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  #1  
Old 04-25-2013, 4:18 PM
prometa prometa is offline
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Default lack of Bay Area Appleseeds--causes?

Long story short, I notice a whole bunch of LA-area Appleseed events at multiple locations around, but see only Metcalf and Chabot in the Bay Area. There are two in June up here, and then two in August.

If the organizers don't might me asking, what's the reason for this? Lack of available instructors? Lack of ranges with 25yd rifle lanes? Lack of friendly ranges?

Is there anything I can do to help to bring more of them up here? I'm certainly not going to be instructing them any time soon, and don't own my own range, but would be happy to start/sign a petition or send a few emails if there is a way to help.
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  #2  
Old 04-25-2013, 4:41 PM
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I'm wondering as well. The three events coming up in San Jose are one Ladyseed and two KD events (long distance, experienced only). So Chabot is my only shot with 4 events.
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Old 04-25-2013, 5:38 PM
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I don't have any kind of inside information but I've shot a couple over a couple of year period so here's what I know.

It's been a process. A couple of years ago there weren't any local instructors - people drove up from LA to do it. Eventually we got our own local shoot boss (PurplePeople on the forum here) and he started training up minions and they just promoted somebody to shoot boss the other day. So that whole process seems to be fairly far along but they literally just got to the point where he could hand off another range to somebody.

In terms of ranges they were originally just at Chabot and then they started booking a couple of weekends at San Jose and they just managed to grab a couple of single days left in their schedule so they did which is why one day events just went up for August and... whenever the other one is.

I know there are all kinds of practical problems with expanding into more ranges for any organization. Any decent range pretty much has its weekends booked way way in advance. And the ones that don't are probably super picky about who they rent to.

I suspect they won't announce what ranges they're working on until they have things signed and sealed. And given the way ranges set their schedules even if they got regular things going at another range in 2014 I bet they wouldn't know until fairly late in the year, but perhaps I'm mistaken.

Any insiders know if that's all basically on target?
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Old 04-26-2013, 1:03 AM
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Eljay - Thanks for the info. I would love to attend one of these in San Jose when it happens. Guess I've been waiting since I've joined CGN.

If there's a petition or something let us know so we can sign up. I guess I'm at the mercy of a hotel room around Chabot until then. (the gas $$ to come home every night would kill the deal IMO and the hotel room would prob kill me too as it's a 2 day deal)
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  #5  
Old 04-26-2013, 7:52 AM
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Eljay's pretty much on target. We've got a reasonable instructor cadre finally built up, so we don't have to bring in folks from SoCal. The issue now is time slots on suitable ranges. Given the shortage of ranges in the Bay Area, no one's going to shut one down for a weekend for us, so there has to be a separate 25 meter+ range we can use and RSO to our own needs. That cuts the options down quite a bit - then we get to compete with others who also want that spot.

Chabot has been an excellent host, but we are unlikely to get any more whole weekend slots there. We are using Metcalf for 'special' shoots, since it is a 200 yd range, and takes only half as many shooters on the line as Chabot.

We are definitely looking for more ranges, and have one other in prospect. Eljay's right that we aren't going to talk until it's a done deal. We would appreciate knowing about any other opportunities - post or contact me via PM. "Did you know about range X?" is not useful - by now we know about them all. What we need are inside contacts that will help us get moved up the priority list on ranges that are set up appropriately.
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Old 04-26-2013, 7:52 AM
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edit: PurplePeople made most of this post redundant with simultaneous posting, except I also mentioned that San Jose shoots have to start and end really early due to range rules. I had to get up at 5:00am to get there but was back for dinner. All these ranges have their quirks in addition to location...

Last edited by Eljay; 04-26-2013 at 7:56 AM..
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Old 04-26-2013, 9:07 AM
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Thanks for the inside story. I wish I could be more helpful--guess I need to work on my patch and then my first colored hat!
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Old 04-26-2013, 9:33 AM
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The big thing is just to sign up now for the June course so you're committed. Then you'll have to do whatever it is you have to do to make it happen (suitable rifle, ammo, etc.)

After that making rifleman isn't that big of a deal... if you take what you learned and practice a bit and repeat the course before you've forgotten all of it. You can do a lot of it in dry fire - figure out how to do the transitions and reloads and shift your point of aim quickly enough that the timed stages aren't any big deal, and then in live fire you're mostly just getting used to the recoil and testing yourself a bit. Do that and you'll hit rifleman sooner rather than later. Rifleman + 2nd Appleseed weekend = instructor in training eligible.
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  #9  
Old 04-26-2013, 9:50 AM
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For what it's worth, there was a time that there were no Appleseeds in the Bay Area. I had to go to Fresno to take my first one. One of the Chabot range safety officers attended one elsewhere, was impressed, and then it was much easier for Appleseed to reserve a weekend training. The Bay Area is smaller than LA. I think the worse case scenario is that someone would have to drive 45 minutes to attend one, which isn't that bad.
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Old 04-26-2013, 10:31 AM
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Yeah, Curtis. Nice guy.
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  #11  
Old 06-19-2013, 3:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onegtalon View Post
Eljay - Thanks for the info. I would love to attend one of these in San Jose when it happens. Guess I've been waiting since I've joined CGN.

