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  #1  
Old 05-24-2013, 8:52 AM
Fishbone684 Fishbone684 is offline
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Default Ruger MK III 22/45 legal?

Hi everyone. I'm planning to move back to CA and have a question regarding my pistol. This was a birthday present, so I would like to hold onto it if possible. It has the threaded barrel, so would pinning make it okay? Also, I read here that RP (replaceable panels) models aren't allowed. This is a RP model, so can anything be done with this?
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  #2  
Old 05-24-2013, 9:23 AM
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RP as in the grip panels? If so those are ok, no issues. You'll need to permanently attach some type of "thread protector" on the end. Not sure if a pin is enough or you'll have to weld the pin in place. (most likely the later).
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Old 05-24-2013, 9:39 AM
Fishbone684 Fishbone684 is offline
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Hello. Yes, RP meaning the grip panels. I honestly cannot understand why grips would be a problem, but this thread has me confused:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=474510

I can understand the threaded barrel, but this is totally a new one for me.
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Old 05-24-2013, 9:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishbone684 View Post
Hello. Yes, RP meaning the grip panels. I honestly cannot understand why grips would be a problem, but this thread has me confused:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=474510

I can understand the threaded barrel, but this is totally a new one for me.
They are talking about which 22/45 models are on the CA DOJ "Approved Roster" for sale here in the prk. The removable grip panel models were not on the roster and thus could not be purchased at the retail level here in commifornia. But since (if?) you legally acquired yours while a resident of another state, you can bring it with you when you move, as long as the threaded barrel has been permanently disabled with welded on collar or pinned collar (if that is legal) before bringing it into the state.

Once here (the firearm that is), you have 60 days to register it with the doj via an OP Law form. will cost you $19 and a stamp.
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Old 05-24-2013, 9:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishbone684 View Post
Hello. Yes, RP meaning the grip panels. I honestly cannot understand why grips would be a problem, but this thread has me confused:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=474510

I can understand the threaded barrel, but this is totally a new one for me.
California has an approved handgun list and the 22/45 with RP is not on the list making it illegal for a retailer to sell to non-exempt folks. It's completely legal to own if you come into the state with one or you buy a replacement frame that has RP or if you get it through a private party transfer.

At the end, it's all just silly technicality. A 22/45 is legal or own but illegal for stores to sell unless you are exempt. Stupid, I know
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Old 05-24-2013, 10:03 AM
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BTW - if you need to have it welded I would suggest pining the protector (at the threads) and weld the pin to the protector... don't weld the protector directly to the barrel. If you move back you can reverse the process this way. (lots of info on AR15.com about pining short barreled rifles, AR pistols, etc and removal later)

Welcome back to CA. Welcome to CGN and the state's stupid laws.
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  #7  
Old 05-24-2013, 1:32 PM
Fishbone684 Fishbone684 is offline
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Thanks for all the info guys. It really is pretty difficult trying to decipher through all the strange laws down there. I'll go ahead and see about getting it pinned the way described in the post above.

One last question regarding this part:

Quote:
Originally Posted by sofbak View Post
Once here (the firearm that is), you have 60 days to register it with the doj via an OP Law form. will cost you $19 and a stamp.
I'm guessing OP means Outside Purchase? Is this basically the same as simply buying something from the LGS? Or is does this lean more towards registering an assault weapon?
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Old 05-24-2013, 1:39 PM
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sofbak is mistaken it is not the OP Law form it is the "New Resident Handgun Ownership Report" form in this case

OP Law is short for Report of Operation of Law or Intra-Familial Handgun Transaction
It is for transfer that are an operation of law such as spousal transfer, inheritance, operation of a estate/will, intrafamily transfers etc

Yes, kinda the same sort of registration that would have been done at an FFL here in CA if you had purchased it here.
All handgun purchases/transfers in CA are required to be registered after 1991 I think it was.
Rifle registration at time of purchase/transfer starts next year.

No, this is not like an Assault Weapon Registration.
Registration period for Assault Weapons is long closed.

That is why your pistol with a threaded barrel under CA law is considered an AW and must have its feature of a threaded barrel removed to not be an AW.


Please see the Pistol Flow Chart:
http://www.calguns.net/caawid/hgflowchart.pdf

Here is the actual CA PC:
Quote:
30515. (a) Notwithstanding Section 30510, "assault weapon" also
means any of the following:
(1) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has the capacity to
accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:
(A) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action
of the weapon.
(B) A thumbhole stock.
(C) A folding or telescoping stock.
(D) A grenade launcher or flare launcher.
(E) A flash suppressor.
(F) A forward pistol grip.
(2) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has a fixed magazine
with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.
(3) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has an overall length
of less than 30 inches.
(4) A semiautomatic pistol that has the capacity to accept a
detachable magazine and any one of the following:

(A) A threaded barrel, capable of accepting a flash suppressor,
forward handgrip, or silencer.

