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Calguns LEOs LEOs; chat, kibitz and relax. Non-LEOs; have a questions for a cop? Ask it here, in a CIVIL manner.

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  #1  
Old 07-06-2013, 1:53 PM
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Bert Gamble Bert Gamble is offline
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Default Question involving use of deadly force

I would like to know what a police officer could/should do if they are knocked to the ground by an attacker, and the attacker was able to gain a superior position and continue hitting?

Is there a minimum amount of injury you must sustain before you are allowed to draw your weapon and fire? Is the amount of injury inflicted different for civilians?

Thank you
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Old 07-06-2013, 2:32 PM
CaptMike CaptMike is offline
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Here a great place for you to start your training in lethal use of force.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tennessee_v._Garner
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Old 07-06-2013, 6:22 PM
SquareLite SquareLite is offline
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That is a very open ended question. If you are in danger of losing your life, deadly force is authorized in that situation. I won't elaborate any more in this setting.
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Old 07-06-2013, 8:16 PM
Sacmedic Sacmedic is offline
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The standard is the same. Did the individual perceive that they were in danger of serious bodily injury or death? If so, then lethal force would be justified. This justification must be based on the totality of the circumstances.
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Old 07-06-2013, 8:24 PM
Samuelx Samuelx is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bert Gamble View Post
I would like to know what a police officer could

"Could" - all sorts of options

/should

No "should", just Could.

do if they are knocked to the ground by an attacker, and the attacker was able to gain a superior position and continue hitting?

As SacMedic pointed out, it's the totality of the circumstances. In addition, you need to be painfully detailed/descriptive/articulate about the underlined above. Superficially, describing an incident like that would not cut it. If it is reasonable for me to use deadly force to protect myself or others or to prevent escape, ANYTHING goes.

Is there a minimum amount of injury you must sustain before you are allowed to draw your weapon and fire?

No.

Is the amount of injury inflicted different for civilians?

Not really. Check penal codes 196, 197, 198, 243(f)(4) (remember "including, but not limited to")

Thank you
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Last edited by Samuelx; 07-06-2013 at 8:28 PM..
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Old 07-06-2013, 9:10 PM
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omgwtfbbq omgwtfbbq is offline
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In the academy they always put it as "sufficiency of fear" and "reasonable officer" principle.

Essentially meaning if a similarly trained officer in the same situation could articulate sufficiency of fear, the fear of death or GBH to ones self or another, then yes, it is likely that the officer would be justified in using lethal force.

It's important to note that many things go into articulating reasonable use of force, lethal or otherwise.
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Old 07-07-2013, 12:48 AM
SquareLite SquareLite is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omgwtfbbq View Post
In the academy they always put it as "sufficiency of fear" and "reasonable officer" principle.

Essentially meaning if a similarly trained officer in the same situation could articulate sufficiency of fear, the fear of death or GBH to ones self or another, then yes, it is likely that the officer would be justified in using lethal force.

It's important to note that many things go into articulating reasonable use of force, lethal or otherwise.
A reasonable officer with the same level of training is how use of force is judged after the fact, with no regard for 20/20 hindsight (Graham v Conner). In the moment, ones decision to use any type of force is 100% dependent on the totality of circumstances surrounding the threat or perceived threat.
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Old 07-07-2013, 2:04 AM
CBR_rider CBR_rider is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bert Gamble View Post
I would like to know what a police officer could/should do if they are knocked to the ground by an attacker, and the attacker was able to gain a superior position and continue hitting?
If I'm knocked to the ground by a suspect who is assaulting me, things are not going to end well for my attacker. Neither should things end well for someone who assaults you and takes you to the ground.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bert Gamble View Post
Is there a minimum amount of injury you must sustain before you are allowed to draw your weapon and fire? Is the amount of injury inflicted different for civilians?
As has already been stated, no and no. But its all going to come down to being in fear of GBI/death in your basic scenario and exactly how that plays out is going to be very situation specific.
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Old 07-08-2013, 9:31 AM
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Bert Gamble Bert Gamble is offline
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Thank you all very much for your insightful comments. I think that I have a better understanding now.

Bert
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