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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #1  
Old 06-27-2013, 9:05 PM
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Default Yes I know this has been asked before but how can I legally setup an AR pistol

I know you have to have a pistol lower but other than that what are the legal in's and out's to setup a legal AR pistol
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  #2  
Old 06-27-2013, 9:16 PM
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Really all depends on how the lower was acquired assuming you are asking about single shot exemption.

If you are asking about legal configuration just check the flow charts
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Old 06-27-2013, 11:16 PM
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Reading ~ Its fun & easy!!!
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Old 06-27-2013, 11:17 PM
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Need more details. Making one, buying one in state, or buying one out of state?
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Old 06-28-2013, 1:56 AM
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No buttstock or foward pistol grip allowed. Also need an off list lower. Would love to have a DD Mk18 pistol since no SBR's in CA.
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Old 06-28-2013, 2:31 AM
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^ to be technically complete...

Needs a maglock (bullet button)
No mags over 10 rounds
Not configured to readily accept a butt stock

Forward pistol grip can be used BUT only if
1) said firearm is taxed and registered with the FEDs as an AOW
2) you have an over all length of 26inches or greater

Either one of those options would technically on the FED level make the firearm not pistol anymore, but Ca would still classify as a pistol thus all other handgun Aw laws still apply
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Old 06-28-2013, 8:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffrice6 View Post
Reading ~ Its fun & easy!!!
Lazyness its funner and easyer and almost as dependable as receiving responses like this

to get back on topic I own a pre-ban Bushmaster AR I got before the first AW ban
its registered and since it is I never really had to follow any convoluted set of guidelines to set it up and use it
that being said I saw a couple of AR pistols at ASR this weekend and it got me interested in making a pistol so here I am
Yes I know I could use the most vaulted search feature Calguns has but if I start my own thread I can go to my profile to find it once it drops out of reach.
Now on to the questions
Lower
it looks like dedicated pistol lowers are hard to find but if I can find one it is something I can purchase and transfer thru an FFL correct?
if I get an 80% lower would that work legally to make a AR pistol?
barrel length
whats the minimum length barrel I can get in CA and or what is the most ideal size to ensure it functions correctly?
Im sure Ill have more questions but if these can be answered that would be great
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Old 06-28-2013, 9:25 AM
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If you are aware that the question has been previously asked and answered then the purpose of this thread is.........
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  #9  
Old 06-28-2013, 9:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usmcchet9296 View Post
Now on to the questions
Lower
it looks like dedicated pistol lowers are hard to find but if I can find one it is something I can purchase and transfer thru an FFL correct?
Unless your roster exempt; you won't be able to just buy a pistol lower from a FFL, however, you can purchase a complete AR pistol (like the FA XO-26 http://www.franklinarmory.com/PRODUCTS_XO-26.html).

Quote:
Originally Posted by usmcchet9296 View Post
if I get an 80% lower would that work legally to make a AR pistol?
Yes, this also happens to be the route most of us took in order to build our AR pistols.

Quote:
Originally Posted by usmcchet9296 View Post
barrel length
whats the minimum length barrel I can get in CA and or what is the most ideal size to ensure it functions correctly?
The shortest you usually see is 7.5" barrels, however these can be problematic due to the short gas system ( but they an be tinkered with-if needed). Most people end up with a 10.5" or 11.5" barrel using a carbine gas system, which usually run with less problems.

Also, it should be noted that unless you buy a complete AR pistol via PPT; SSE will be involved (if you build one from an 80% lower or you buy one from a FFL).
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Old 06-28-2013, 9:39 AM
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So if I were to purchase say a stag pistol lower from someplace like gun broker and have it transfered to an FFL would that be legal since its an OLL
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Old 06-28-2013, 9:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usmcchet9296 View Post
So if I were to purchase say a stag pistol lower from someplace like gun broker and have it transfered to an FFL would that be legal since its an OLL
No, because the lower would have to be shipped as a long gun or else it'd be subject to the Pistol roster.

