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  #1  
Old 05-18-2013, 8:57 AM
Maurice Maurice is offline
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Default Member Renewal Refused

I am a long time shooter at the Folsom Shooting Club near Ione Ca. I became a member after my son was old enough to join me at the range (6). He is now 13 and has qualified at many of the individual ranges.

Last weekend my son and went out to the range. I was informed my membership had expired and would not be renewed. I was told I could still shoot on the limited public range, paying the higher public rates. The ranges my son and I qualified for are closed to the public. We are now the public.

I can't imagine what the Board of Directors of the Folsom Shooting Club could be thinking, at a time our gun rights are under assault from all sides.
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Old 05-18-2013, 11:29 AM
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A little strange. Could it be you let it expire and have to go through a renewal process?
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Old 05-18-2013, 12:41 PM
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There is some information available on their website. http://sacvalley.org/

It looks like they have made changes to the bylaws to limit the number of voting members and are making membership more exclusive.
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  #4  
Old 05-18-2013, 1:04 PM
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That sucks for an old time member,
I think i would put up a protest sign at the entrance
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  #5  
Old 05-18-2013, 2:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutch3 View Post
There is some information available on their website. http://sacvalley.org/

It looks like they have made changes to the bylaws to limit the number of voting members and are making membership more exclusive.
The explaination on why they changed the rules is here.http://sacvalley.org/files/ByLawLetter.pdf

The deadline for renewing your membership and retaining your rights as a voting member was Feb 28, 2013 once the bylaws were changed.
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  #6  
Old 05-18-2013, 3:49 PM
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sounds like hog wash to me.

I can understand the problems they are having with crowding on the "members only" side but you have been a member for sometime now so I would think they would want longtime members to stay. Instead of giving current members the boot to a membership with limits they could have raised the price for membership and place the decision in the customers on whether to stay a member or not. Its it called "Equilibrium Pricing" and that is business 101. Simply raise price to control/limit demand. I have no doubt they are trying to do whats is best for the club but it seems their methods are not entirely logical. in the pdf they state a limit of 1911 voting members but leave read this

"We have enhanced membership making it transferable to a spouse or domestic partner upon the Voting Member’s death. We have created a path for children of Voting Members to become Voting Members upon reaching 18. This is intended to increase family participation and help develop a sense of a club family.
Voting Members are NOT required to attend Board meetings or perform volunteer hours."


and this

"A mechanism has been put in place that would help weed out those persons not really interested in being part of the club. Volunteer hours are required, range orientations and attendance at Board meetings are mandatory, but only for those Non-Voting Members that wish to petition for Voting Membership. Sponsorship is mandatory. A Membership Committee will review applications annually and admit Voting Members once a year, up to the Voting Member limit."

so you get the limited membership or just go back to general public but some kid of a voting member get a way to become a full fledged voting member. and the BS of no volunteer hours for voting members does nothing to instil membership pride. Pretty much all this says is we care not what you do while there, you can be a dick, have no manners, but as long as you drop loads of cash to maintain a voting member status you will always be welcome.

So a Non-voting member has to jump through hoops but still needs to be sponsored by a Voting member to be considered by the Membership Committee for approval to become a Voting member but spouse or kid of a member might have an easy in to a voting membership. sounds like a bunch of bs to me. Voting members get all the perks but do nothing more then shoot and write a check but on the other hand Non-voting members have to volunteer, attend meetings, be active at the club, and are still not guaranteed a full bells and whistles membership. Screw that! I will go somewhere else that deserves my time, participation, and money.
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  #7  
Old 05-18-2013, 8:25 PM
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All three of my kids put their first rounds down range at this club. Five years ago the Range Master gave my two girls their first box of .22 ammo free from the range. I could not have asked for a more supportive and welcoming range staff at that time.