(B) A second handgrip.
(C) A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely
encircles, the barrel that allows the bearer to fire the weapon
without burning the bearer's hand, except a slide that encloses the
barrel.
(D) The capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location
outside of the pistol grip.
(5) A semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that has the
capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.
Also if you have rifles you might want to look the rifle flow chart over:
http://www.calguns.net/caawid/flowchart.pdf
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  #9  
Old 05-24-2013, 1:52 PM
Fishbone684 Fishbone684 is offline
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Fair enough. I had forgotten to ask if I had to file the form on rifles as well. But I just looked at Wiki and it only pertains to handguns. No worries, as all my handguns were purchased in CA (with the exception of this one). Was starting to get worried - $19 + $19 + $19 + + + - it adds up quick!

I was almost prepared to just sell this one, so thanks again for the responses guys!
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Old 05-24-2013, 1:54 PM
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No as long as you move back to CA before Jan 1st 2014 you do not need to report your rifles. (and they would be reported on a different form, which I'm not sure they have even made yet)

Are your rifles CA legal?
Tell us what you have if you are unsure.
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  #11  
Old 05-24-2013, 2:01 PM
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Yes, I'll be back in CA sometime within 2 months.

The only rifles/shotguns I'm having problems with are:

FAL built on Imbel receiver and Saiga 12. I've already ordered the bullet buttons for each. I'm thinking that I should be ok with that, as long as my mags don't exceed 10 rds.

I just glanced at your featureless build link. So even with a bullet button, I'd never be able to use my standard 20 rd mags in the FAL? Because it has the pistol grip?
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Old 05-24-2013, 2:10 PM
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Yes with a fixed magazine (magazine locked) rifle by definition you can not use a magazine that has the capacity to accept over 10 rounds.
By inserting a 20 round magazine into a fixed magazine rifle you have created an AW.

Quote:
30515. (a) Notwithstanding Section 30510, "assault weapon" also
means any of the following:
[...]
(2) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has a fixed magazine
with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.

If you have a featureless rifle they are not limited to a magazine size by definition under the law. But you can not have any features.

Quote:
30515. (a) Notwithstanding Section 30510, "assault weapon" also
means any of the following:
(1) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has the capacity to
accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:
(A) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action
of the weapon.
(B) A thumbhole stock.
(C) A folding or telescoping stock.
(D) A grenade launcher or flare launcher.
(E) A flash suppressor.
(F) A forward pistol grip.
So yes if you remove all the features from your FAL it would be legal as a featureless rifle.
It would not need a magazine lock and you could use large-capacity magazines in it.
But theres the issue about the magazines themselves...

Did you own your 10+ magazines in CA prior to Jan 1st 2000?
If not it is illegal to bring them into CA assembled and/or put them back together without limiting them to 10 rounds.
If you did own them in CA prior to Jan 1st 2000 it is fine to bring them back.

Quote:
(a)Any person in this state who does any of the following is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or in the state prison:
[...]
(2)Commencing January 1, 2000, manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, or lends, any large-capacity magazine.

Shotguns have their own rules too:
http://www.calguns.net/caawid/sgflowchart.pdf

Semi automatic shotguns can not have detachable magazines so you will need the magazine lock on it. There is no such thing as a featureless detachable magazine semiautomatic shotgun in CA
Also be aware a semiautomatic shotgun that has both a folding or telescoping stock and a pistol grip is an AW

Quote:
(6) A semiautomatic shotgun that has both of the following:
(A) A folding or telescoping stock.
(B) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action
of the weapon, thumbhole stock, or vertical handgrip.
(7) A semiautomatic shotgun that has the ability to accept a
detachable magazine.
(8) Any shotgun with a revolving cylinder.
Is your Saiga 12 converted?
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  #13  
Old 05-24-2013, 2:27 PM
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No, the Saiga12 is bone stock. No pistol grip nor folding stock. The only modification it'll have is the mag lock.

Okay, so I have a featureless Mini30 with pre-ban 30 rounders. I can shoot the hell out of that thing all I want. But the FAL, I wouldn't be able to use anything over 10rds regardless of whether the mags were pre-ban? Unless I do away with the pistol grip?
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Old 05-24-2013, 2:40 PM
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Yes Saiga 12 needs a mag lock.
Mini 30 is fine if it is indeed featureless.. make sure it does not have a Flash Suppressor/Hider or any other feature

Really theres no such thing as "pre-ban" magazines in CA.
There are magazines you owned prior to Jan 1st 2000 in CA.
Doesn't matter if you owned them in a different state prior to Jan 1st it matters if you had them in CA prior to that date.