If its registered as a long gun, you can't make it into a pistol.
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  #12  
Old 06-28-2013, 9:58 AM
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Ok great thanks and yes I know I could look this up but hey its slow at my work on fridays and no one here is obligated to answer my redundant questions but I do appreciate it
so its looking like I will have to get an 80% lower and I know I have to machine it but are there places I can take it to that have the machines and would allow me to use them?
I would be putting this together over time and cant afford to buy a pistol complete outright so thats why Im asking about lowers
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  #13  
Old 06-28-2013, 9:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usmcchet9296 View Post
So if I were to purchase say a stag pistol lower from someplace like gun broker and have it transfered to an FFL would that be legal since its an OLL
Again, unless your roster-exempt (are you?). Then a FFL will not transfer a pistol lower to you as such. It will be transferred to you like a regular stripped lower (rifle).
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  #14  
Old 06-28-2013, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by usmcchet9296 View Post
so its looking like I will have to get an 80% lower and I know I have to machine it but are there places I can take it to that have the machines and would allow me to use them?
Where are you located? Someone may be able to point you in the right direction.
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Old 06-28-2013, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by wavelengthsf View Post
No, because the lower would have to be shipped as a long gun or else it'd be subject to the Pistol roster.

If its registered as a long gun, you can't make it into a pistol.
^^^^^^^This^^^^^^^

You're in kind of a "Catch-22". The AR Pistol itself is legal, provided it's in a legal configuration.

But:

You cannot build one from a lower that once was a rifle without going through the DOJ testing process ($$$$$) (PC 33210).

You cannot DROS a pistol lower because none are on the safe handgun roster and the requirements to be on the roster (drop testing, loaded chamber indicator or mag disconnect) cannot be met by a lower or frame only.

You cannot build a semi-auto handgun from an 80% lower (PC 32000).

And, from just having done a very quick scan of the roster, there are no .223 handguns listed, leading me to conclude (and if someone knows better, please join the discussion) that no AR pistols are currently on the roster.

Last edited by RickD427; 06-28-2013 at 10:11 AM..
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  #16  
Old 06-28-2013, 10:10 AM
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At this point I would just go an AR pistol lower. a lot less messy than dealing with all the issues popping up.

I think Ammo bros had one
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  #17  
Old 06-28-2013, 10:22 AM
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if you cant dros a pistol lower and you cant build a pistol out of a 80% lower than im wondering how people can have all the ones I see at the range. None are single shot
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  #18  
Old 06-28-2013, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usmcchet9296 View Post
if you cant dros a pistol lower and you cant build a pistol out of a 80% lower than im wondering how people can have all the ones I see at the range. None are single shot
buy complete pistol, SSE it
you can't just buy a lower & reg it unless you are "special"
or build a 80%
YES YOU CAN BUILD A 80%

I have done both
bought a pistol on gunbroker
seller put in sled & BB & shipped to my dealer
I even put it on my CCW
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Old 06-28-2013, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 12voltguy View Post
buy complete pistol, SSE it
you can't just buy a lower & reg it unless you are "special"
or build a 80%
YES YOU CAN BUILD A 80%

I have done both
bought a pistol on gunbroker
seller put in sled & BB & shipped to my dealer
I even put it on my CCW
Sir,

I beleive you're mistaken on the 80% semi-auto build issue. You may have done it, but it cannot legally be done today. Here is the applicable law:

Penal Code 32000 - Prohibiting the manufacture of "Unsafe Handguns":
32000. (a) Commencing January 1, 2001, any person in this state who
manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state
for sale, keeps for sale, offers or exposes for sale, gives, or lends
any unsafe handgun shall be punished by imprisonment in a county
jail not exceeding one year.
(Please carefully note the reference to "any person." This section does not apply only to commercial builders.)

Penal Code section 31910 - Defining "Unsafe Handguns":
31910. As used in this part, "unsafe handgun" means any pistol,
revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the
person, for which any of the following is true:
(a) For a revolver:
(1) It does not have a safety device that, either automatically in
the case of a double-action firing mechanism, or by manual operation
in the case of a single-action firing mechanism, causes the hammer
to retract to a point where the firing pin does not rest upon the
primer of the cartridge.
(2) It does not meet the firing requirement for handguns.
(3) It does not meet the drop safety requirement for handguns.
(b) For a pistol:
(1) It does not have a positive manually operated safety device,
as determined by standards relating to imported guns promulgated by
the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.
(2) It does not meet the firing requirement for handguns.
(3) It does not meet the drop safety requirement for handguns.
(4) Commencing January 1, 2006, for a center fire semiautomatic
pistol that is not already listed on the roster pursuant to Section
32015, it does not have either a chamber load indicator, or a
magazine disconnect mechanism.
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Old 06-28-2013, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickD427 View Post
Sir,

