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Concealed Carry Discussion General discussion regarding CCW/LTC in California

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  #1  
Old 08-28-2013, 7:43 AM
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Default Friend with POT CARD, now has CCW.

What are the consequences?

This is in Butte County. He doesn't smoke himself, but likes the money from growing.

How long before they catch up to him?
  #2  
Old 08-28-2013, 7:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wicked Pete View Post
What are the consequences?

This is in Butte County. He doesn't smoke himself, but likes the money from growing.

How long before they catch up to him?
Drug dealing and guns usually don't go over very well.

To answer your question: Two Weeks.
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Old 08-28-2013, 8:35 AM
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It is not difficult to cross-reference a 215 card and a carry license applicant. Want to fault anyone? Start with the investigative division of the Butte County Sheriff's department in charge of carry licenses.
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Old 08-28-2013, 8:37 AM
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Sorry, but that is a total fail. Nothing undermines a LTC holder more than being a pothead / grower/ dealer / whatever.
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Old 08-28-2013, 8:39 AM
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I agree with Bobbie to an extent, there really aresome people with cronic pain that is only helped by cronic.
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Old 08-28-2013, 8:41 AM
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I have a few friends with both. I just myob.
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Old 08-28-2013, 9:10 AM
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Forget Butte county!

As a CA caregiver, he is not supposed to "make money" that whole thing is a scam. He is supposed to grown only for someone in his care within the county.

Basically what you said is that he is a drug dealer and carries a firearm in the commission of a federal crime.

BTW, does he realize that the Sheriff can now arrest him for carrying even though he has a cough cough "prescription"?
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Old 08-28-2013, 9:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wicked Pete View Post
What are the consequences?

This is in Butte County. He doesn't smoke himself, but likes the money from growing.

How long before they catch up to him?
I would find a new friend. Hanging with drug dealers will get you into trouble.
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Old 08-28-2013, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Simi-Surfer View Post
I would find a new friend. Hanging with drug dealers will get you into trouble.
This. ^^^^

Headline Butte County: Feds raid pot farm - seize 100 plants - owner shot and killed when he was seen with a concealed handgun.

I'd stay away from his place if I were you.
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Old 08-28-2013, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aldemar View Post
This. ^^^^

Headline Butte County: Feds raid pot farm - seize 100 plants - owner shot and killed when he was seen with a concealed handgun.

I'd stay away from his place if I were you.
Yup.

I think there permit is already voided in the terms of issuance and I too agree this gives LTCs a bad rep. To echo the sentiment, stay far away.
  #11  
Old 08-28-2013, 11:24 AM
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This not going to end well... CCW and possession with intent? It only takes one snitch, or another dealer putting in a tip to thin out the competition. If he lands in court, the DA will wipe the flood with him.
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Old 08-28-2013, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by HonkingAntelope View Post
This not going to end well... CCW and possession with intent? It only takes one snitch, or another dealer putting in a tip to thin out the competition. If he lands in court, the DA will wipe the flood with him.
Yup.

Time to find a new friend. If the OP doesn't get dragged into some mess over the pot and guns, it'll be over something else eventually.
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Old 08-28-2013, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taperxz View Post
Forget Butte county!

As a CA caregiver, he is not supposed to "make money" that whole thing is a scam. He is supposed to grown only for someone in his care within the county.

Basically what you said is that he is a drug dealer and carries a firearm in the commission of a federal crime.

BTW, does he realize that the Sheriff can now arrest him for carrying even though he has a cough cough "prescription"?
no one has a Rx for MJ its a DR recommendation for the use of MJ
and caregivers can buy or grow for dispensarys as a co op as long as they are non profit but non profit is kind of loose term IMO have you ever seen the owner/pres of a non profit org driving a pos car or living in a dump ?? I havent



anywho wouldnt it be a federal issue since MMJ is legal in CA ? so until the feds know is the state gonna really care ??
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  #14  
Old 08-28-2013, 11:30 AM
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Drop an anonamous dime on him.
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Old 08-28-2013, 11:32 AM
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I am of the libertarian view that as long as you are not hurting anyone or infringing on their rights, whatever you want to do with your life should be fine and dandy. There is a move towards de-criminalization of harmless recreational drugs that are no different than alcohol - just tax the sale and distribution and watch the federal deficit evaporate.