The current board seems to have lost sight of the importance of involving a broad range of people in shooting sports. Limiting membership, creating barriers for future members, excluding the public, diminishes this range and hurts the community.
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  #8  
Old 05-20-2013, 10:36 AM
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Had the exact same thing happen to me as the OP. I have been a member for years, retired local law enforcement now federal. What was even more disturbing to me was the attitude of the "helper" at the desk who seemed rather gleeful that I could not be a member any longer. He actually laughed at me when I protested. They said that they might let me become a "junior" member in 60 days and I could "earn" my way to full membership at some point in the future.
So to recap, because they think there's too many members and it's causing some kind of problem, instead of capping memberships and allowing long time members to stay, the board just used the meat axe approach. I contacted the president of Sac Valley and was told in essience tough cookies.
The arrogance is astounding-it used to be a great place to shoot but I don't need to deal with the attitude.
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  #9  
Old 05-24-2013, 6:23 PM
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Just so everyone knows the true facts, the Board of Directors did not make the change on their own. It required a change in the By-Laws of the club, which required a vote by the members of the club.

The MEMBERS of the club voted on the proposed By-Law changes and the ballots were counted at the annual Membership meeting held on April 23, 2013, and it passed.

Annual dues are due on Jan1st. Members and non members had until the end of the business day on April 23 to pay their renewal fees or join the club to be grandfathered in. That is almost 4 months to get paid up.

Notifications of the proposed By-Law changes were posted on the club website, their Facebook page, in the monthly newsletter, and at the range office for months in advance. The ballot was sent out to all members with their renewal notice in the mail.

If anyone wants to place "blame" somewhere, put it on the membership. They voted for it.

The changes do not effect in any way the general public's access to the same parts of the range they had access to before. Non members can still shoot in competitive events shuch as IDPA, High Power, etc that they could before the changes. The changes have no effect on competition events held at the range. Long time members were not "cut out". If they had paid up their dues by the time required they got grandfathered in. The original deadline was in Feb and was extended to April just to give people a chance to renew or join.

It's a members responsibility to stay informed about what is going on with their club. That information was readily available in many places.
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  #10  
Old 05-24-2013, 6:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maurice View Post
I am a long time shooter at the Folsom Shooting Club near Ione Ca. I became a member after my son was old enough to join me at the range (6). He is now 13 and has qualified at many of the individual ranges.

Last weekend my son and went out to the range. I was informed my membership had expired and would not be renewed. I was told I could still shoot on the limited public range, paying the higher public rates. The ranges my son and I qualified for are closed to the public. We are now the public.

I can't imagine what the Board of Directors of the Folsom Shooting Club could be thinking, at a time our gun rights are under assault from all sides.
Don't sweat it. These never end well for those that try to limit membership. They end up driving people away and then in a few years they will be begging people to become members. Just wait.

Stupid is as Stupid does. There is enough problems with firearms in this state and these Jackwagons have just stepped on their own dicks. This place is an hour outside the city, want to see the traffic cut...here you go.
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  #11  
Old 05-24-2013, 8:11 PM
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Another former member here, I was a member for roughly 18 months and my last trip to the range was the October Calguns shoot. I never received a monthly newsletter, I didn't even know they had such a thing. Maybe it was stuck with my unanswered emails regarding volunteering at the Club.

First I heard of the changes was a post by BonnieB regarding the memberships not being available.

I'm not interested in being a "second class" member with forced "volunteering", board meetings,etc. for a chance at being a member.
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  #12  
Old 05-25-2013, 12:07 PM
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Members get exclusive pricing on Kimber SIS models.

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  #13  
Old 05-25-2013, 12:08 PM
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That is seriously screwed up.
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  #14  
Old 05-25-2013, 12:34 PM
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Sac Valley still has public access? 300 yard, 100 yard, pistol, rimfire, and Trap.

Or did they change to members only now? I was a member in 09-11, would like to revisit when I am in the area again.
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  #15  
Old 05-27-2013, 4:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pthfndr View Post
Just so everyone knows the true facts, the Board of Directors did not make the change on their own. It required a change in the By-Laws of the club, which required a vote by the members of the club.

The MEMBERS of the club voted on the proposed By-Law changes and the ballots were counted at the annual Membership meeting held on April 23, 2013, and it passed.