I beleive you're mistaken on the 80% semi-auto build issue. You may have done it, but it cannot legally be done today. Here is the applicable law:

Penal Code 32000 - Prohibiting the manufacture of "Unsafe Handguns":
32000. (a) Commencing January 1, 2001, any person in this state who
manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state
for sale, keeps for sale, offers or exposes for sale, gives, or lends
any unsafe handgun shall be punished by imprisonment in a county
jail not exceeding one year.
(Please carefully note the reference to "any person." This section does not apply only to commercial builders.)

Penal Code section 31910 - Defining "Unsafe Handguns":
31910. As used in this part, "unsafe handgun" means any pistol,
revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the
person, for which any of the following is true:
(a) For a revolver:
(1) It does not have a safety device that, either automatically in
the case of a double-action firing mechanism, or by manual operation
in the case of a single-action firing mechanism, causes the hammer
to retract to a point where the firing pin does not rest upon the
primer of the cartridge.
(2) It does not meet the firing requirement for handguns.
(3) It does not meet the drop safety requirement for handguns.
(b) For a pistol:
(1) It does not have a positive manually operated safety device,
as determined by standards relating to imported guns promulgated by
the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.
(2) It does not meet the firing requirement for handguns.
(3) It does not meet the drop safety requirement for handguns.
(4) Commencing January 1, 2006, for a center fire semiautomatic
pistol that is not already listed on the roster pursuant to Section
32015, it does not have either a chamber load indicator, or a
magazine disconnect mechanism.
you have to build your 80% as SSE, this avoids the "not safe" hangun IE: roster
10.5" overall
6" min barrel
bb
0 rd sled

then you may remove sled
install 10rd mag & be semi auto

people do it everyday, tons of build threads on here.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...ight=ar+pistol
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  #21  
Old 06-28-2013, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usmcchet9296 View Post
if you cant dros a pistol lower and you cant build a pistol out of a 80% lower than im wondering how people can have all the ones I see at the range. None are single shot
They were built as single shot, using a magazine lock (bullet button) and a mag-sled (bobsled magazine or standard mag blocked to 0 round capacity).

After building a single shot, there are no laws preventing you from modifying it to semi-auto (removing sled and using 10 round mags).

You could skip the single-shot part of the build and nobody would know, but it would still be illegal. So I suggest going the safe route: build it with a single-round sled, take a picture in single configuration, keep pic in safe to prove it if ever needed, modify to normal capacity.
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Old 06-28-2013, 10:49 AM
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Can you buy one new?

Upper and lower - yes if SSE'd.
Lower only - No unless you are roster exempt. (LEO)
Out of state - Yes, but must be SSE'd and and mag locked. (bullet button) So most out of state will not deal with you.

Can you PPT one? -Yes. Some FFL's require the lower be marked "PISTOL", and some FFL's require a legal magazine and / or the SSE single shot sled be included for PPT. Some will or won't do a PPT for "just a lower" because of the safe handling demonstration requirement. EACH FFL can have their own policies on the matter, but PPT'ing one is easier generally.
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Old 06-28-2013, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
I beleive you're mistaken on the 80% semi-auto build issue. You may have done it, but it cannot legally be done today. Here is the applicable law:
Semi-auto is the key word here. Don't build it as semi-auto, but as single shot only. Single shot must have more than 6" barrel with overall pistol length at least 10.5"

Here is the PC

12125. (a) Commencing January 1, 2001, any person in this state who
manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state
for sale, keeps for sale, offers or exposes for sale, gives, or lends
any unsafe handgun shall be punished by imprisonment in a county
jail not exceeding one year.
(b) This section shall not apply to any of the following:
(1) The manufacture in this state, or importation into this state,
of any prototype pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being
concealed upon the person when the manufacture or importation is for
the sole purpose of allowing an independent laboratory certified by
the Department of Justice pursuant to Section 12130 to conduct an ...

