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Concealed Carry Discussion General discussion regarding CCW/LTC in California

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  #1  
Old 08-19-2013, 3:41 AM
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Default Residence question

I split time between 2 homes in different counties. One is the home I own, and the other is the home of my girlfriend. I actually spend more time at the girlfriends house than I do in my own.

At what piont, (percentage wise) is it permissible to change your address for CCW application purposes? Her home county is Mendicino, and I spend approximately 60% of my time there, and 40% in Colusa county. I want to apply for a CCW, but know with 100% certainty that I will be denied in Colusa county because the applications are refused by the Sheriff if you live within a city limit. Mendicino is virtually shall issue from what I understand.

Thanks
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  #2  
Old 08-19-2013, 3:48 AM
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Which address is all your mail going to. Your Drivers License, Utility bills. Min of 2 years of solid residency qualifies you. And which county is easier to obtain what you need. Apply accordingly..
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Old 08-19-2013, 3:51 AM
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This is a bit of an over simplification, but your LEGAL address is the one where your driver's license, voter registration, etc are, and what's listed on your tax returns.

There's no hard and fast rule (that I am aware of) related to percentage of time spent wherever, but it's more a factor of where you, in all those matters legally, hang your hat.
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Old 08-19-2013, 4:31 AM
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I have lived in L.A. for 40 years. Met my wife and moved to Fresno, changed everything accordingly. And established beyond any reasonable doubt that I lived in that county at the same address for a min of 2 years. Now I can apply and get approved.. After a little country living? I decided to come back to L.A. and guess what I brought with me.. You go it my Derby that I hung in Fresno for 2 years..
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  #5  
Old 08-19-2013, 8:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davbog44 View Post
This is a bit of an over simplification, but your LEGAL address is the one where your driver's license, voter registration, etc are, and what's listed on your tax returns.
There's no hard and fast rule (that I am aware of) related to percentage of time spent wherever, but it's more a factor of where you, in all those matters legally, hang your hat.
I wasn't aware that there was a legal definition of what constitutes residency as it applies to carry licenses. Have a citation?

The statute actually indicates 'substantial' amount of time, but the interpretation of that term is solely at the discretion of the issuing agency.
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Old 08-19-2013, 4:44 PM
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Where does the 2 year minimum come from?
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  #7  
Old 08-19-2013, 7:12 PM
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^ his hat
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Old 08-19-2013, 8:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fjold View Post
Where does the 2 year minimum come from?
Quote:
Originally Posted by David2531 View Post
^ his hat
Actually, the other end.

There is no statutory minimum duration. You could have moved into your residence yesterday and apply provided you were not lying on your license application.
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Old 08-19-2013, 8:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CitaDeL View Post
Actually, the other end.

There is no statutory minimum duration. You could have moved into your residence yesterday and apply provided you were not lying on your license application.
You can't lie! You sign under penalty and perjury.
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  #10  
Old 08-19-2013, 8:53 PM
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There is nothing mythical about the requirements an issuing authority may impose. California is not a "shall issue" state, so the authority to issue a CCW is pretty much left to the local law enforcement organization. With regard to residency, most entities defer to the motor vehicle code, quoted here:

"516. "Resident" means any person who manifests intent to live or
be located in this state on more than a temporary or transient
basis. Presence in the state for six months or more in any 12-month
period gives rise to a reputable presumption of residency.
The following are evidence of residency for purposes of vehicle
registration:
(a) Address where registered to vote.
(b) Location of employment or place of business.
(c) Payment of resident tuition at a public institution of higher
education.
(d) Attendance of dependents at a primary or secondary school.
(e) Filing a homeowner's property tax exemption.
(f) Renting or leasing a home for use as a residence.
(g) Declaration of residency to obtain a license or any other
privilege or benefit not ordinarily extended to a nonresident.
(h) Possession of a California driver's license.
(i) Other acts, occurrences, or events that indicate presence in
the state is more than temporary or transient."