Annual dues are due on Jan1st. Members and non members had until the end of the business day on April 23 to pay their renewal fees or join the club to be grandfathered in. That is almost 4 months to get paid up.

Notifications of the proposed By-Law changes were posted on the club website, their Facebook page, in the monthly newsletter, and at the range office for months in advance. The ballot was sent out to all members with their renewal notice in the mail.

If anyone wants to place "blame" somewhere, put it on the membership. They voted for it.

The changes do not effect in any way the general public's access to the same parts of the range they had access to before. Non members can still shoot in competitive events shuch as IDPA, High Power, etc that they could before the changes. The changes have no effect on competition events held at the range. Long time members were not "cut out". If they had paid up their dues by the time required they got grandfathered in. The original deadline was in Feb and was extended to April just to give people a chance to renew or join.

It's a members responsibility to stay informed about what is going on with their club. That information was readily available in many places.
Sounds like a typical internal regime change. Someone wanted to be in charge. Got the boards support. Made sure enough voters that actually vote were on board and took over. Then started making new rules to "weed out" the undesirables to stay in power. Sounds like California.
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  #16  
Old 05-28-2013, 6:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pthfndr View Post
Just so everyone knows the true facts, the Board of Directors did not make the change on their own. It required a change in the By-Laws of the club, which required a vote by the members of the club.

The MEMBERS of the club voted on the proposed By-Law changes and the ballots were counted at the annual Membership meeting held on April 23, 2013, and it passed.

Annual dues are due on Jan1st. Members and non members had until the end of the business day on April 23 to pay their renewal fees or join the club to be grandfathered in. That is almost 4 months to get paid up.

Notifications of the proposed By-Law changes were posted on the club website, their Facebook page, in the monthly newsletter, and at the range office for months in advance. The ballot was sent out to all members with their renewal notice in the mail.

If anyone wants to place "blame" somewhere, put it on the membership. They voted for it.

The changes do not effect in any way the general public's access to the same parts of the range they had access to before. Non members can still shoot in competitive events shuch as IDPA, High Power, etc that they could before the changes. The changes have no effect on competition events held at the range. Long time members were not "cut out". If they had paid up their dues by the time required they got grandfathered in. The original deadline was in Feb and was extended to April just to give people a chance to renew or join.

It's a members responsibility to stay informed about what is going on with their club. That information was readily available in many places.
As I said when I wrote the president of the club, I recieved NO notice that the rules were changing and did NOT recieve a renewal notice. I knew that the dues were to be paid at the first of the year, but given the events in December and the huge push for gun control, decided to take the money and spend it on a LIFETIME membership in the NRA with the intent to pay my club dues when I had the money and could visit the range.
All that means nothing to the new "exculsive and elite" club that I used to belong to. To me, the attitude of the people I talked to was even more disturbing.
Enjoy your "exculsive and elite" club, hope your wonderful ideas pan out for you, there's other ranges in the area that will recieve my support.
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Old 05-28-2013, 6:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gemoose23 View Post
Sac Valley still has public access? 300 yard, 100 yard, pistol, rimfire, and Trap.
None of that has changed for the public.
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  #18  
Old 06-25-2013, 8:15 AM
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Just found out Sunday, I'm still pissed off. I went in sometime before the Sandy Hook thing and tried to renew but the systems were down.
I also never received an email that stated anything about what was going on. in fact they told me to get new people to join.

