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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #1  
Old 06-28-2013, 6:17 PM
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Default Annoyance with 308 carrier

Bought a 308 bolt for a style build from a reputable vendor. The product description goes as follows. I got the bolt carrier group. I take a look and there are tool marks all over and the portion of the carrier rails feel like a very fine file. Drop is the upper receiver and it sounds like a file going in. I call the vendor and speak to CS. They say there is nothing wrong with it and they are all like that. Seriously what gives. Also none of the parts are marked MP. I also have LMT MWS and the rails of the carrier and not rough nor are the ones on any of my AR's..



"308 Nickel Boron Match Grade Bolt Carrier Assembly

Specifications:

Style: DPMS Pattern Bolt Carrier Assembly designed to work with DPMS style barrel extension and compatible upper receivers. Always check compatibility prior to use in any firearm.

Match Grade: Machined using the most precise equipment in the industry, our equipment is capable of achieving the most demanding of tolerances typically in excess of (+/- .0003). When combined with other match grade components and ammunition these bolts are capable of producing accurate impacts of less than 1⁄2” moa at 100 yards.

Bolt: SAE 9310 High-Grade Steel, Case-Hardened, MPI tested, Nickel Boron Coated

Carrier: Mil-Spec 8620 Steel, Heat Treated, Full Auto Rated, MPI tested, Nickel Boron Coated.

Gas Key: Original Colt Staked with Mil-Spec screws , Nickel Boron Coated

Cam Pin: Heat treated, Nickel Boron Coated?

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  #2  
Old 06-28-2013, 6:28 PM
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Been looking for a chrome 308 BCG for six months+. A couple of months ago the Ni Boron ones came out. See them on gunbroker and other places. No one will tell me who the manufacturer is. For all I know some guy is making them in his garage. I am holding out for a genuine DPMS or Fulton Armory one.
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Old 06-28-2013, 6:42 PM
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Check JPRifles.com. I bought their low mass BCG. Wasn't cheap, but it's high quality.
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  #4  
Old 06-28-2013, 10:58 PM
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My first choice was for Young MFG carrier and JP bolt combo. I wanted a full mass carrier. Since I can't get an SR-25 extension and bcg from Knights or LMT

Last edited by kalieracer; 06-29-2013 at 12:53 AM..
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  #5  
Old 06-29-2013, 12:44 AM
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Well umm, how does it shoot?
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  #6  
Old 06-29-2013, 12:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2zero9 View Post
Well umm, how does it shoot?
I am not using that carrier. Just test fitting it is has already started to eat away at the anodizing on the inside of the receiver. Not about to ruin a $2000 upper. This is not my first AR-10 build. I also have a LMT MWS and owned a Noveske N6.
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  #7  
Old 06-29-2013, 7:35 AM
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I'm glad I didn't buy into those bolt carriers. I'm still waiting on my back ordered JP to complete my first build. Hoping it works out with no problems.
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Old 06-29-2013, 4:47 PM
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I talked to Young - they told me at this time they are not going to make 308 carriers. Although, funny thing is some guy on gunbroker had one for sale. Maybe an early prototype?
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  #9  
Old 06-29-2013, 9:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freedom-lover View Post
I talked to Young - they told me at this time they are not going to make 308 carriers. Although, funny thing is some guy on gunbroker had one for sale. Maybe an early prototype?
It would be from the previous batches they made. I am going to keep a look out for one on ar15.com
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  #10  
Old 06-30-2013, 3:13 AM
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http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=sho...roduct_id=3740
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  #11  
Old 06-30-2013, 8:31 AM
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The funny thing about NiB is it shows off tool marks. We ran into this with our first batch of NiB BCGs and we also stock the .308 match NiB unit that you're posting about. Ours also have some toolmarks which we've basically come to expect with NiB BCGs. An additional step in the process prior to plating which isn't done with phosphated/parkerized BCGs but should be done with NiB is to polish the surface to be plated. It's purely an aesthetic issue, not a functional one provided that the bearing surfaces are smooth.
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  #12  
Old 06-30-2013, 10:20 AM
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Ty,

I totally get that about NIB stuff. The real issue is the rail surface is like a fine file and started remove finish from inside the upper from just a test fit. Not to mention is sounds like file being dragged across the upper when you hand cycle it. Drop in my MWS BCG and the sound goes away, that carrier has smooth bearing surfaces.