The California Firearm, Knife, and Weapon Law Compendium states that there is a prerequisite for a resident time frame but shows no reference to a code; if there is, I have not found it. When I submitted my app, I had to include a copy of a utility bill envelope with the post mark and date clearly indicated. You can't use your girl friends address anyway and they will discover this during their investigation and deny your app. At that point, any chance you might have will be gone; lying on the application.
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  #11  
Old 08-19-2013, 9:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fjold View Post
Where does the 2 year minimum come from?
Personal Experience.
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  #12  
Old 08-19-2013, 9:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clever View Post
Personal Experience.
OH, so they screwed with you? Its a made up rule BTW
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Old 08-20-2013, 3:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CitaDeL View Post
I wasn't aware that there was a legal definition of what constitutes residency as it applies to carry licenses. Have a citation?

The statute actually indicates 'substantial' amount of time, but the interpretation of that term is solely at the discretion of the issuing agency.

Not my point. Try showing up and applying for a permit in County that is a different County from what you have on your driver's license, etc and see if they approve you. I clearly said I don't think there's any law that defines by specific percentages of time spent at various locations. But if you get your DL, register your car, register to vote, and file your taxes all in one County, and try applying for a permit in another County, I doubt you'll be successful.
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Old 08-20-2013, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davbog44 View Post
Not my point. Try showing up and applying for a permit in County that is a different County from what you have on your driver's license, etc and see if they approve you. I clearly said I don't think there's any law that defines by specific percentages of time spent at various locations. But if you get your DL, register your car, register to vote, and file your taxes all in one County, and try applying for a permit in another County, I doubt you'll be successful.
First and foremost, If you have documentation that specifically says you don't live in the county you are apply at then what do you think would happen?

When people move they generally, get a license address change, reg to vote in the county they reside in and where you file your taxes has nothing to do with anything. Taxes are filed federally and state wide. I have never heard of any LE agency asking for your tax return when applying for a CCW.
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Old 08-20-2013, 3:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fjold View Post
Where does the 2 year minimum come from?
I have never heard of a 2 year minimim or a legal defination of residency. I know for a fact that a lot of people that lived full time in the bay area and had summer cabins in Counties like Madera County were able to get permits from Madera County.

All it takes for most central valley counties is a physical address and a utility bill showing that the person lives at this address.
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  #16  
Old 08-20-2013, 4:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barnstormer View Post
There is nothing mythical about the requirements an issuing authority may impose. California is not a "shall issue" state, so the authority to issue a CCW is pretty much left to the local law enforcement organization. With regard to residency, most entities defer to the motor vehicle code, quoted here:

"516. "Resident" means any person who manifests intent to live or
be located in this state on more than a temporary or transient
basis. Presence in the state for six months or more in any 12-month
period gives rise to a reputable presumption of residency.
The following are evidence of residency for purposes of vehicle
registration:
(a) Address where registered to vote.
(b) Location of employment or place of business.
(c) Payment of resident tuition at a public institution of higher
education.
(d) Attendance of dependents at a primary or secondary school.
(e) Filing a homeowner's property tax exemption.
(f) Renting or leasing a home for use as a residence.
(g) Declaration of residency to obtain a license or any other
privilege or benefit not ordinarily extended to a nonresident.
(h) Possession of a California driver's license.
(i) Other acts, occurrences, or events that indicate presence in
the state is more than temporary or transient."

The California Firearm, Knife, and Weapon Law Compendium states that there is a prerequisite for a resident time frame but shows no reference to a code; if there is, I have not found it. When I submitted my app, I had to include a copy of a utility bill envelope with the post mark and date clearly indicated. You can't use your girl friends address anyway and they will discover this during their investigation and deny your app. At that point, any chance you might have will be gone; lying on the application.
Nothing 'mythical' about discretionary issuance I get. The issuing agency is limited by statute on what requirements that they may impose upon applicants. (26175)

Have you read the code you quoted?

