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  #1  
Old 07-09-2013, 12:41 PM
knightstalker83 knightstalker83 is offline
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Default Peace Officers carry while archery hunting

Don't know where this topic belongs, I wanted to know if there's any game wardens in this forum that can help me out on this question.
I found some info online that Peace Officers can carry while engaging in bow hunting.
Any Game Wardens or Other LEO with info will be appreciated.
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  #2  
Old 07-09-2013, 1:51 PM
knightstalker83 knightstalker83 is offline
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It used to be they can't thats why i'm asking, i guess your not a bow hunting.
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  #3  
Old 07-09-2013, 4:13 PM
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If you want the black and white / letter of the law answer:
If you are archery hunting during an archery only season in California it is unlawful to carry a firearm. LEOs are exempt.

Last edited by Bucks n Ducks; 07-13-2013 at 7:34 PM.. Reason: I stand corrected, LEOs ARE exempt
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  #4  
Old 07-09-2013, 4:16 PM
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Curious as to why they'd expect a novice bow hunter to take aim and release an arrow towards a bear or mountain lion running right at them.

Wasn't the point of carrying for self defense for all things?

I mean if you illegal shot game then wouldn't that be up to the game warden to determine?
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  #5  
Old 07-09-2013, 4:31 PM
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I'm not LEO or a game warden or anything but I believe it changed when SB 1367 passed last year. If I remember right the original bill would have also exempted people with a LTC but it was amended.
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  #6  
Old 07-09-2013, 4:44 PM
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Yes, per Fish and Game code 4370 via leginfo.ca.gov:

4370. (a) In every area in which deer may lawfully be taken during
the general open season there is an archery season for the taking of
deer with bow and arrow. The season for each area shall be as the
commission may prescribe, with a minimum interposing interval of
three days immediately preceding the regular open season on deer in
that area. Except as provided in subdivision (b), a person taking or
attempting to take deer during such archery season shall neither
carry, nor have under his or her immediate control, any firearm of
any kind.
(b) A peace officer listed in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section
830) of Title 3 of Part 2 of the Penal Code, whether active or
honorably retired, may carry a firearm capable of being concealed on
his or her person while engaged in the taking of deer with bow and
arrow in accordance with subdivision (a), but shall not take or
attempt to take deer with the firearm.

4371. The provisions of this code relating to deer shall be
applicable to the taking of deer with bow and arrow.
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  #7  
Old 07-09-2013, 4:49 PM
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LEO ARE exempt as of this year...
CCW permit holders are NOT

spacebarred right over CBR, yeah, what he said
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  #8  
Old 07-09-2013, 4:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tripper View Post
CCW permit holders are NOT
Which is a bunch of hogwash, to put it politely.
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  #9  
Old 07-09-2013, 5:12 PM
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Good looking out guys!
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  #10  
Old 07-09-2013, 5:22 PM
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I am a huge supporter of law enforcement officers, but this stinks to high heaven... no special rules for special people!
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  #11  
Old 07-09-2013, 5:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noggles View Post
I am a huge supporter of law enforcement officers, but this stinks to high heaven... no special rules for special people!
Are you saying that LEOs shouldn't be able to carry while bow hunting?
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  #12  
Old 07-09-2013, 6:24 PM
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They passed a law last year that allows LEOs to carry while bowhunting. Before that it was whether you thought the Penal Code of Fish and Game Code held more weight in court.
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  #13  
Old 07-09-2013, 8:01 PM
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BS
As if bowhunters for bear go along with that ridiculous law anyways
Z
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  #14  
Old 07-13-2013, 7:27 PM
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It seems reasonable to allow any hunter to carry a side arm for protection against predators when bow hunting.
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  #15  
Old 07-14-2013, 3:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuelx View Post
Are you saying that LEOs shouldn't be able to carry while bow hunting?
It just seems odd. If LE can carry while bow hunting, why can't anyone else?