I was told I could get a membership for $120 per year but it would still only get me on the public ranges.

well I have access to 700+ acres of private land and will be going there.
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Close to the edge here brother.
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  #19  
Old 06-25-2013, 9:48 AM
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You're lucky Wizard. I wish I had access to private property where I could shoot. As it is, I will be going to one of the other clubs in the Sac area that
don't feel they have to "limit" membership.
I am also still pissed off and disappointed in their attitude. Rather than addressing the perceived problems of "troublemakers" they just took the arbitrary approach of throwing out the baby with the bath water without considering that would be losing valuable members and probably keeping some of the troublemakers. Their loss. I was a paid member for years. I will NEVER go back there and will actively discourage others from going there. Guess I'm a troublemaker now.
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Old 06-25-2013, 10:00 AM
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That is a shame.
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  #21  
Old 06-25-2013, 10:56 PM
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What a bunch of crap. Way to **** on your customers!
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  #22  
Old 06-25-2013, 11:25 PM
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What other ranges in the area are there besides Cordova, The Gun Range, and El Dorado Rod and Gun? None of those are comparable and 2 of them don't allow you to collect your brass. I was planning on joining next year but I'm not going to get a membership that limits me to the public range and requires volunteer hours, not that I know anyone who could sponsor me anyway. I'll find somewhere else to shoot my .308 when I get it. In fact I'll probably go shoot elsewhere tomorrow.
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Old 06-26-2013, 6:50 AM
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Sounds like they need to be boycotted until they correct their mistakes. It's a serious shame that they would take this type of approach in a time when gun owners need to stick together through all the opposition against us.
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  #24  
Old 06-26-2013, 6:58 AM
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Sad. I was looking at spending more time there. That's fine. I like backpacking and shooting anyways so time to find some great National Forest/BLM spots.
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Old 06-26-2013, 12:32 PM
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The membership may have voted on the changes, but someone on the board came up with the ideas. This sounds more like an elitist golf club mentality than a sportsman's club for gun-lovers. With 800+ acres, I would think they could handle more than 2000 members. After all, how many people are shooting at the same time? Our local club, SLOSA is a member of the Central California Firearms Education Foundation. It’s a non-profit corporation created to sponsor and educate the public regarding the proper use of varying types of firearms through instruction, coaching, and demonstration. Perhaps the organization in SAC has forgotten its primary purpose. Sorry to hear of your plight. I would find someplace else with a more “welcome to YOUR range” attitude and not be concerned with the Folsom Shooting Club; life is too short. I'd also drop a note to the NRA too.
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Old 06-26-2013, 3:29 PM
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I guess what pisses me off more than anything is I have been shooting at the Folsom Shooting Center sense it was on Sibley in Folsom, back in the 70's
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There used to be an old saying, "when guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns.."
My new saying is, "when the last informed shooter gets fed up setting the record straight from all the trolls, only trolls will be on Calguns.."
Close to the edge here brother.
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More what? More crazy?
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Old 06-26-2013, 4:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wazafuzz View Post
You're lucky Wizard. I wish I had access to private property where I could shoot. As it is, I will be going to one of the other clubs in the Sac area that
don't feel they have to "limit" membership.
I am also still pissed off and disappointed in their attitude. Rather than addressing the perceived problems of "troublemakers" they just took the arbitrary approach of throwing out the baby with the bath water without considering that would be losing valuable members and probably keeping some of the troublemakers. Their loss. I was a paid member for years. I will NEVER go back there and will actively discourage others from going there. Guess I'm a troublemaker now.

This is in line with my thoughts.

They stated that there were too many members and there were complaints about being able to access the private bays. I never used the private bays, I shot exclusively at the pistol and rifle range. So members with my same shooting habits wouldn't affect what they are trying to accomplish.

PDQ, need a shooting buddy?
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  #28  
Old 06-27-2013, 7:40 AM
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All,

My name is Vu Pham, and I am currently serving as the President of Folsom Shooting Club.

Pthfndr aka Rob T. currently serves as Vice President.

I will do my best to address most of these comments above.

These proposed bylaw changes were posted months in advance via various forms. FSC website, forum, FaceBook, newsletter posted on the web page, and discussed at every board meeting leading up to the Annual Membership Meeting on April 23rd, 2013.

Make no mistake here, NO MEMBERS were booted or kicked out of FSC. Everyone that was a member as of close of business on April 23rd was grandfathered in.

Our membership cap per the new bylaws is 1911, but the current number of voting members sits at 2485.