Quote:
"Resident" means any person who manifests intent to live or
be located in this state on more than a temporary or transient
basis.
What we have here is a citation of the California Vehicle Code. Even if we could link this with a 26150 licence, the imposition of a 2 year minimum residency duration requirement fails upon review.

CVC says two things; a person who manifests intent to live in the state OR a person actually present for six or more months out of any twelve month period.

Wrap your mind around this legal conundrum for a moment.

According to the CVC, a resident can manifest intent by simply declaring it on a carry license application. You could apply for a carry license (which does not spell out what evidence proves residency and requires none) to provide intent of residency to meet the vehicle code requirement (which specifies what evidence corroborates residency.) to obtain a California vehicle registration card.

Notice that the CVC says possession of a Califronia driver's license is also evidence of residency. If your valid DL has your current address on it, why is it necessary to drag out utility bills, car registration, rental agreements, et cetera?

Issuing agencies requiring proof of residency and a minimum duration are imposing flatly unlawful mandates.
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Sometimes the law defends plunder and participates in it. Sometimes the law places the whole apparatus of judges, police, prisons and gendarmes at the service of the plunderers, and treats the victim -- when he defends himself -- as a criminal. Bastiat

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Last edited by CitaDeL; 08-20-2013 at 4:11 PM..
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  #17  
Old 08-22-2013, 7:18 AM
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Wow. All I wanted to know is if I should go through the steps of changing my drivers licence and voter registration to the place I live at the most. I already have utility bills in my name that go to that address, but I haven't changed the others.

I was also wondering how long those things need to be changed before I can apply as a resident of the county I actually live in.

It sounds to me like the loudest of you guys is saying that I have to keep my residence in whichever county is least likely to give me a CCW, or I am violating some law.

Guess I will just wing it.
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Old 08-22-2013, 8:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bert Gamble View Post
Wow. All I wanted to know is if I should go through the steps of changing my drivers licence and voter registration to the place I live at the most. I already have utility bills in my name that go to that address, but I haven't changed the others.

I was also wondering how long those things need to be changed before I can apply as a resident of the county I actually live in.

It sounds to me like the loudest of you guys is saying that I have to keep my residence in whichever county is least likely to give me a CCW, or I am violating some law.

Guess I will just wing it.
No need to wing it. Some of the previous posters went into more detail than was necessary for practical purposes. The suggested course of action is rather straightforward: Get all your 'official' documentation (i.e. driver's license, vehicle registration, bank statements, utility bills, etc.) associated with the address which is located in the CCW-favorable county - then apply 1-2 months later just to make sure all the databases have time to reflect the update.

I wouldn't recommend trying to game the system and pass off a vacation home // girlfriend's place in a CCW-friendly county as your 'primary residence' when applying, unless you truly reside there the majority of the time out of the year. Many issuing authorities conduct neighborhood checks and ask your neighbor(s) questions about you and how often they see you around.

Last edited by Foxmaster05; 08-22-2013 at 8:19 AM.. Reason: grammar
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Old 08-22-2013, 9:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bert Gamble View Post
I split time between 2 homes in different counties. One is the home I own, and the other is the home of my girlfriend. I actually spend more time at the girlfriends house than I do in my own.

At what piont, (percentage wise) is it permissible to change your address for CCW application purposes? Her home county is Mendicino, and I spend approximately 60% of my time there, and 40% in Colusa county. I want to apply for a CCW, but know with 100% certainty that I will be denied in Colusa county because the applications are refused by the Sheriff if you live within a city limit. Mendicino is virtually shall issue from what I understand.

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  #20  
Old 08-23-2013, 5:15 AM
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The California Supreme Court has ruled residency is by "declaration".

Thereby, I declare myself to be a resident of...______________ County.

A drivers license or voter registration satisfies the declaration by any measure.

For example, a person may live in Los Angeles most of the time but declare residency in another county...perfectly legal.

Change your CDL to a Mendocino address, register to vote there, get a PO Box as well and you are golden.
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