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Survival and Preparations Long and short term survival and 'prepping'.

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  #241  
Old 08-17-2013, 7:45 AM
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Uptrend in PM's is due to the Fed's projection of tapering bond purchases and rising interest rates.
Yes...I see PM's rising now through the fmd if the year.
Silver might hit $25 and Gold might hit $1,500.
I've been playing and getting burned with VIX options lately.
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  #242  
Old 08-17-2013, 7:55 AM
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In that 1st link it mentions gold mine stock going up exponentially if prices rise. Funny thing is Soros dumped GLD stock and bought MINE stock. He must know something. Im buying!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidR310 View Post
Sorry for not citing sources, my mind is failing me in my old age as I approach 35 lol.

Eric Sprott

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe...ticle13765335/

http://ericsprott.blogspot.com/

I like to listen to the podcast on http://allamericangold.com/radio.html
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  #243  
Old 08-17-2013, 10:06 AM
Ripon83 Ripon83 is offline
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Default Soros

If you think Soro's is doing something I would suggest (and I think you know) that he's already done it. He is a "king" and "master" at press releasing what he "DID" not what he's doing. Often such a move enables him to make vast profits.

Look at the guy who bought into Apple.com this week. His mere announcement that he "bought" drove the stock nearly $40 a share. I'll bet he had 2-3 millin shares - nice just for a press release don't you think?

I buy stocks based on a companies values, fundamentals and avoid the hype like the plague. Though I'll admit I bought Fannie Mae at .55 a share and sold a bunch at 4.25 - my best gain a decade I think.


Quote:
Originally Posted by problemchild View Post
In that 1st link it mentions gold mine stock going up exponentially if prices rise. Funny thing is Soros dumped GLD stock and bought MINE stock. He must know something. Im buying!
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  #244  
Old 08-17-2013, 3:34 PM
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Fools listen to the news and the crap they report.

I watch what the STRING PULLERS do not what they say. You can download a pdf with SOROS day to day purchases and sales and see what he spends billions on every day when it happens.

http://www.gurufocus.com/membership/...pdf&gurupdf=16


http://www.gurufocus.com/news/226239...-and-herbalife

His portfolio is 40% ETF's
http://www.gurufocus.com/holdings.ph...e=George+Soros








Quote:
Originally Posted by Ripon83 View Post
If you think Soro's is doing something I would suggest (and I think you know) that he's already done it. He is a "king" and "master" at press releasing what he "DID" not what he's doing. Often such a move enables him to make vast profits.

Look at the guy who bought into Apple.com this week. His mere announcement that he "bought" drove the stock nearly $40 a share. I'll bet he had 2-3 millin shares - nice just for a press release don't you think?

I buy stocks based on a companies values, fundamentals and avoid the hype like the plague. Though I'll admit I bought Fannie Mae at .55 a share and sold a bunch at 4.25 - my best gain a decade I think.

Last edited by problemchild; 08-17-2013 at 3:49 PM..
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  #245  
Old 08-17-2013, 4:37 PM
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Well I'd trust "gurufocus" like I would stock and PM advise on a public anonymous forum.
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  #246  
Old 08-20-2013, 2:58 PM
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Default Mid to late sept

It is my opinion that both gold and silver will finally hit there bottoms in late Sept with gold reaching around 1,100 and sliver sub $18.Then it wil be "off to the races". What do I base this on? Its to much to explain so lets just watch things play out and whether I am right or wrong in my assumption feel free to call me out on it when the time comes.
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  #247  
Old 08-20-2013, 7:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2112 View Post
It is my opinion that both gold and silver will finally hit there bottoms in late Sept with gold reaching around 1,100 and sliver sub $18.Then it wil be "off to the races". What do I base this on? Its to much to explain so lets just watch things play out and whether I am right or wrong in my assumption feel free to call me out on it when the time comes.

I disagree based on what others said that we are already on the rise.

Gold already dipped below the $1200 mark and silver hit $18.


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  #248  
Old 08-21-2013, 8:43 PM
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So you guys which has better liquidity in the market gold or silver? If I were to go buy X amount of gold or silver and I run into a personal emergency where I require immediate funds, would gold be a better option than silver?
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  #249  
Old 08-21-2013, 8:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by syferstream View Post
So you guys which has better liquidity in the market gold or silver? If I were to go buy X amount of gold or silver and I run into a personal emergency where I require immediate funds, would gold be a better option than silver?