Our membership runs from Jan 1st to the end of December of each calendar year. Technically, if you do not renew your membership by the end of December, you are no longer a member. We have even allowed a grace period of January to renew a membership.

Any time after the end of January, you are technically buying a new membership prior to this bylaw change. We just allowed people to keep their current member number to keep logistics to a minimum.

In March of this year, almost 2000 ballots were sent out to every active member at the time. This ballot contained a spot to vote for board members, and to vote for proposed bylaw changes.

Prior to the ballots being sent out, the Board of Directors decided since this was a major change that will impact the club in many ways, we wanted to answer any concerns or questions our membership may have.

There was a Q&A session scheduled on March 30th, 2013 at Sac Valley Shooting Center. We had 4 board members and our operation manager present to answer any questions our membership may have. We were onsite from 2pm to almost 6pm that day.

Anyone want to take a guess on how many people showed up? Including board members, and our operation manager, it was a total of 5. Yes, 0 out of 2000 + members showed up.

Now we will fast forward to election night. After hours of counting, the vote was around 400 "yes", to 33 "no" on the proposed bylaw changes.

I do understand the frustration by some of our ex-members that did not renew their membership in time. I have personal friends that are now not members because they got caught up in day to day life activities and forgot to renew their memberships as well.

I know everyone is busy, and I understand everyone has a life outside the range. I serve FSC, serve on NCPPRC board, work full time, shoot competition, am a match director, and try to have a personal life outside of all that. Trust me, I understand busy all so well.

That being said, we all need to make time for what is important to us as individuals. It is hard for me to feel bad for someone that allowed their membership to expire almost 5 - 6 months before contacting the SVSC. We are all adults, and where there is a desire, there is a way.

You can ask anyone that has been at board meetings for the past 5 to 6 years and they will tell you that I was never for limiting our membership. However, at this time, this board and I felt that this was the best thing to do for the club as a whole. I FULLY support the changes, and my fellow board members in going this route.

Time will tell if we made the right moves. If we made a poor one, the current membership has the right and power to replace each and everyone of us to make the corrections needed.

Keep in mind, this board has a total of 10 votes, our membership has 2475 votes. We can not make changes like this without the support of the current membership.

Thank you,

Vu Pham
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Old 06-27-2013, 12:47 PM
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Well since this seems directed at ME, let me reply.
First, since the membership total is 2485, and around 400 voted, it's pretty OBVIOUS you didn't do too good a job at "Getting the word out".
Since I didn't get a ballot, I have no idea if it said "if you don't pay, you'll LOSE your membership permanently". DIDN'T get the word. Never heard of the Q&A session either. Whoever came up with the idiotic idea of "1911" members as being a solution to the "problem" of overcrowding is a moron. Did you send surveys out, stating this perceived problem and asking for solutions? didn't get that word either. maybe the SAME 400 out of 2485 that voted heard about it, but not me.
I love this quote-
"It is hard for me to feel bad for someone that allowed their membership to expire almost 5 - 6 months before contacting the SVSC. We are all adults, and where there is a desire, there is a way."
Did ANYONE ask you to FEEL SORRY? didn't think so.
And the dues are EXACTLY the same if paid in January or November. $150.00.
As I EXPLAINED to you in the personal email I sent, I spent the money on a Lifetime NRA membership and wanted to pay my dues later.
But noooo, SVSC is now an "exclusive" club and maybe we will let you become a junior member if you jump through our hoops.
Yeah, that should solve the "problem" that suddenly cropped up when you picked a new GM.
Before I go, I wanted to especially put a shout out to the short gray haired retired guy behind the counter (wish I got his name) that was so sarcastic towards me and laughed in my face when I asked about all this. You're a big reason I ACTIVELY discourage people from going out there.
Good luck with your elite exclusive club.
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Old 06-27-2013, 1:53 PM
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I am a "voting" member of Sac Valley and I understand the anger and frustration felt by many here. While I don't totally agree with some of the changes something had to be done. I have gone there in the recent past and witnessed quite a few careless firearms handling and cease fire violations. Some of this stems from a lot of new gun owners. Probably the worst was right when a pending cease fire was called and gal started walking toward her target on the pistol range. The line was hot!

