or no armor at all? It would get them killed too?

I have a steel armor because I believe the chance of being shot by rifle is very low through statistic,
while this armor also offers reasonable protection against blade, blunt weapons and fists, which are more likely to be encountered than rifles.

If I really have to worry about people shooting me with ARs or AKs, it's probably better just move.

Last edited by Lugiahua; 12-28-2013 at 10:39 PM..
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  #48  
Old 01-01-2014, 4:25 PM
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People should wear it inside their houses, in parts of Oakland and Fresno.
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  #49  
Old 01-04-2014, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevolution View Post
Thank you for your replies. I can see that it is nothing to brag about when it comes to being comfortable and I wouldn't want to wear something that would make me feel like I wanted nothing to do with it anyways. I guess until something is made that feels and breathes like a t-shirt, but can stop bullets, I'll leave it alone.
I think what you want is Mithril. Unfortunately that's not available in this age. ;-)
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  #50  
Old 01-04-2014, 12:43 PM
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If you do want cheap concealable armor, go to: bulletproofme.com, they sell police surplus fairly cheap. Police surplus starts at $150.00 - $160.00
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  #51  
Old 01-04-2014, 9:46 PM
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You can try out DKX. 18oz and stops common pistol rounds



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  #52  
Old 01-12-2014, 10:11 PM
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You can try out DKX. 18oz and stops common pistol rounds



I sell those, really nice hard armor!
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  #53  
Old 01-19-2014, 7:06 AM
Bakersfield_Grizzly Bakersfield_Grizzly is offline
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We went to a funeral of one of our church member's siblings. I was sure wishing I had body armor on when I saw the gang members that showed up. When they started yelling at each other that if someone did not shut up, someone else would get buried. My wife and I moved behind a granite monument in case the lead started flying. Turned out to be a beautiful ceremony but it did not start that way.
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  #54  
Old 01-19-2014, 10:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macthefinger View Post
To these five posters (actually four as one guy is quoted twice) I ask this question... do you carry everyday?
If you do, why? Because you believe that you never know when a situation may present itself, and you may have to use your weapon?
Okay, so why are you saying body armor is "not practical", "straight up retarded" or otherwise absolutely not needed unless you are LEO?
Do you think the other guys won't be shooting back?
Are you all capable of magically avoiding bullets?
Why would you think it's perfectly understandable to carry everyday, but scoff at the notion of body armor?
To my thinking, if you think you might need a gun, you're ignoring the facts if you also think you won't get shot at.
because wearing body armor wont stop a gunshot to the head. not to mention that most plate carriers cover only your vital areas, lungs and heart, leaving your belly exposed quite well.

wearing body armor everyday is NOT practical.

if it was practical people would walk around in armor in stead of carrying a gun.
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  #55  
Old 01-19-2014, 8:51 PM
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Another option for EDC (or only option, as I agree that wearing a vest full time is crazy) is an armored backpack. We make custom size panel for a lot of the 5.11 bags;

http://www.atozarmory.com/511/

If you carry a backpack all the time anyway, it's a nice option.

Before anyone asks, yes we are a paid vendor, but if this still breaks any rules sorry an we will delete the post.
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  #56  
Old 01-19-2014, 10:21 PM
Samtech79 Samtech79 is offline
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This is a interesting topic...
Here's my two cents.
I work in the power utilities field and frequently visit out of the way places to preform inspections and repairs, etc. I have had more than one close call with startled hunters and land owners. I typically work alone and more often than not I end up having to walk to location as I simply can't drive a truck to where I need to be. (Power lines, switches, transformers,fuses, etc)
I do not wear armor but I do carry a level 3A soft panel in my backpack.
I am not allowed to carry while on the clock but I always have my backpack. Tools and a laptop are a must and a one pound panel may be useless but I get a little piece of mind knowing that I have even just a little protection should the need arise.
Am I paranoid? No. I'm not fearful that I will be randomly attacked but I do understand that startled people sometimes do irrational things... Especially if their lights just went out and there's someone they don't know walking across their field or crouching over next to the humming box on the corner. I try to be pretty open about what I'm doing and noisy but some of these places you'd swear there wasn't a soul for miles and there's somebody looking right at you.
If you regularly spook people during the course of you business... Wear it if you want. It ain't gonna hurt your chances.

Last edited by Samtech79; 01-19-2014 at 10:25 PM.. Reason: Spelling
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  #57  
Old 01-19-2014, 11:03 PM
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Many parts of this thread are hilarious.
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  #58  
Old 01-19-2014, 11:38 PM
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Do people need it all the time? No. Do you want to wear it more than just the range and self defense at home? Go ahead. As said before, for most of us, full time armor is not only uncomfortable but would make spouses and coworkers reach for your tin foil hat to take it off.


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  #59  
Old 01-20-2014, 8:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lugiahua View Post
Ok then, spall is bad, but what's the possibility of us actually facing opponents with rifles? Why should I upgrade to expensive ceramic or polyethylene if I am unlikely ever shot by a rifle?
It's like saying I should carry IV set and expensive Hextend around because there might be (despite a very low chance) people near me in hypovolemic shock?

If wearing a steel armor against a rifle is such a bad idea (which I agree to a degree), what do you say to most people, LEO and civilian alike, with only soft armor or no armor at all? It would get them killed too?

I have a steel armor because I believe the chance of being shot by rifle is very low through statistic,
while this armor also offers reasonable protection against blade, blunt weapons and fists, which are more likely to be encountered than rifles.

If I really have to worry about people shooting me with ARs or AKs, it's probably better just move.

If it's a low chance, why bother with plates. Flawed logic. Enjoy the spall
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  #60  
Old 01-21-2014, 10:10 AM
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I'd go with a panel in a backpack or briefcase if you really think you need it.
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  #61  
Old 01-21-2014, 11:03 AM
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You can put an anti-spall pad over the steel plate (they are usually thin Kevlar-equal to about level one or two).
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