Or, why are LE exempt from the law preventing carry while bow hunting? Is there some codified reason?
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  #16  
Old 07-14-2013, 4:44 PM
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Lets say your LEO, out hunting with your bow. You walk pass a guy shooting targets with his gun, some how we reconize you as a LEO(its a small world and this does happen)because you might of arrested him before. He notice you only have a bow...so you get the point.
Its great that LEO can carry now during archery season.
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  #17  
Old 07-14-2013, 4:45 PM
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I thought I was in the LEO section, but instead ended up in "off topic".
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  #18  
Old 07-14-2013, 6:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knightstalker83 View Post
Lets say your (you're) LEO, out hunting with your bow. You walk pass (past) a guy shooting targets with his gun, some how we reconize (he recognizes) you as a LEO(its a small world and this does happen)because you might of (have) arrested him before. He notice (notices) you only have a bow...so you get the point.
Its great that LEO can carry now during archery season.
So if I understand your attempt at coherent communication, LE should be allowed to carry anywhere and everywhere due to fact they might be recognized by those wishing to do them harm. This is actually a good argument, all things considered.

What about Joe Citizen, stalking a deer while armed with a bow, who comes across a bear feeding on somebody else's gut pile. Doesn't he deserve the same right of self defense?
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..."and with that I'd like to turn it over to my colleague Loni Hancock, Senate Public Safety Chair, and as I like to say, my partner in crime."

Senate Public Safety Chair Loni Hancock:
"Yeah, we do that quite a lot, actually..."

- Joint Legislative Informational Hearing on Firearms - Newsom Initiative #1756 - May 3rd 2016
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  #19  
Old 07-14-2013, 6:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutch3 View Post
It just seems odd. If LE can carry while bow hunting, why can't anyone else?

Or, why are LE exempt from the law preventing carry while bow hunting? Is there some codified reason?
My question to the other guy was because he claims he is supportive of LE BUT he seems to be crying/whining sour grapes about LEOs being allowed to carry while bow hunting and not everyone else (seems like he is saying that since "regular" folks aren't allowed, then neither should LEOs - instead of since LEOs are allowed to carry, why not everyone else too? - which is how You put it, which I don't have a problem with).

As far as your second question, I have no idea specifically except for my belief that LEOs should be allowed to carry pretty much everywhere.

FWIW, I have no real dog in the fight - I don't hunt, bow or otherwise.

Last edited by Samuelx; 07-14-2013 at 6:54 PM..
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  #20  
Old 07-14-2013, 7:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuelx View Post
My question to the other guy was because he claims he is supportive of LE BUT he seems to be crying/whining sour grapes about LEOs being allowed to carry while bow hunting and not everyone else (seems like he is saying that since "regular" folks aren't allowed, then neither should LEOs - instead of since LEOs are allowed to carry, why not everyone else too? - which is how You put it, which I don't have a problem with).

As far as your second question, I have no idea specifically except for my belief that LEOs should be allowed to carry pretty much everywhere.

FWIW, I have no dog in the fight - I don't hunt, bow or otherwise.
To clarify, I am also not a regular hunter. My focus in this thread is the specific exemption of LE carrying while bow hunting. If LE need to carry wherever/whenever, why not pass a bill stating so?

I am of the belief that anyone engaged in hunting should be carrying a firearm for defense regardless of the hunt/venue they have tags for.
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Assembly Public Safety Chair Reginald Jones-Sawyer:
..."and with that I'd like to turn it over to my colleague Loni Hancock, Senate Public Safety Chair, and as I like to say, my partner in crime."

Senate Public Safety Chair Loni Hancock:
"Yeah, we do that quite a lot, actually..."

- Joint Legislative Informational Hearing on Firearms - Newsom Initiative #1756 - May 3rd 2016
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  #21  
Old 07-14-2013, 7:13 PM
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You got me...
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  #22  
Old 07-14-2013, 7:32 PM
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If you want to carry Dutch, sign up and join the force. We put our life on the line for people like you to be safe. Who do you call when you need help?
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  #23  
Old 07-14-2013, 8:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knightstalker83 View Post
We put our life on the line for people like you to be safe. Who do you call when you need help?
AAA.