If there's a petition or something let us know so we can sign up. I guess I'm at the mercy of a hotel room around Chabot until then. (the gas $$ to come home every night would kill the deal IMO and the hotel room would prob kill me too as it's a 2 day deal)
Hey, if you plan properly, you know there is a camp site right near the range, right? I've stayed there before. So weird that it's right in the middle of civilization.
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Old 09-10-2013, 9:01 AM
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Old 09-15-2013, 5:22 PM
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Ya know... if a bunch of y'all Bay Area folks got organized, you could carpool down to Piru this coming weekend, and camp out on the range. Gas split four ways won't hurt too much, and camping is free!

Also, Piru is a LOT quieter than Chabot... jus' sayin'!
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Old 09-16-2013, 7:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gratefuldog View Post
Ya know... if a bunch of y'all Bay Area folks got organized, you could carpool down to Piru this coming weekend, and camp out on the range. Gas split four ways won't hurt too much, and camping is free!

Also, Piru is a LOT quieter than Chabot... jus' sayin'!
We also have room at Sacramento this weekend!

http://www.eventbrite.com/event/5084798770
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Old 09-16-2013, 8:02 AM
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Wow... $80 for both days plus range fees. What may I ask does this cost offset?
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for paying my fair share and promoting the sport. I've never attended but hear good things about AS. -g
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Old 09-16-2013, 8:29 AM
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I think range rental and insurance are probably their largest costs.
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Old 09-16-2013, 9:01 PM
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Well, there's range rental and insurance...
Keeping the website running and web merchant costs...
Printing targets and handouts...
Reimbursing instructors for travel costs (those who don't donate them)...
Accounting and legal costs...

... and on top of that, about half of our students attend at discount rates (i.e., family discounts, active military or LEO, etc.).

It adds up. The RWVA is a 501(c)3 organization and its books are public if you really want to know. We shoot for sustainability. The Association is breaking even, but does so on the backs of donations, both from instructors and from benefactors.

Personally, if you can find a full weekend of instruction at this quality for less than $80, go there. Better yet, let me know because I'd like to hear about it and find out how they do it. We're always looking for ways to improve.
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  #18  
Old 11-01-2013, 1:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PurplePeople View Post
Chabot has been an excellent host, but we are unlikely to get any more whole weekend slots there.
So the December Appleseed will be it?

I ask as I don't see anything planned for 2014.
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Old 11-01-2013, 1:32 PM
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That's normal. Last couple of years they've done even numbered months but they don't post the date until the contracts are all locked in at Chabot. Might be a couple of weeks until the new year even, who knows.
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Old 11-01-2013, 8:50 PM
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There's going to be tons. Because of the way our ticket system works we can't enter 2014 dates until we're just about done with 2013. Don't worry.
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  #21  
Old 11-01-2013, 9:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mumbles View Post
So the December Appleseed will be it?

I ask as I don't see anything planned for 2014.
Nope, we'll be on the 3rd weekend of even numbered months, same as always. Just gotta get them on the web site schedule. We'll also be shooting long distance at San Jose 'Metcalf' range on any 5th weekends or Saturdays. Those are 'previous Appleseeder only' events.
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  #22  
Old 11-13-2013, 2:39 PM
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The 2014 Castro Valley events are now on the schedule. San Jose coming soon.
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  #23  
Old 02-19-2014, 7:51 PM
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Thanks again Rocketman for your help in the rimfire forum.

Are there plans for a standard Appleseed event at Metcalf in San Jose? Looking at the schedule, the events are listed as KD.

Thanks!
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Old 02-19-2014, 8:01 PM
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Since Metcalf is the only 200 yd range we have access to in the Bay Area, we are dedicating that to the known distance shoots. We use the larger (but shorter) range up at Castro Valley for the regular events.
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Old 02-21-2014, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by as_rocketman View Post
Well, there's range rental and insurance...
Keeping the website running and web merchant costs...
Printing targets and handouts...
Reimbursing instructors for travel costs (those who don't donate them)...
Accounting and legal costs...

... and on top of that, about half of our students attend at discount rates (i.e., family discounts, active military or LEO, etc.).

It adds up. The RWVA is a 501(c)3 organization and its books are public if you really want to know. We shoot for sustainability. The Association is breaking even, but does so on the backs of donations, both from instructors and from benefactors.

Personally, if you can find a full weekend of instruction at this quality for less than $80, go there. Better yet, let me know because I'd like to hear about it and find out how they do it. We're always looking for ways to improve.
I have to highlight this last statement. At $80 Appleseed is an outstanding bargain for the level of training and enthusiasm of the instructors. I got more out of it than some tactical carbine classes I've taken that cost 2-3x as much.
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