[omitted]

...12133. (a) The provisions of this chapter shall not apply to a
single-action revolver that has at least a 5-cartridge capacity with
a barrel length of not less than three inches, and meets any of the
following specifications:
(1) Was originally manufactured prior to 1900 and is a curio or
relic, as defined in Section 478.11 of Title 27 of the Code of
Federal Regulations.
(2) Has an overall length measured parallel to the barrel of at
least 7 1/2 inches when the handle, frame or receiver, and barrel are
assembled.
(3) Has an overall length measured parallel to the barrel of at
least 7 1/2 inches when the handle, frame or receiver, and barrel are
assembled and that is currently approved for importation into the
United States pursuant to the provisions of paragraph (3) of
subsection (d) of Section 925 of Title 18 of the United States Code.
(b) The provisions of this chapter shall not apply to a
single-shot pistol with a barrel length of not less than six inches
and that has an overall length of at least 10 1/2 inches when the
handle, frame or receiver, and barrel are assembled.


.

Last edited by asm_; 06-28-2013 at 11:48 AM..
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Old 06-28-2013, 12:17 PM
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Cheese and rice...
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Old 06-28-2013, 12:20 PM
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Cheese and rice...
They don't usually go together, unless you are from SF...
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Old 06-28-2013, 12:26 PM
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From what I have heard the best route would be to purchase a pistol upper, find a FFL that will setup a legal config lower for me and I will have a legal AR pistol.
I could go the 80% route but when all is said and done it wont cost me any difference to just have a FFL dealer set a lower up for me but he will need a pistol upper in order to configure the single shot according to CA standards
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Old 06-28-2013, 12:43 PM
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Be careful when you do that. Having both short barrel upper and lower registered as rifle in possession can land in you hot water. If you are house ever get raid by ATF, they have the option to hit you with a constrictive possession for SBR without proper tax stamp.

.
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Old 06-28-2013, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asm_ View Post
Semi-auto is the key word here. Don't build it as semi-auto, but as single shot only. Single shot must have more than 6" barrel with overall pistol length at least 10.5"

Here is the PC

12125. (a) Commencing January 1, 2001, any person in this state who
manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state
for sale, keeps for sale, offers or exposes for sale, gives, or lends
any unsafe handgun shall be punished by imprisonment in a county
jail not exceeding one year.
(b) This section shall not apply to any of the following:
(1) The manufacture in this state, or importation into this state,
of any prototype pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being
concealed upon the person when the manufacture or importation is for
the sole purpose of allowing an independent laboratory certified by
the Department of Justice pursuant to Section 12130 to conduct an ...

[omitted]

...12133. (a) The provisions of this chapter shall not apply to a
single-action revolver that has at least a 5-cartridge capacity with
a barrel length of not less than three inches, and meets any of the
following specifications:
(1) Was originally manufactured prior to 1900 and is a curio or
relic, as defined in Section 478.11 of Title 27 of the Code of
Federal Regulations.
(2) Has an overall length measured parallel to the barrel of at
least 7 1/2 inches when the handle, frame or receiver, and barrel are
assembled.
(3) Has an overall length measured parallel to the barrel of at
least 7 1/2 inches when the handle, frame or receiver, and barrel are
assembled and that is currently approved for importation into the
United States pursuant to the provisions of paragraph (3) of
subsection (d) of Section 925 of Title 18 of the United States Code.
(b) The provisions of this chapter shall not apply to a
single-shot pistol with a barrel length of not less than six inches
and that has an overall length of at least 10 1/2 inches when the
handle, frame or receiver, and barrel are assembled.


.
ASM,

You're correct in your understanding of the law on SSE. My postings addressed the semi-auto build.

The SSE path is pretty well-worn for commercially manufactured weapons.

But as for homebuilds, in today's legal environment, things may not be so clear-cut. Here's an excerpt from a posting I made in another thread on the same subject. Just presented here as "food for thought":
"The SSE is coming under close scrutiny. The SSE has been a successful "work-around", although not in the way the law intended, for quite a while now.

There is a potential problem, that has not yet presented itself, but given the agendas of many prosecuting agencies, and DOJ, is worth considering.