Law enforcement has a tough job, and holds my respect, but don't try to insinuate that there's an individual right to protection available through law enforcement.

Police have no legal duty to respond and prevent crime or protect the victim. There have BEEN OVER 10 various supreme and state court cases the individual has never won. Notably, the Supreme Court STATED about the responsibility of police for the security of your family and loved ones is, "You, and only you, are responsible for your security and the security of your family and loved ones." That was the essence of a U.S. Supreme Court decision in the early 1980's when they ruled that the "police do not have a duty to protect you as an individual, but to protect society as a whole."

"It is well-settled fact of American law that the police have no legal duty to protect any individual citizen from crime, even if the citizen has received death threats and the police have negligently failed to provide protection."

Sources:

7/15/05 SUPREME COURT OF THE UNITED STATES No. 04-278 TOWN OF CASTLE ROCK, COLORADO, PETITIONER v. JESSICA GONZALES, INDIVIDUALLY AND AS NEXT BEST FRIEND OF HER DECEASED MINOR CHILDREN, REBECCA GONZALES, KATHERYN GONZALES, AND LESLIE GONZALES
In the case of Castle Rock v. Gonzales, the Supreme Court found that Jessica Gonzales did not have a constitutional right to individual police protection even in the presence of a restraining order. Mrs. Gonzales' husband with a track record of violence, stabbing Mrs. Gonzales to death, Mrs. Gonzales' family could not get the Supreme Court to change their unanimous decision for one's individual protection.

(1) Richard W. Stevens. 1999. Dial 911 and Die. Hartford, Wisconsin: Mazel Freedom Press.
(2) Barillari v. City of Milwaukee, 533 N.W.2d 759 (Wis. 1995).
(3) Bowers v. DeVito, 686 F.2d 616 (7th Cir. 1982).
(4) DeShaney v. Winnebago County Department of Social Services, 489 U.S. 189 (1989).
(5) Ford v. Town of Grafton, 693 N.E.2d 1047 (Mass. App. 1998).
(6) Warren v. District of Columbia, 444 A.2d 1 (D.C. 1981).
"...a government and its agencies are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any particular individual citizen..." -Warren v. District of Columbia, 444 A.2d 1 (D.C. App. 1981)
(7) "What makes the City's position particularly difficult to understand is that, in conformity to the dictates of the law, Linda did not carry any weapon for self-defense. Thus by a rather bitter irony she was required to rely for protection on the City of NY which now denies all responsibility to her."
Riss v. New York, 22 N.Y.2d 579,293 N.Y.S.2d 897, 240 N.E.2d 806 (1958).
(8) "Law enforcement agencies and personnel have no duty to protect individuals from the criminal acts of others; instead their duty is to preserve the peace and arrest law breakers for the protection of the general public."
Lynch v. N.C. Dept. of Justice, 376 S.E. 2nd 247 (N.C. App. 1989)
New York Times, Washington DC

Justices Rule Police Do Not Have a Constitutional Duty to Protect Someone By LINDA GREENHOUSE Published: June 28, 2005
The ruling applies even for a woman who had obtained a court-issued protective order against a violent husband making an arrest mandatory for a violation.


Source: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1976377/posts
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_...ct_of_Columbia
http://gunowners.org/sk0503.htm

I dial "1911", then "911".

Cheers.

JR

Last edited by Dvrjon; 07-14-2013 at 8:21 PM..
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  #24  
Old 07-14-2013, 8:16 PM
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Much butthurt I sense in this thread.

The law is what it is. LE doesn't make the laws, we just live by them.

Most of us here believe that that average joe should be able to carry.
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  #25  
Old 07-14-2013, 8:25 PM
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Originally Posted by knightstalker83 View Post
If you want to carry Dutch, sign up and join the force. We put our life on the line for people like you to be safe. Who do you call when you need help?
I call my cop friend because PD won't show
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  #26  
Old 07-14-2013, 9:12 PM
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Wow...

good luck hunting this year and stay safe!
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Old 07-14-2013, 11:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutch3 View Post
What about Joe Citizen, stalking a deer while armed with a bow, who comes across a bear feeding on somebody else's gut pile. Doesn't he deserve the same right of self defense?
Become a cop and get the same privilege if you want to carry a gun so bad during archery season.