Leo


Quote:
Originally Posted by THT View Post
The funny thing about NiB is it shows off tool marks. We ran into this with our first batch of NiB BCGs and we also stock the .308 match NiB unit that you're posting about. Ours also have some toolmarks which we've basically come to expect with NiB BCGs. An additional step in the process prior to plating which isn't done with phosphated/parkerized BCGs but should be done with NiB is to polish the surface to be plated. It's purely an aesthetic issue, not a functional one provided that the bearing surfaces are smooth.

Last edited by kalieracer; 06-30-2013 at 10:23 AM..
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  #13  
Old 06-30-2013, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kalieracer View Post
Ty,

I totally get that about NIB stuff. The real issue is the rail surface is like a fine file and started remove finish from inside the upper from just a test fit. Not to mention is sounds like file being dragged across the upper when you hand cycle it. Drop in my MWS BCG and the sound goes away, that carrier has smooth bearing surfaces.

Leo
So the races of the BCG which make contact with the upper are rough and removing material from the interior of the upper? If that's the case, I'd see about getting a replacement. Now I need to go check inventory to see if any of the ones I have are like that. Any chance you can post close-up pics of the races of the carrier?
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  #14  
Old 06-30-2013, 10:57 AM
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Actually, nevermind about the pics. I know exactly what you're mentioning after looking/touching the BCGs we have.
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  #15  
Old 06-30-2013, 11:14 AM
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I can try, it is going to be very hard to see in a photo.
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  #16  
Old 06-30-2013, 11:16 AM
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Ok so I am not going crazy, looks like a machining qc issue
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  #17  
Old 06-30-2013, 11:20 AM
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I just finished a Mega Maten build.. installed one of the carriers from 762Industries (NiBor)... and yea, it's really loud when cycling and has the "file" sound you mentioned.

The BCG doesn't feel very rough, but it sure is noisy compared to my 5.56 stuff.. I lubed the hell out of it and the sound got better. I figured it would break in after shooting.

Now wondering if I should be concerned, certainly don't want to ruin an upper that's matched to my lower.
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  #18  
Old 06-30-2013, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve1968LS2 View Post
I just finished a Mega Maten build.. installed one of the carriers from 762Industries (NiBor)... and yea, it's really loud when cycling and has the "file" sound you mentioned.

The BCG doesn't feel very rough, but it sure is noisy compared to my 5.56 stuff.. I lubed the hell out of it and the sound got better. I figured it would break in after shooting.

Now wondering if I should be concerned, certainly don't want to ruin an upper that's matched to my lower.
Run a fingernail along the bearing surfaces of the BCG. Can you feel anything?
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  #19  
Old 06-30-2013, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by THT View Post
Run a fingernail along the bearing surfaces of the BCG. Can you feel anything?
Yep.. especially the ones at 4 and 8 o'clock.. when you run your fingernail over it's that zippy sound like a very very fine file..

Now I'm concerned about jacking up my upper.

The 2 and 10 o'clock bearing surfaces are the same, but slightly finer.

Problem?

What's funny is that the rest of the carrier doesn't have this issue.. smooth as can be. The rough area is confined to the spots that really need to be smooth.
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  #20  
Old 06-30-2013, 12:24 PM
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Yes it is, compare it to the carrier races of your ar-15. They should be the same smoothness . I would take the BCG out of your upper and inspect the anodized surface on the inside, you will likely see some starting of wear just from hand cycling it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve1968LS2 View Post
Yep.. especially the ones at 4 and 8 o'clock.. when you run your fingernail over it's that zippy sound like a very very fine file..

Now I'm concerned about jacking up my upper.

The 2 and 10 o'clock bearing surfaces are the same, but slightly finer.

Problem?