The traditional SSE relies on the fact that a weapon was "manufactured", then sold to a dealer, "converted" to SSE, DROS'd, and then "converted" back to its original configuration. As long as everyone sees the difference between "manufacturing" (which would be illegal) and "converting" (which is legal) it works. The process is facilitated because there is a clear record of the "manufacturing" step being completed when the weapon is first sold to a dealer. When a private builder does the "manufacturing", things get a little more complicated for a homebuild. As the weapon progresses from being "only a piece of metal" to its final state as a semi-auto, you have to maintain that "manufacturing" stopped prior to the SSE stage and only "converting" occurred after that. A prosecutor can make the argument "he started with a piece of metal and ended up with a semi-auto handgun." If the jury buys that argument, a conviction can result.

This hasn't happened yet. There is no case law to cite. The concern is forward looking. But remember all the sages that advised "There is no constructive possession of an AW in California, just keep the weapon disassembled?" Then along comes a creative prosecutor who gets a conviction (People v Nguyen) on a person who had the parts to make an AW. I can see that same prosecutor taking on the SSE. I not too sorry to see Mr. Nguyen go off to jail. He had the criminal history that should put him there, but I am concerned about the prosecutorial "twist" of the law that put him there.

For the folks that want to go the SSE route on a homebuild, that's certainly their right, it's just wise to keep the eyes open."
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Old 06-28-2013, 1:18 PM
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Fair warning.

The issue of how to proof a pistol ever meet the SSE requirement has always been debated. Although many have suggested that CA penal code goes by the principle that the burden of proof is on the prosecutor's side. AKA, innocent until proven guilty. In practice, is this enough to keep the builder out of hot water? Probably. But, personally, I want better odd than "probably".

Now, allow me to offer a suggestion. I think it may be prudent to register the said pistol in its single-shot configuration prior converting it to semi-auto configuration. This may serve as a proof needed to show the pistol was indeed built as single-shot pistol. After the registration has been completed, you are free to convert to semi-auto without additional paper works.

.

Last edited by asm_; 06-28-2013 at 2:12 PM..
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Old 06-28-2013, 1:49 PM
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Dude...after all this reading my head is like spinning . I cannot have a AK pistol, no mags greater than 10, only a 16" barrel, no silencers, no 50 BMG...etc, But I can smoke pot all day and night in California. Gotta love our politicians.... Just venting...please dont flame me.
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Old 06-28-2013, 2:06 PM
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You can definitely own an AK pistol. 50bmg rifles are out of the question, but a M2HB isn't a rifle ( )

RickD,
who are you citing? It's mostly FUD.

- prosecutor has to proove you built a semi auto from the get go and didnt SSE (see: burden of proof) which is probably why there is no case law.

Nguyen involved a prohibited person, how does that part always get left out by the chicken little types?
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Old 06-28-2013, 2:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickD427 View Post
ASM,

You're correct in your understanding of the law on SSE. My postings addressed the semi-auto build.

The SSE path is pretty well-worn for commercially manufactured weapons.

But as for homebuilds, in today's legal environment, things may not be so clear-cut. Here's an excerpt from a posting I made in another thread on the same subject. Just presented here as "food for thought":
"The SSE is coming under close scrutiny. The SSE has been a successful "work-around", although not in the way the law intended, for quite a while now.

There is a potential problem, that has not yet presented itself, but given the agendas of many prosecuting agencies, and DOJ, is worth considering.

The traditional SSE relies on the fact that a weapon was "manufactured", then sold to a dealer, "converted" to SSE, DROS'd, and then "converted" back to its original configuration. As long as everyone sees the difference between "manufacturing" (which would be illegal) and "converting" (which is legal) it works. The process is facilitated because there is a clear record of the "manufacturing" step being completed when the weapon is first sold to a dealer. When a private builder does the "manufacturing", things get a little more complicated for a homebuild. As the weapon progresses from being "only a piece of metal" to its final state as a semi-auto, you have to maintain that "manufacturing" stopped prior to the SSE stage and only "converting" occurred after that. A prosecutor can make the argument "he started with a piece of metal and ended up with a semi-auto handgun." If the jury buys that argument, a conviction can result.