I wrote a letter to the club and I suggested they issue something like a "Range Safety/Orientation" card to all shooters using the facilities at Sac Valley. And all shooters would have to go through a mandatory range safety orientation to be issued the card and it would be pulled for violations. Those who have cards revoked would have take safety class again to reinstate shooting privileges.

I honestly want to see if the by-law changes actually affects some of the behavior at Sac Valley. Time will tell.
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Old 06-27-2013, 2:13 PM
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I am a "voting" member of Sac Valley and I understand the anger and frustration felt by many here. While I don't totally agree with some of the changes something had to be done. I have gone there in the recent past and witnessed quite a few careless firearms handling and cease fire violations. Some of this stems from a lot of new gun owners. Probably the worst was right when a pending cease fire was called and gal started walking toward her target on the pistol range. The line was hot!

I wrote a letter to the club and I suggested they issue something like a "Range Safety/Orientation" card to all shooters using the facilities at Sac Valley. And all shooters would have to go through a mandatory range safety orientation to be issued the card and it would be pulled for violations. Those who have cards revoked would have take safety class again to reinstate shooting privileges.

I honestly want to see if the by-law changes actually affects some of the behavior at Sac Valley. Time will tell.
But this has little to nothing to do with the changes that were made, the public range is still a public range.

The only thing I see that changed is that I am unable to shoot the ranges I was able to last year. I was there Sunday and Nick was still having to yell at people touching things on the bench when people were down range.

Seems to me someone got pissed off and forgot to reserve a range and couldn't get on one when they wanted.
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Old 06-27-2013, 3:10 PM
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But this has little to nothing to do with the changes that were made, the public range is still a public range.

The only thing I see that changed is that I am unable to shoot the ranges I was able to last year. I was there Sunday and Nick was still having to yell at people touching things on the bench when people were down range.

Seems to me someone got pissed off and forgot to reserve a range and couldn't get on one when they wanted.

The public range is where I see a lot of problems and I don't think they addressed that in changing the by-laws. Like I stated I don't agree with some of the changes. I proposed the range safety card and it went nowhere. Perhaps I should try to push this issue further.

I do think it should be a "privilege" to shoot at Sac Valley and not a place where every yahoo shows up. I want people to take pride in the facilities, the good folk who shoot there and to respect good shooting practices. Just look at Cordova if you want to see the other side of the coin. And no, I'm not an elitist.

And I'm perplexed in the reduction of "allowable" members. Reducing from current level of 2,400+ to 1911 is a loss of over $80K in revenue in dues alone.

As I've recently retired I plan to start making the monthly board meetings.
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  #33  
Old 06-27-2013, 4:01 PM
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All-

I was president for 3 years ahead of Vu. I chaired the committee that made the bylaw recommendations, and I wrote much of the language in the amendments in concert with the committee. It was my motion before the board that got this whole thing rolling. I have deep and very intimate experience with FSC and all the things that lead us to limit its membership.

As president I was responsible for the formal removal of more than one member and nonmember from our club and facility. I worked very hard to get troublemakers chilled out, or if they refused to be adults removed from the property permanently. I can tell you that as our membership increased so did the complaints and issues I had to deal with that were escalated past the range staff. I can also tell you that involvement of club members with a few notable exceptions, was non existent.

We (the board) discussed the changes in open meeting. We voted in open meeting to empanel a committee to recommend changes to the bylaws, including limiting membership. That committee spent about 80 hours in meetings face to face, I spent another 40+ on my own working on the bylaws and the committee suggestions. The recommendations of the committee were presented in open board meeting and accepted. We posted the changes on our main web page, in the range office and on Facebook. We added the notification to the club newsletter that is posted on the web site every month. Members may request a hard copy be mailed if they choose. We don't mail to all every month as those mailings run into the $2k range with production and postage costs.