If the FAL is magazine locked then it can never have a magazine that has the ability to take over 10 rounds inserted into it.

You could make the FAL a featureless by removing all its features and not use a magazine lock. There are grip wraps to take care of the pistol grip. You would have to make sure you have a muzzle brake or comp not a flash hider/suppressor. It would need a fixed stock (shoudlnt be a problem) and could not have any other feature
Features are:
Pistol grip.
Thumbhole stock.
Folding or telescoping stock.
Grenade launcher or flare launcher.
Flash suppressor.
Forward pistol grip.

Again if you did not have your "large-capacity magazines" in CA prior to Jan 1st 2000 it will be illegal for you to bring them into the state with you when you move here again.
This would fall under the crime of importing in the above PC I listed 12020.
(Disassembled they are not magazines and are legal to bring)
(Put them back together and you have committed the crime of manufacturing)

If you owned them in the state prior to that date they are fine to bring back.
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Old 05-24-2013, 2:47 PM
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Okay, I think most my questions are answered for now. I should be safe as far as what I currently have. I better start looking for a local gunsmith who can work on the threaded barrel for me. Oh, I might as well ask since this is good time .... stripped AR15 and FAL receivers wouldn't need a mag lock installed just for when I'm moving into the state, right?
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Old 05-24-2013, 3:02 PM
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No stripped lowers do not need magazine locks because they are not centerfire semiautomatic rifles yet.

Good Luck on the smith, don't skimp on one for this kind of work imo.

BTW since the way the 22/45's barrel and receiver is settup you could have a muzzle device welded / pinned onto it instead of a thread protector since it won't cause any problems dissembling it...

For example if you had a GLOCK barrel that had a pinned / welded muzzle device it would pretty much be stuck in the frame because of how the barrel is in relation to the frame. But with the 22/45 you would not have that issue.
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Old 05-24-2013, 3:18 PM
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You bring up a good point. If I'm going to have something pinned, it may as well be something "good". I've never given it much thought before, so I'll surf around and see what's offered.

As far as the smith is concerned, my time here is somewhat limited. I found a local guy, but he's not taking any new work at the moment. If it comes down to it, can I send this to a smith in the Los Angeles area and pick it up in person once it's finished? Or would it be a no-no sending it into CA in its current configuration?
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Old 05-24-2013, 3:24 PM
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erased Sorry I duplicated my post go down two posts

Last edited by donmopar; 05-24-2013 at 4:12 PM..
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Old 05-24-2013, 3:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishbone684 View Post
You bring up a good point. If I'm going to have something pinned, it may as well be something "good". I've never given it much thought before, so I'll surf around and see what's offered.

As far as the smith is concerned, my time here is somewhat limited. I found a local guy, but he's not taking any new work at the moment. If it comes down to it, can I send this to a smith in the Los Angeles area and pick it up in person once it's finished? Or would it be a no-no sending it into CA in its current configuration?
Smith would have to have to be a FFL with an AW Permit in that case.
Problem is with the 22/45 and MK series the barreled upper is the serialized part that counts as the firearm. Unlike most firearms that the grip frame is the firearm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by donmopar View Post
I was of the opinion that you cannot import or export mags without a permit or license of some sort. With that thought you should not have taken them out of the state and you definitly can't bring them back. Now someone tell me if I am wrong on this. Does it only apply to dealers. I have often wondered if I took my magazines out of state can I bring them back. I have always thought no. With moving out of state does it change anything.
Sorry you are wrong.

If you had the "large-capacity magazine" inside CA prior to Jan 1st 2000 it can then later leave the state and come back.
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Old 05-24-2013, 3:27 PM
Fishbone684 Fishbone684 is offline
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I was told elsewhere that as long as you owned them in CA, you can always bring them back in regardless of whether you maintained residency.
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Old 05-24-2013, 3:29 PM
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I was of the opinion that you cannot import or export mags without a permit or license of some sort. With that thought you should not take them out of state and you definitly can't bring them back. Now someone tell me if I am wrong on this. Does it only apply to dealers. I have often wondered if I took my magazines out of state can I bring them back. I have always thought no. With moving out of state does it change anything.

Last edited by donmopar; 05-24-2013 at 4:09 PM..
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Old 05-24-2013, 3:31 PM
Fishbone684 Fishbone684 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos47 View Post
Smith would have to have to be a FFL with an AW Permit in that case.
Gotcha. I never would have guessed on the AW permit. Good thing I asked.

Thanks for all the help, Chaos.
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Old 05-24-2013, 3:36 PM
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Yup our laws are crazy to navigate.
I'm sure there are smiths out there with an FFL and have their AW permit but you would have to go thru the trouble to find one.

No problem, glad I could help!
Goodluck!
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Old 05-25-2013, 5:54 AM
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Now why would you want to move back here to Communist California?
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