However, that's not the world we live in.

In this very real and present world, drugs and guns don't mix, m'kay?

The situation the OP has cited is not going to end happily.
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Old 08-28-2013, 11:33 AM
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"You there, smokin' mother nature... this is a BUST"
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  #17  
Old 08-28-2013, 11:48 AM
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When all the systems are merged together (health records, criminal records etc.) thats when the "COMPUTER" will do the cross referencing of everything that the "PROGRAMMER" that sets that algorithm into it. So your friend will end up on some kind of list where he will get a knock on the door. UNLESS they make it ALL legal federally speaking.

For now if no one KNOWS or no one rats on him, he is safe.
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Old 08-28-2013, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by vintagearms View Post
Drop an anonamous dime on him.
Well, there is nothing anonymous about you, SNITCH!
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  #19  
Old 08-28-2013, 1:05 PM
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Puff puff,pass...me some more mags,those permits sir,and a few more possibilities.I'm neither pro/con,do care or could care less about 50/50.So imo just be logical captain like Spock.See,everyone can relate to that,hippie or hillbilly.
  #20  
Old 08-28-2013, 1:18 PM
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can't believe his CCW got approved?!
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Old 08-28-2013, 1:22 PM
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I don't know much of anything about the pot card thing.
But I was under the impression that you could only grow for your own use if you had one ?
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Old 08-28-2013, 1:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SNCaliber View Post
can't believe his CCW got approved?!
maybe its tied in with the ADA

He could have a disability and needs weed for medicinal use
and a ccw for whatever reason he stated
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Old 08-28-2013, 2:36 PM
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There are some Sheriff's that do not care about a marijuana recommendation. They will tell you as long as you do not have both on you at the same time, they are ok with it.

Personally, I would rather deal with a stoner as so many like to put it, then deal with a drunk.
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Old 08-28-2013, 2:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chillincody View Post
no one has a Rx for MJ its a DR recommendation for the use of MJ
and caregivers can buy or grow for dispensarys as a co op as long as they are non profit but non profit is kind of loose term IMO have you ever seen the owner/pres of a non profit org driving a pos car or living in a dump ?? I havent



anywho wouldnt it be a federal issue since MMJ is legal in CA ? so until the feds know is the state gonna really care ??
Recommendation/prescription is basically the same thing. You can't possess or use without either one. The Sheriff can indeed arrest on the basis of a firearm being used in the commission of a crime.

Take a look at my location. Our economy is run by this stuff. I can walk outside and smell the weed all around me literally.
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Old 08-28-2013, 3:34 PM
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For those disgusted or amazed that someone might have a LTC and a 215 card, think about this.

If we lived in a 'shall issue' state, the Sheriff's discretion would never enter into the debate as to whether an applicant should or shouldnt be issued a license. The only thing that would disqualify the applicant would be whether or not they were a prohibited person-

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Under indictment or information in any court for a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year;
convicted of a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year;
who is a fugitive from justice;
who is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance;who has been adjudicated as a mental defective or has been committed to any mental institution;
who is an illegal alien;
who has been discharged from the military under dishonorable conditions;
who has renounced his or her United States citizenship;
who is subject to a court order restraining the person from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner or child of the intimate partner; or
who has been convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence (enacted by the Omnibus Consolidated Appropriations Act of 1997, Pub. L. No. 104-208, effective September 30, 1996). 18 USC 922(g) and (n).
Note that one would have to be an 'unlawful user' or addicted... Holding a 'pot' card wouldnt disqualify you, unless it could be proved that you were addicted.
So, if this sort of liberty is a problem for you, you kind of have to ask yourself just where you stand on the 2A. Some may find that it is perfectly okay to poke holes in it to satisfy their desire to disarm what they believe are 'undesireables'... which invariably leads to progressive incrementalism that denies people rights for no other reason than bigotry.
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Old 08-28-2013, 3:46 PM
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They gave him a license to a firearms enhancement when the feds bust him for breaking federal law! He should only get 3-10 extra years and an extra felony or three out of it.
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Old 08-28-2013, 3:58 PM
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Also consider that even as far as CA goes, the OP mention that the guy is selling the pot, not smoking it himself. A local DA would have a field day with a case like that.
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Old 08-28-2013, 4:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisC View Post
There are some Sheriff's that do not care about a marijuana recommendation. They will tell you as long as you do not have both on you at the same time, they are ok with it.