What's funny is that the rest of the carrier doesn't have this issue.. smooth as can be. The rough area is confined to the spots that really need to be smooth.

Last edited by kalieracer; 06-30-2013 at 12:28 PM..
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  #21  
Old 07-06-2013, 10:50 AM
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Default JP BCGs in stock

If it's of help to you gents, we have a few JP 308 BCGs in stock.
Link: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...2#post11753192

I've experienced the same thing with those NiB BCGs. Zip Zip is the biggest complaint people have. They wouldn't be bad for a low end/cost item if they would smooth out those surfaces before coating.
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Old 07-06-2013, 3:16 PM
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Thanks for the heads up, I just bought a JP bolt and youngs mfg 308 carrier from a friend.


Quote:
Originally Posted by VC Defense View Post
If it's of help to you gents, we have a few JP 308 BCGs in stock.
Link: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...2#post11753192

I've experienced the same thing with those NiB BCGs. Zip Zip is the biggest complaint people have. They wouldn't be bad for a low end/cost item if they would smooth out those surfaces before coating.
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  #23  
Old 07-07-2013, 9:13 PM
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kalieracer,

Thanks for sharing your experience. Was looking to purchase a similar BCG that uses the same description you posted, and guess i'll go a different route. I did some searching...Could you be experiencing the same issue as the thread below?

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=760573
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  #24  
Old 07-13-2013, 6:06 PM
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For those wondering what I am talking about

Rainer / Harris / 762 industries

[IMG][/IMG]

LMT 308 carrier rail - Armalite is smooth as silk too.

[IMG][/IMG]
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Old 07-19-2013, 10:51 PM
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Hopefully new batches get fixed.
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Old 07-20-2013, 10:24 AM
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If you cannot return your BC or have it replaced, cant you just file it with fine sandpaper? That rail slide sure looks terrible, looks like it will definitely eat away the area where it rub against.
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Old 07-20-2013, 11:15 AM
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Sure you could. But that defeats the purpose of getting it NiB coated it in the first place.
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Old 07-20-2013, 11:37 AM
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I bought one of these BCGs too and the coating is already coming off in a few spots with around 100 rounds through it. I wouldn't buy again, that Ranier one looks nice. I used to have a chrome DPMS one and I loved it, but I haven't seen those in stock for a long time.
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  #29  
Old 07-20-2013, 12:37 PM
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Oh man, that is terrible. Right on the skid where you need it to be smooth....
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Old 07-20-2013, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gemini1 View Post
If you cannot return your BC or have it replaced, cant you just file it with fine sandpaper? That rail slide sure looks terrible, looks like it will definitely eat away the area where it rub against.
Sandpaper vs. nickel boron. The coating would laugh at any grit sandpaper.
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  #31  
Old 07-20-2013, 4:34 PM
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I have a NIB bolt in my ar and it shows no tool marks
that's just poor quality
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  #32  
Old 07-20-2013, 4:35 PM
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The MFG addressed the issue with me directly, all of their units have some of those tool marks on the rails. I am not going to pay 325 for BGC and have it not finished correctly, I would rather have DPMS and then have it NIB'd and just run a JP bolt.

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If you cannot return your BC or have it replaced, cant you just file it with fine sandpaper? That rail slide sure looks terrible, looks like it will definitely eat away the area where it rub against.
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  #33  
Old 07-20-2013, 4:36 PM
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yes they do and if you look at my other photo of hard chrome 308 carrier from LMT the bearing surfaces are sooth.

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Originally Posted by killshot44 View Post


Oh man, that is terrible. Right on the skid where you need it to be smooth....
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  #34  
Old 07-20-2013, 6:10 PM
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Polish the front and rear leading edges of rails of bolt carrier and gas key and lube with red synthetic high temp wheel bearing grease.
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  #35  
Old 07-20-2013, 7:04 PM
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Once the NIB is one there you have to mill it off and them mill down the bearing surfaces. Honestly its easier to get a DPMS BCG strip the park off and coat then fix the machining.

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Polish the front and rear leading edges of rails of bolt carrier and gas key and lube with red synthetic high temp wheel bearing grease.
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