By January we had some feedback from members that had some specific concerns so we addressed those concerns and posted updated information in all the aforementioned locations. Everyone that had a current membership as of the ballot mailing date got a ballot that also included notification of the changes. Yet only 400 out of over 2000 mailed ballots were returned. We even sent an addressed envelope to return the ballot. Only 400-ish people could be bothered to check a few boxes and lick a stamp. Those that did vote approved the changes, the membership spoke IAW the bylaws and the lows of this state.

It really rots my socks that I spend hundreds of hours volunteering my time, away from my wife and young kids, away from my job, to help FSC run only to hear people that have never even bothered to attend a board meeting or pick up trash at the range complain (I don't know if that is anyone in this thread or not) when they don't take the time to get involved and keep up on what is going on. I can't tell you how many times I had a member complain endlessly about one thing or another, maybe even tell me how to fix it. Never once did that member to get off his or her backside and do something about it themselves, even after I offered him the support of the president to get it done. It's not and never has been just a shooting range to me. It's a club and a cause. It takes personal interest and participation to make a club run. My sons took their first shot at that range. I hope that their kids will too.

I'm sure that there are a couple of guys that got caught up in one thing or another and didn't get dues paid on time. It sucks that happened, as some are really hard working good guys. The other side of that coin is the 2400+ men and women that DID pay on time, that DID know what was going on and DID continue their memberships.

One of the biggest things we will see from limiting memberships, beyond reduced demand and better member experience is actual participation from members and those wishing to become members. I find it impossible to believe that if I can find a way to stay involved with the club to the tune of 100+ hours/year when I have a full time + job, 2 little kids that are in soccer, baseball, school activities, cub scouts etc, run the Jr Smallbore program, sit on the board, participate in SDPS activities and volunteer on their board and work extra on all their matches that others can't make a little time to help as well. There are men that sacrifice far more time than I do, and have done so for many years more than I have been a member. What I have just read is that it's my fault as a board member, that works his tail off for the benefit of this club, its members and the public, that some guys didn't, couldn't or wouldn't take time to pay a bill that was sent months before it was due and payments accepted for months after it was due? Is it also my fault that your water was turned off because you didn't pay your bill for months? Is it the water company's fault? It's my fault that you failed to participate? It's my fault that you failed to get and stay involved with your club? Really? How is it that 2400+ other members figured it out?

Public access is the same as it always has been. If you want to become a non-voting member and shoot the public ranges for a discount come on down. There is nothing stopping you. You don't have to do a dang thing but pay your money and go shoot. If you want to apply for Voting Membership then, and only then, are you required to volunteer time and (gasp!) actually participate in the running of the club. I know it is really unethical to actually expect a little help from members in a not for profit organization.

If guys spent half the effort helping the club and staying involved as they did whining then this problem would not exist.

Change is difficult. I worked damn hard to drag this club into the 21st century and clean up decades of issues. FSC is not 40 some odd guys shooting and bsing at a little range in Folsom anymore. We have 2400+ members and handle thousands of visits a month from members, the public and government agencies. Environmental groups, politicians, and bureaucratic functionaries would love to shut us down and plow the whole thing under. The board and the membership MUST take steps to protect our club and ensure it is still here in 100 years or more. Neither I, nor this board, have lost sight of the importance of our facility and what it means to our rights and our state. We bust our collective butts to make sure it is here for the long run. Limiting membership was a necessary step to control our growth and assure our very survival.

Where were you last year when this change was being discussed? Where were you when I asked for help teaching kids to shoot? Where were you when NSSF put on a public first shots program? Where were you when I invited you to call me personally, on my time, with any questions you had about the club or the bylaw changes? I responded immediately to every single email question I received. Not that there were many as I think I only had questions from less than a dozen members.