This hasn't happened yet. There is no case law to cite. The concern is forward looking. But remember all the sages that advised "There is no constructive possession of an AW in California, just keep the weapon disassembled?" Then along comes a creative prosecutor who gets a conviction (People v Nguyen) on a person who had the parts to make an AW. I can see that same prosecutor taking on the SSE. I not too sorry to see Mr. Nguyen go off to jail. He had the criminal history that should put him there, but I am concerned about the prosecutorial "twist" of the law that put him there.

For the folks that want to go the SSE route on a homebuild, that's certainly their right, it's just wise to keep the eyes open."
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrPlink View Post
You can definitely own an AK pistol. 50bmg rifles are out of the question, but a M2HB isn't a rifle ( )

RickD,
who are you citing? It's mostly FUD.

- prosecutor has to proove you built a semi auto from the get go and didnt SSE (see: burden of proof) which is probably why there is no case law.

Nguyen involved a prohibited person, how does that part always get left out by the chicken little types?
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Old 06-28-2013, 3:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrPlink View Post
You can definitely own an AK pistol. 50bmg rifles are out of the question, but a M2HB isn't a rifle ( )

RickD,
who are you citing? It's mostly FUD.

- prosecutor has to proove you built a semi auto from the get go and didnt SSE (see: burden of proof) which is probably why there is no case law.

Nguyen involved a prohibited person, how does that part always get left out by the chicken little types?
Mr. Plink,

How did an AK pistol come into this discussion? I never mentioned one. BTW, you are correct about the .50 BMG, but also, how did that come into the discussion?

The reason that Nguyen being a prohibited person doesn't come into the discussion is that it simply isn't relevant to the decision.

You're dead wrong that a prosecutor has to disprove that you built an SSE. The prosecutor only has to show that you "manufactured" a semi-auto. They could equally well argue that your action in changing the weapon from a single shot to semi-auto was "manufacturing". The burden of proof belongs to the prosecution, but they get to decide how to meet that burden.

Last edited by RickD427; 06-29-2013 at 4:52 AM..
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Old 06-28-2013, 3:49 PM
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well im exploring a few options and I do appreciate all the responses
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Old 06-28-2013, 3:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickD427 View Post
Mr. Plink,

How did an AK pistol come into theis discussion? I never mentioned one. BTW, you are correct about the .50 BMG, but also, how did that come into the discussion?
The reason that Nguyen being a prohibited person doesn't come into the discussion is that it simply isn't relevant to the decision.

You're dead wrong that a prosecutor has to disprove that you built an SSE. The prosecutor only has to show that you "manufactured" a semi-auto. They could equally well argue that your action in changing the weapon from a single shot to semi-auto was "manufacturing". The burden of proof belongs to the prosecution, but they get to decide how to meet that burden.
post #30

BS
same as a hi-cap mag
they have to prove you made a hi cap, you don't have to prove you legally own one.
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Old 06-28-2013, 4:03 PM
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I've bought several AR pistols via PPT, and all of them went thru different LGSs. None of them mentioned or required the need for a single shot sled. The first time I PPT'ed, they checked to make sure the 30rd mag was blocked to 10 rounds. Subsequent purchases I made sure to have a 10rd mag to put it in jail with.
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Old 06-28-2013, 4:03 PM
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And since assuming anybody we are talking about building a sse pistol is not a prohibited person then Nguyen is irrelevant.

I would love to see any case law that states conversion of action =s from one legal form to another is considered manufacting.
Or better yet, show me a statute or or atf memo that is even remotely analogous to this idea?

I swear I've had this almost same exact conversation 3 times this year with people using their own made up legal analysis, I'm starting to wonder if you people are all the same person
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Old 06-28-2013, 4:12 PM
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OK! So FUD here is getting thick, who exactly is working for feinswine.

Last edited by michiganboy; 06-28-2013 at 4:33 PM..
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Old 06-28-2013, 4:42 PM
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Not me. I'm on the VADFC (Vets Against Dianne Feinstein Commision).
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Old 06-28-2013, 4:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrPlink View Post
I would love to see any case law that states conversion of action =s from one legal form to another is considered manufacting.
Just to pile on top of that, since 01 FFL can now do the conversion to SSE, I would take that as a definitive example where pop in a mag sled and swap out a barrel does not constitute as manufacturing firearm.

.
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