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Optics, Mounts, Rails and Sights If it aims your firearm, post about it here. |
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#1
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http://www.leupold.com/hunting-shoot...-m1-illum-ret/
I would think so, but I also don't know jack ![]() I searched the forums for this specific model and can't find a trace of it, which makes me think no. Thanks
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#3
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Not sure if this is a joke.
He's looking to buy a $1700 optic and you steer him to Primary Arms? OP, if you're planning on doing precision shooting and willing to go past $1K mark... take a close look at the following -SWFA SS 5-20x50mm HD -Bushnell 3.5-21x50mm HDMR -Used Vortex Razor 5-20x50mm -Used Nightforce 3-15x50mm If you're looking for something that will shoot close range as well as medium range AND pay around $1K or more -SWFA SS 1-6X24mm HD -Vortex Razor 1-6x24mm HD -Nightforce 2.5-10x32mm I do think Leupolds Mk4 line is pretty decent, but for the money, you can get better. What is the intended purpose of your optic anyhow? |
#4
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Med to long range
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#6
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I second this... I'd go Nightforce 2.5-10x32mm... or wait and see what the new Nightforce 2.5-10x42mm is gonna cost. I'm eagerly awaiting that puppy.
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#8
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Wasn't referring to your choice in magnification, was referring to your choice of a $150 toy when the OP was willing to spend $1700.
It's like telling the guy that walks in wanting to buy a Porsche, "Hey bub, just buy yourself a Ford Fiesta and save yourself some money." :P See my reasoning here? |
#9
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$1749.99 for a scope?
![]() I'm sure it's a nice scope...I am just not sure about putting a nice scope like that on an AR15. What happens if you break it and need to replace it at a moment's notice? I put scopes that were literally 1/10 of that price on combat guns and those scopes still managed to do just fine in the areas and conditions I used them. I mean...I wish I had $1800 to spend on just a scope! To each his own, I guess. ![]() --1911ShooterPhil
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"A gun is a tool. No better and no worse than any other tool: an axe, a shovel, or anything. A gun is as good or as bad as the man using it. Remember that." Shane (1953) |
#10
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If you are going to be changing elevation between 200-1,000 yards then you need a quality scope where the turrets and gears will hold true between adjustments.
The Mark 4 is a great scope. For the money I would take a look at the Night Force optics. I was not aware of NF until I dropped into the Angeles range when the 50 BMG club was shooting and NF was one of the more common scope. If you looks at the used market you will see that the scopes do not drop much in price so if you do not like the optic you can get out for a minimal cost. As always - I would suggest that you try to find a group that is doing shooting similar to what you want to build the rifle to accomplish. To to one of that groups shoots and talk to the folks about their gear selection. When you are looking to spend 2k on optics, rings, bases, levels and such, finding folks that already have and can articulate why is a good starting point.
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![]() ![]() “Science is like an inoculation against charlatans who would have you believe whatever it is they tell you.” — Neil deGrasse Tyson |
#11
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#12
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I see people at the range with 14x scope and they are less than 100yds away. I just smile. |
#13
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I guess bottom line, I put all the money I can into a scope first, THEN buy the rifle. ![]() Most rifles can easily be made to shoot sub-moa, but most scopes can not track properly nor do a good job with mirage or resolution. |
#14
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I guess generally speaking, if the guy has no clue about optics, he probably doesn't know how well his gun can shoot, nor can he shoot it as well as it can... course I don't know the OP. I rescind my previous statements, OP go get a Primary Arms 1-6x until you've explained to us what you want to do and how well you can shoot. ![]() On another note, I personally like 2x per 100 yards, but that's me... however when shooting for groups, I want the friggin target to look like its right in front of me. :P |
#15
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There are US federal government, state, and municipal agencies which have contracts for fixed 10x sniper scopes. These scope include the...
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"A gun is a tool. No better and no worse than any other tool: an axe, a shovel, or anything. A gun is as good or as bad as the man using it. Remember that." Shane (1953) |
#16
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Yea, that's way to much. Irons out to 600 for me. After that I need a little help. I use an 8-32X NXS on my AR to reach out to 1000 yards.
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NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun and Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor California DOJ Certified Fingerprint Roller Ventura County approved CCW Instructor Offering low cost private basic shooting and reloading classes for calgunners. ![]() |
#17
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![]() --1911ShooterPhil
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"A gun is a tool. No better and no worse than any other tool: an axe, a shovel, or anything. A gun is as good or as bad as the man using it. Remember that." Shane (1953) |
#18
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The $1800 optic will be 1000% more reliable then your $180 optic. So the need to be able to have a spare in the field is almost negligible. That being said no scope is perfect. I have seen everything go down NF S&B USO you name it. If you are in a die hard position where you need a back up scope quick then you would not want to rely on a $180 scope anyways. Most of the high end scope makers have Lifetime warranties on all there scopes. CS is usually great as well. |
#19
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If your heart's set on a Leupold check out these links:
http://www.samplelist.com/Leupold-45...-B-P62991.aspx http://www.samplelist.com/Leupold-45...-B-P63097.aspx
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"Fish to Live, Live to Hunt" ![]() |
#20
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Why of WHY did Nightforce not make the ATACR FFP?! Ooops... ![]() |
#21
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My initial interest was because I thought I could get a good deal on one. I looked in the forum and didn't see where anyone had used one on an AR15, which is why I asked.