If former members want to be angry and rant at someone because they are now former members for whatever reason they need look no further than their bathroom mirror.
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  #34  
Old 06-27-2013, 4:43 PM
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Yep, I was not participating. You got me. My limited time was used in another area that is near and dear to me, being oriented towards my profession. I am glad that you were able to devote so much time to the shooting club. I have found that in EVERY club, there's always a few who do most of the heavy lifting. That being said, your comparison between club dues and utility bills? the utility would give me NOTICE before they shut me off.
You still haven't explained how limiting membership is somehow going to magically cause the rate of volunteering to go up. You will STILL have the same number of people doing most of the work. Just because they paid their dues on time doesn't suddenly make them "active participants".
I have a bathroom mirror, I see someone who works hard and volunteers where he can. And I will continue to rant. Free speech etc.
Enjoy the warm exclusiveness you have created.
I am done with this.
Time for threadlock.
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  #35  
Old 06-27-2013, 4:56 PM
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Originally Posted by wazafuzz View Post
Yep, I was not participating. You got me. My limited time was used in another area that is near and dear to me, being oriented towards my profession. I am glad that you were able to devote so much time to the shooting club. I have found that in EVERY club, there's always a few who do most of the heavy lifting. That being said, your comparison between club dues and utility bills? the utility would give me NOTICE before they shut me off.
You still haven't explained how limiting membership is somehow going to magically cause the rate of volunteering to go up. You will STILL have the same number of people doing most of the work. Just because they paid their dues on time doesn't suddenly make them "active participants".
I have a bathroom mirror, I see someone who works hard and volunteers where he can. And I will continue to rant. Free speech etc.
Enjoy the warm exclusiveness you have created.
I am done with this.
Time for threadlock.
Time for a chill out, bud. Yes we all lead busy lives. Until now I haven't participated much in Sac valley. Now That I'm retired I plan on giving to the club rather than just taking. I hope you have a change of heart.
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Old 06-27-2013, 5:33 PM
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Originally Posted by wazafuzz View Post
Yep, I was not participating. You got me. My limited time was used in another area that is near and dear to me, being oriented towards my profession. I am glad that you were able to devote so much time to the shooting club. I have found that in EVERY club, there's always a few who do most of the heavy lifting. That being said, your comparison between club dues and utility bills? the utility would give me NOTICE before they shut me off.
You still haven't explained how limiting membership is somehow going to magically cause the rate of volunteering to go up. You will STILL have the same number of people doing most of the work. Just because they paid their dues on time doesn't suddenly make them "active participants".
I have a bathroom mirror, I see someone who works hard and volunteers where he can. And I will continue to rant. Free speech etc.
Enjoy the warm exclusiveness you have created.
I am done with this.
Time for threadlock.
I have no dog in this fight but your rant reminded me of this gem of a quote.
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  #37  
Old 06-27-2013, 6:24 PM
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It's always nice when someone with nothing to add drops by naeco81. thanks for playing.
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  #38  
Old 06-27-2013, 10:00 PM
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Time for a chill out, bud. Yes we all lead busy lives. Until now I haven't participated much in Sac valley. Now That I'm retired I plan on giving to the club rather than just taking. I hope you have a change of heart.
Thank you Dave. Hope to see you around the range.

Vu
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Old 07-14-2013, 8:29 AM
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Ordinarily, I would not have posted this, but I wanted similarly situated folks to be aware that there is more than one way to react to the membership rule changes.

I was a member that intended to pay the renewal the first time I got out there in 2013. As with everyone else, I had work, a short stint on active duty out of the area, yada, yada, and found out about the changes when I finally showed up two weeks ago.

Mike took the time to explain the reasons for the decision, which were unfortunate for me, but made sense for the club as a whole. Apparently, it had become impossible to reserve a range on the weekends without at least 6 months of lead time. I chose to become a non-voting member, with the intention of availing myself of the upgrade path when it becomes available.

I allowed my membership to lapse, and I wasn't paying attention to the proposed changes. I am not mad at the full time staff for not taking the time to personally telephone every expired member, since that is not their job. The only person I blame is myself, and I take full responsibility for my own actions.

Also, it was pretty toasty out there during the pre-4th heat wave. Attachment 248943
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Old 07-16-2013, 10:12 AM
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You just need to call or email someone. If you're a longtime member I doubt they would just let you go
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