Personally, I would rather deal with a stoner as so many like to put it, then deal with a drunk.
I like your thinking. As I mentioned how they got both is none of my business. So much fail in this thread.
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Old 08-28-2013, 6:55 PM
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Stoners vs drunks, pain management vs recreational use, liberty/freedom, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. These are tangential issues to the OP. His main issue now is that it won't be much of a challenge--especially in a county like Butte--for the issuing agency to read this thread and direct some questions at the OP as well as the pothead/dealer guy. Whether anyone thinks that's good or fair or not isn't really germane to his most immediate concern.
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Old 08-28-2013, 7:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CitaDeL View Post
For those disgusted or amazed that someone might have a LTC and a 215 card, think about this.

If we lived in a 'shall issue' state, the Sheriff's discretion would never enter into the debate as to whether an applicant should or shouldnt be issued a license. The only thing that would disqualify the applicant would be whether or not they were a prohibited person-



Note that one would have to be an 'unlawful user' or addicted... Holding a 'pot' card wouldnt disqualify you, unless it could be proved that you were addicted.
So, if this sort of liberty is a problem for you, you kind of have to ask yourself just where you stand on the 2A. Some may find that it is perfectly okay to poke holes in it to satisfy their desire to disarm what they believe are 'undesireables'... which invariably leads to progressive incrementalism that denies people rights for no other reason than bigotry.
I think you need to understand the word "OR" federally this person is in fact an unlawful user, or in this case seller, or at very least in possession of an illegal (federally) controlled substance and carrying a firearm during the commission of the that crime.
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Old 08-28-2013, 7:12 PM
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Isn't the form you fill out to purchase a gun a FEDERAL form? If so, even if you have a pot card, you are still an unlawful user in the eyes of the feds.
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Old 08-28-2013, 7:33 PM
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What are the odds that the guys GC cause was

I am a "Not for Profit" pot farmer and I need it to protect my investment from the unscrupulous lawbreakers that use my product for reasons other than as prescribed/recommended.

Yeah, pretty slim odds...
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Old 08-28-2013, 7:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisC View Post
There are some Sheriff's that do not care about a marijuana recommendation. They will tell you as long as you do not have both on you at the same time, they are ok with it.
Oh, really?
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Old 08-28-2013, 7:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CitaDeL View Post
Note that one would have to be an 'unlawful user' or addicted... Holding a 'pot' card wouldnt disqualify you, unless it could be proved that you were addicted.
So, if this sort of liberty is a problem for you, you kind of have to ask yourself just where you stand on the 2A. Some may find that it is perfectly okay to poke holes in it to satisfy their desire to disarm what they believe are 'undesireables'... which invariably leads to progressive incrementalism that denies people rights for no other reason than bigotry.

The problem with your position is there are no lawful users in the eyes of the feds. Recommendation or not, the feds consider you an unlawful user if you smoke pot. Even if California actually legalized marijuana, it would make no difference to the feds. While the op states his friend does not smoke, there were one or two threads a few months ago noting that the ATF considers merely having a medical marijuana card as disqualifying an individual from owning firearms. I think that arose in the context of actual cards like those issued by the counties, but I doubt they see any difference between the official cards and a recommendation from a doctor. Personally I think this is bs, but a lot of government policies are bs these days.

