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  #1  
Old 04-16-2013, 7:39 AM
haihaiguy haihaiguy is offline
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Default Private Party Transfer Definition Question

Hi all,

We all recognize and accept the private party transfer definition as this:

A private party transfer is defined as a transfer where BOTH the buyer AND the seller are in the physical presence of the transferring FFL (that means they physically came in to the store), and BOTH are California residents, and both have valid California identification. If any other criteria are present, the transfer is by default a dealer transfer, not a private party transfer, and is therefore subject to the rules and fees of a dealer transfer. I found this on a non-CA DOJ web site.

The question is where is this actually written? I went through all the penal codes related and I cannot find the actual text stating the above. Can someone show me?

Thanks in advance.

Frank.
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  #2  
Old 04-16-2013, 8:30 AM
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Quiet Quiet is offline
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It comes from CA Penal Codes [PC 28050-28070], CA Code of Regulations [11 CCR 4030-4045] and the CA DROS software.
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Old 04-16-2013, 4:45 PM
haihaiguy haihaiguy is offline
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Thanks Quiet –

Not trying to be difficult but I went through all these codes and still I cannot find where it states that both buyer and seller must be physically present. I don’t have access to the DROS software so it might state it there.
Am I missing it?
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  #4  
Old 04-16-2013, 6:33 PM
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Librarian Librarian is offline
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by haihaiguy View Post
Thanks Quiet –

Not trying to be difficult but I went through all these codes and still I cannot find where it states that both buyer and seller must be physically present. I don’t have access to the DROS software so it might state it there.
Am I missing it?
Yes.

Quote:
28050.

(a) A person shall complete any sale, loan, or transfer of a firearm through a person licensed pursuant to Sections 26700 to 26915, inclusive, in accordance with this chapter in order to comply with Section 27545.

(b) The seller or transferor or the person loaning the firearm shall deliver the firearm to the dealer who shall retain possession of that firearm.

(c) The dealer shall then deliver the firearm to the purchaser or transferee or the person being loaned the firearm, if it is not prohibited, in accordance with Section 27540.
"The dealer", not 'a dealer'.

(b) says the seller must take the gun to an FFL, and that FFL must hang on to it.

(c) says that same FFL is the one who delivers to the buyer, after the appropriate waiting period and other things imposed on FFLs.

This part -
Quote:
BOTH are California residents, and both have valid California identification.
is a matter of how the DROS software is implemented. Easy for handguns - CA law requires proof of residency from the buyer. But DROS software wants to read the CA DL or ID magstripe from both buyer and seller.

Don't have to be present at the same time, but each must use the same dealer, and only one dealer per transaction.

Now, 'shall deliver' doesn't require physical presence - shipping the gun inside CA to an FFL near the buyer is entirely legal - but if I recall the anecdotes correctly, DOJ is advising that doesn't qualify as a PPT.
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Last edited by Librarian; 04-16-2013 at 6:45 PM..
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  #5  
Old 04-16-2013, 7:50 PM
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As a seller is there any thing I should file with DOJ once the firearms is transferred out to FFL. how do I cover any liabilities on the sellers end.
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Old 04-16-2013, 9:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by armenjs802 View Post
As a seller is there any thing I should file with DOJ once the firearms is transferred out to FFL. how do I cover any liabilities on the sellers end.
No.
Everything gets handled during the PPT by the CA FFL dealer.
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Old 04-17-2013, 7:43 AM
haihaiguy haihaiguy is offline
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Lightbulb

Thanks for the explanation Librarian, as it makes sense but you really answered the question with this:

Now, 'shall deliver' doesn't require physical presence - shipping the gun inside CA to an FFL near the buyer is entirely legal - but if I recall the anecdotes correctly, DOJ is advising that doesn't qualify as a PPT.

This all started because I wanted to do a PPT within California but wanted to ship. So technically not illegal but the DOJ frowns on it. It would be nice if they actually stated it somewhere.

Thanks for all replies.
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  #8  
Old 04-17-2013, 8:03 AM
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The FFL needs to swipe the seller's ID and also get the seller to sign the DROS, not to mention see the seller's ID, none of which can be done if the seller is not there.
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  #9  
Old 04-17-2013, 12:52 PM
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This information is most helpful since i am about to buy from a private party in Northern California and I live in Southern California. However, I have a follow up question: if I personally appear at the FFL selected by the seller to initiate the transaction, do I have to show up personally as well to pick up the gun after the expiration of the 10 day waiting period, or can the FFL ship it to me or a FFL in my area? I know it might be a dum question, but I am new to it, and your help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you very much.
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  #10  
Old 04-17-2013, 1:23 PM
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You have to go back to pick up the firearm, it can not be shipped as you have to sign the 4473 again.

You could have the seller come to your area so that you don't have to go twice.
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  #11  
Old 04-17-2013, 2:36 PM
Cyril Cyril is offline
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I was afraid of that. But that certainly answers my question. Thank you again for taking the time to respond to my inquiry. Cyril.
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