This scope and brand in particular is heavily counter-fitted by China. Just check ebay, or google the model. I suspect that's what I was about to walk into. Thanks for all the good comments and opinions.
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#23
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I can't even see a 12" target clear enough at 300 yards let alone 600... If you want a scope that will track well and hold zero, get the Bushnell G2HDMR. It's all the range for the California Precision Rifle Club. When buying a scope you want a good reticle, decent glass, reliable zero and tracking. Last edited by Justintoxicated; 04-30-2013 at 2:33 PM.. |
#24
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See...I put a Weaver Classic K 4x38 on a DPMS carbine and Bushnell 3200 10x40 MilDot on a DPMS rifle. I need magnification and steer away from red dots most of the time (my eyesight isn't great). Those weapons & optics were used on security contracts (mainly CONUS, and elsewhere) and for training purposes (just CONUS). They mostly sat around in Pelican cases, but sometimes they got used during walkabouts and for deterrence & defense purposes. If the optics broke, they could easily be replaced. None of the folks my buddies and I did work would pay for optics & accessories, so it came out of our own checks. At the time, I couldn't afford high end optics, so I went with what I could get via catalog, special order, etc. The Bushnell had a MilDot reticle. The Weaver Classic K was simply a poor man's ACOG (but, with a standard hunting reticle). They both held up okay (until they got banged & scratched up too much, then, they got replaced). Also, take into consideration...when I was doing that type of work, that was around 2005-2009 and thereabouts. Now, sadly, I'm just a desk jockey. All those new, "tactical" scopes and all those other cool gadgets weren't as plentiful and inexpensive as they are today. I had to deal with that I could get my hands on with short notice. I mean, if your dept./agency/unit/etc. is willing to pay $1800 for a scope, okay, that's awesome...but me, as an individual, even me as a security professional...I cannot justify that type of money when I can use it for other stuff (comm. gear/medical supplies/personal electronics/tactical nylon/etc.), you know? That's just my opinion. I know the precision shooters and long range competitors out there will want better toys...and that's totally fine...but other people have other needs. Some see scopes as tools, nothing more, and tools are meant to be used and abused. Just my $0.02, that's all. --1911ShooterPhil
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"A gun is a tool. No better and no worse than any other tool: an axe, a shovel, or anything. A gun is as good or as bad as the man using it. Remember that." Shane (1953) Last edited by 1911ShooterPhil; 04-30-2013 at 3:06 PM.. Reason: Just my $0.02, that's all... |
#25
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Last time I was shooting at 100 yards with my scoped ar I saw some people sorta smiling heard some comments about how much better their red dots were, cause that's what the military likes to use. When we grabbed our target all my shots were touching and there group was all over the 12" target... Then they wanted to know how I got my rifle so accurate. The thing is, I'm not military I'm shooting off a bench at the range... I can only get so accurate with iron sights, even at 100 yards, so I can't fully test the rounds I have loaded for accuracy. It's hard to tell whart .2gr of powder difference is doing with irons, unless maybe you have a rest, but even then I like to see better. I'm still learning but in order to continue to improve I need more range time, and I need to be able to see what I am doing in more detail. Last edited by Justintoxicated; 04-30-2013 at 3:09 PM.. |
#26
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#27
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I would not hesitate either. Quality glass is quality glass. I like quality as much as the next guy; but, sometimes there are other considerations: budget, availability (time), shipping, etc. If I could afford better optics and accessories for my weapons, I would...but, as a consultant/contractor on a budget...I make do and I get by well enough. I have learned to improvise, adapt, and overcome. I wish I had that type of money for just a scope. The Leupold Mark 4 LR/T 4.5-14x50mm is a nice scope with plenty of awesome features. Sadly, it's just not in my budget. I hope the OP is able to make use of that awesome piece of kit, though. --1911ShooterPhil
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"A gun is a tool. No better and no worse than any other tool: an axe, a shovel, or anything. A gun is as good or as bad as the man using it. Remember that." Shane (1953) Last edited by 1911ShooterPhil; 04-30-2013 at 10:27 PM.. Reason: Quality is quality... |
#28
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#29
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I'd only suggest Primary Arms to someone who was otherwise going to buy NC Star or Barska...
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“Political tags — such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth — are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.” — Robert A. Heinlein “It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds” — Samuel Adams |
#30
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Check out the video and read the reviews from real shooters. PM sent your invited to our proving grounds. Your welcome to shoot it. Dimitri
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www.primaryarms.com Last edited by PrimaryArms; 05-01-2013 at 5:52 AM.. |
#31
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Where are your proving grounds Dimitri? Just curious if you're also going to throw in some plane tickets and a hotel for him to try out a $150 optic.
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#32
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That eliminates every acog.... So no I don't agree. As for PA, they show Cali no love with rebuilds and will never see a penny from me, they can keep their Chinese made wannabe optics.