Life isn't fair. Deal with it.
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  #28  
Old 07-15-2013, 3:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knightstalker83 View Post
If you want to carry Dutch, sign up and join the force. We put our life on the line for people like you to be safe. Who do you call when you need help?
What does that have to do with carrying while hunting?

Actually, I have called 911 a few times. Response times have improved over what they were years ago. Response time is no longer measured in hours or days. Now it is usually 45 minutes or less. Much appreciated.
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Assembly Public Safety Chair Reginald Jones-Sawyer:
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"Yeah, we do that quite a lot, actually..."

- Joint Legislative Informational Hearing on Firearms - Newsom Initiative #1756 - May 3rd 2016
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  #29  
Old 07-19-2013, 10:03 PM
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I hunt WY, AZ, NM, sometime CO and Alaska. I hunt for Elk, Antelope, sometimes deer , sometimes moose, and sometime javalina. I hunt with rifle, pistol, and archery. As a general rule all state Game and Fish regulations forbid carrying firearms while archery hunting. When archery hunting I usually carry a handgun. I carry it as primarily a survival tool in case I get lost or hurt (broken leg, etc...) and second for protection. Some of the places I hunt are pretty remote and a handgun comes in handy for survival (3 shots universal signal for help). Not too worried about bears, wolves, or Mountain Lions. They tend to be more afraid of you and usually avoid you. Occasionally you see one. Unless the animal is rabid or starving your gonna be OK in the lower 48. The only real danger would be grizzlies but they tend to be concentrated in areas I don't hunt. I have been hunting for over 30 yrs and have never had any issue with Game and Fish wardens nor anumals attacking (in the lower 48). Alaska is completely different.

You ain't gonna see the CHP in uniform out in the field while archery hunting in the lower 48. No need to worry or get uptight about whether or not the LEOs can carry out in the field while archery hunting. Who cares if they can or can't.

My advice, hunt outside CA. Better hunting in other states, most other state communities welcome/want hunters, game wardens are actually friendly people and consider hunters as major wildlife conservators. Out of state Elk tags in AZ and WY are cheaper than a resident ELK tag in CA.

Use some common sense. If you do carry during archery season, don't wear the weapon. Carry it in you pack and dont talk about what your carrying in your pack with anyone. Just some common sense and you will be fine.

Just my 2 cents worth.
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  #30  
Old 07-19-2013, 10:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron-Solo View Post
Much butthurt I sense in this thread.

The law is what it is. LE doesn't make the laws, we just live by them.

Most of us here believe that that average joe should be able to carry.
You guys are the minority unfortunately.
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  #31  
Old 07-20-2013, 8:32 AM
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Originally Posted by TrailerparkTrash View Post
Become a cop and get the same privilege if you want to carry a gun so bad during archery season.

Life isn't fair. Deal with it.
Wow. Really? Our LEO status should not create this disparity.
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Old 07-20-2013, 8:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Dutch3 View Post
So if I understand your attempt at coherent communication, LE should be allowed to carry anywhere and everywhere due to fact they might be recognized by those wishing to do them harm. This is actually a good argument, all things considered.

What about Joe Citizen, stalking a deer while armed with a bow, who comes across a bear feeding on somebody else's gut pile. Doesn't he deserve the same right of self defense?
Yes!
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Old 07-20-2013, 8:52 AM
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Since we're already off-topic, I'll take the liberty to continue. Being a LEO should not create in me or any other LEO the feeling of superiority. Read my signature...we are just like any other citizen, only that we get paid to give full attention to enforcement duties 8 hours a day. I believe our job is very important. Our presence deters crime. Our response sometimes results in stopping a crime in progress. After the fact, thorough investigation and prosecution further deters other criminals. It is an important job. But it should not create a sense of entitlement or superiority. I won't lie, I felt a little of that when I first got the job. I grew up, though.
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