On another note, I think the very existence of this thread dooms the op's buddy if the sheriff cares about this. It can't be that hard for the sheriff to figure out who the friend is because there simply can't be that many people who have been issued an LTC recently. Rather than dropping dime on your buddy as another poster suggested, it might be more appropriate to call him and warn him that you've already ratted him out.
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Old 08-28-2013, 7:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BluNorthern View Post
Oh, really?
LOL!! Our Sheriff is out to bust any pot grower (medical or not) who violates any part of the state or local ordinances they violate and do checks on MED MJ growers all the time. See gun and see what happens to your grow!!
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Old 08-28-2013, 7:50 PM
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The problem with your position is there are no lawful users in the eyes of the feds. Recommendation or not, the feds consider you an unlawful user if you smoke pot. Even if California actually legalized marijuana, it would make no difference to the feds. While the op states his friend does not smoke, there were one or two threads a few months ago noting that the ATF considers merely having a medical marijuana card as disqualifying an individual from owning firearms. I think that arose in the context of actual cards like those issued by the counties, but I doubt they see any difference between the official cards and a recommendation from a doctor. Personally I think this is bs, but a lot of government policies are bs these days.

On another note, I think the very existence of this thread dooms the op's buddy if the sheriff cares about this. It can't be that hard for the sheriff to figure out who the friend is because there simply can't be that many people who have been issued an LTC recently. Rather than dropping dime on your buddy as another poster suggested, it might be more appropriate to call him and warn him that you've already ratted him out.
LOL!! +1000 ^^^

Here is the kicker too!! ATF, DEA and DOJ hire local deputies, pay their salary to the county and actually have them work on behalf of the federal government. My CCW instructor who i have on speed dial, actually helicopters in on 1000+ grows to bust these guys with the full weight of the federal government when they do this. I will bet Butte County does the same thing with the feds as they get their deputy paid for by the Fed government on a full time basis.

Last edited by taperxz; 08-28-2013 at 7:56 PM..
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Old 08-28-2013, 8:04 PM
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He'll probably get a rude awakening when the Feds find out!
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Old 08-28-2013, 8:07 PM
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Ah, like they say, location, location, location. Never did drugs, yet I'm not likely to get an LTC. I'm in L.A. County, you see
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Old 08-28-2013, 9:01 PM
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  • BATF regards possession of an MMJ card and acquiring a firearm as a no-no. (probably owning/
    possessing one too, but at least for acquiring there have to be misstatements on the 4473 for
    users and the ATF can run with that....)
    .
  • If a person somewhow wanted an MMJ card and yet did not want to use and wants to buy a gun
    he might remotely have some defense from Fed drama if he tested weekly at a certified drug
    lab proving he was not using.


    This probably is the only way to even have a chance of decoupling "possession of MMJ card" from
    "uses drugs". Addiction likely not required - unlawful user good enough, and then matters devolve
    down into frequency, how-long-ago, etc.
    .
  • There are other issues with The Dude even if he does not use the drugs himself and regardless of
    CA's Prop 215.

    He is ARMED IN COMMISSION OF A FEDERAL CRIME. Certainly that's a separate Fed law aside from
    the actual growing/possession transgressions.

    I believe there is likely is a similar law in California, where it does not matter whether the crime is a
    Fed or CA one. So even though California has its Prop 215 semilegality, there likely is a *state* violation
    of being armed while committing that *Federal* crime.

    Nobody has really thought about these interrelationships and complexities. Certainly not the potheads.
    .
  • Make a choice between getting an MMJ card or owning firearms.

    Scream liberty etc all you want but until the Fed situation is even remotely addressed there is risk of
    lifetime loss of gunrights and felony convcition - esp driven by "guns and drugs" intermix PR.
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Bill Wiese
San Jose, CA

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Last edited by bwiese; 08-28-2013 at 9:06 PM..
  #40  
Old 08-29-2013, 3:03 PM
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RobG RobG is offline
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Epic; weed dealer in Butte has CCW, meanwhile the law abiding citizens of Yolo (my county) county.....
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