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NRA Lifetime Member If you buy a gun from me and fail to pass background, I will keep at least 50% of the sale price to compensate me for the time you've wasted of mine (sale and failed sale pickup), so if you're in doubt, don't buy my guns. |
#33
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I'll look into this as schedule permits.
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“Political tags — such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth — are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.” — Robert A. Heinlein “It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds” — Samuel Adams |
#34
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1000 palms Garner valley Souther California Everyone with gun safety is welcome to shoot it. "No flagging" Dimitri
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www.primaryarms.com Last edited by PrimaryArms; 05-02-2013 at 6:29 PM.. |
#35
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LOL Dimitri, I had no idea you were in CA, and pretty close to me. I always thought you were far far away. In that case, you're offer is quite respectful and generous and I retract any statement of sarcasm I had made earlier.
![]() One of these days I will have to take you up on that. |
#36
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The ACSS is a different animal. We went to extreme measures assuring the BDC,ranging,leads and wind are dead on! PM me when you want to shoot it. We normally start at 600-700-800 I shot this with M193 16" upper 5 rounds @600 ![]() ![]() 2-3 mph wind M193 600-700 yards ![]() 5.45 out of a Siaga with 6x 10-12 mph wind! Guys with Ak74 and 7n6 its on!! Retired Recon Marine with UDT's to prove it lol shooting Prism version soon to be out He did this at 600 using M855 5-5 rounds ![]() ![]() Active Navy And pic cropped upon request. 15 rounds M855 at 600 yards 10 hits 5-7mph first group wind took it! 6x ![]() ![]() X Army ![]() ![]() 600 yards In 10-15 mph wind! Dimitri
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www.primaryarms.com Last edited by PrimaryArms; 05-03-2013 at 4:56 PM.. |
#37
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I can't even get my head around that concept. 300m targets in Army basic training were completely covered by the front sight post. I had perfect vision and I had a hell of a time lining those farthest targets up. How does one see anything clearly at 600 yards, much less put accurate fire onto it?
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#38
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Thats 545 yards. For me I almost lollypop the target and have it on top of post then right on it. But I hear you its very hard to do. Todays Army Marines use Acogs to qualify and complain about wind lol. Its why we added the wind dots they are a must in windy conditions. Dimitri
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www.primaryarms.com |
#39
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OP, its all about what your needs are and what you're comfortable with. Some shooters like a low range variable when others will want medium variable range, etc. That being said, everyone is different. I have shot irons out to 400m on an AR. I can certainly do it, but I prefer the magnification now. Fundementals have been learned and practiced over years, so I prefer the optics now. At 400 yards, I like a scope up to about 10x. Right now I have a Nikon M223 3-12x42 on a AR platform and have no problem walking it out to 600-650 yards. Ive sat a a bench and shot after shot rang a 10'' plate at 600 with it. BUT, thats me and what I am comfortable with and with that platform, thats acceptable to me.
Airgun shooters need a precision scope at 33 feet...and you alot of them sport a Leupold EFR 6.5-20x. This is a $700 scope on an airgun. These guys are intense about it though. and at 33 feet, they can shoot keno card numbers out without touching the lines. They are that good. If you think thats not hard...try it. These guys like the higher and need the higher magnifcation and when they will pay for the most dependable and repeatable turrets. GAP makes the GAP 10 308 AR. I think they guarantee it to about 5/8'' moa? $2500-$300 AR rifle. I dont own one, but if I did I know I'd be the weak link in the setup...meaning, I have a 5/8 MOA gun I want a repeatable scope, duarable scope, and great glass and lens coating quality. I want to know every time I click that turret its exactly that .1 Mil/1/4 MOA/etc...the glass to be perfect. I want to know if I was every off, it would be my human error. So, it would be a NXS/PR/S&B/etc. But, thats what I would choose if I ever save up the money for that kind of money before blowing it.... ![]() Sorry for the long wind response. Point being, make sure you know the criteria of what you like and want. We all can tell you what works for us, but dont take that as law...sum it all up and use it a resources. When I speak to a customer on the phone, I get every feature they like, I want all the criteria that appeals to them, to best find options that meet what will work and what is comfortable to them. Magnification, objective size, reticle, style of shooting, type of shooting, SF/AO, turret click, internal adjustment range, distance shooting, etc. There are a lot of choices out there and its not difficult to choose a few that really fit what YOU like, need, and want.
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CalGunners: Take 5% off your order of $50 or more at OpticsPlanet by using coupon code CALGUNS! Some exclusions apply. OpticsPlanet http://www.opticsplanet.com Toll-Free (888) 504-7864 Send us a private message if we can be of help! |
#40
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![]() We confirmed all the specs are true mathematically and at the range. This chart has orange stickies representing moa at 100 yards converted to inches as you see its dead on! We are consistently hitting targets at 600-700-800 yards with no adjustments just a 100 zero and wind hold overs. Here is some video of us shooting it http://youtu.be/nxwaiDeXP8c Dimitri
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www.primaryarms.com Last edited by PrimaryArms; 05-06-2013 at 11:14 PM.. |
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