It is recommended that you have 3 months of cash in savings to avoid having to do things like that. Try to hold PMs for the long haul.
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  #250  
Old 08-22-2013, 5:24 AM
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I own both gold and silver now as of three weeks ago, before it was just your normal stash of Sterling, some old junk coins, rounds and jewelry.

To me it looked like silver wanted to retreat some this last week but has been able to continue it's strength following a nice base in the metals created after the extreme fall. Love to see silver close and hold above $24.40 or so for it's next leg up.

Major pullbacks will be buying ops for me and if that doesn't happen I will continue a plan to stash more on a regular basis. Fiat is dead, sure as shootin.

I had a buddy 15 years ago who would spray paint his 100 oz. bars black and use them as door stops for security. Today I believe one should bury the stuff and forget about it, tell only a trusted family member it's location. Do like the pirates did.....shiver me timbers !
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Last edited by sixoclockhold; 08-22-2013 at 5:27 AM..
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  #251  
Old 08-22-2013, 5:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by syferstream View Post
So you guys which has better liquidity in the market gold or silver? If I were to go buy X amount of gold or silver and I run into a personal emergency where I require immediate funds, would gold be a better option than silver?
Any reputable dealer will buy your metal instantly for cash, silver or gold. That's their job, don't worry about how they make money, they do or they wouldn't be in business.

Buy low sell high, getting scared out of physical is a suckers play. Metal are volatile especially silver. Don't play if you can't stand a hot kitchen, it's the nature of this beast.
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  #252  
Old 08-22-2013, 9:24 AM
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Apples and cow patties......

It takes more labor to bake a loaf of bread than pan for gold. Is bread worth 1400/oz?

Bread:
1.) Last years harvest save seeds for next year.
2.) Plow and till field manually
3.) Plant seeds
4.) Water seeds till they grow
5.) Weed and protect new growing seeds
6.) Water field
7.) Keep pests and critters from eating crop
8.) Water field
9.) Repeat 4-8 for several months
10.) Harvest wheat
11.) Separate wheat
12.) Crush wheat
13.) Mix wheat into dough with water brought from river
14.) Make stone oven with rocks carried from river bank.
15.) Cut trees for fire for oven.
16.) Bake bread in oven
17.) Eat bread that took 5 months to make

Quote:
Originally Posted by DRH View Post
When people refer to fiat currency they are referring to an item that has value by "decree". The Government states that these pieces of paper have value and as long as the confidence in that decree is there, the paper dollars circulate as currency. It takes 11 cents of labor to produce a $100 bill and almost no labor to make the keystrokes to produce mega dollars via fractional lending.

Gold however takes labor and sweat to produce. It can not be produced without that labor and it definitely can not be produce by decree. Therefore by its very nature it is a store of labor that retains value (true money with a 4,000 year old track record). Once you have labored to pan or mine for gold you will understand how much labor goes into one ounce.
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  #253  
Old 08-22-2013, 10:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by problemchild View Post
Apples and cow patties......

It takes more labor to bake a loaf of bread than pan for gold. Is bread worth 1400/oz?

Bread:
1.) Last years harvest save seeds for next year.
2.) Plow and till field manually
3.) Plant seeds
4.) Water seeds till they grow
5.) Weed and protect new growing seeds
6.) Water field
7.) Keep pests and critters from eating crop
8.) Water field
9.) Repeat 4-8 for several months
10.) Harvest wheat
11.) Separate wheat
12.) Crush wheat
13.) Mix wheat into dough with water brought from river
14.) Make stone oven with rocks carried from river bank.
15.) Cut trees for fire for oven.
16.) Bake bread in oven
17.) Eat bread that took 5 months to make
You are validating the opposite point of view better than your own. If you think that no one can alter the "value" of a loaf of bread, you are kidding yourself. Leave a loaf of bread out for two weeks, tell me what is worth then? How's all that sweat labor keeping its "value" in that bread? If you could go out and plant a gold farm, there would be more of those than wheat fields you speak of. Steps 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, all are done with little effort (labor) by farm tractors, crop dusters, processing machines etc., which were all purchased with any form of payment other than the bread or product produced by that field. I dont need to mention the property tax shelter a farm provides, the cost of farm diesel, or goverments paying farmers to plow their crop under to control the cost of goods. Now to compare the amount it takes to extract gold, the earth moving equipment, the processing machines, the time, and the fact that there is a finite amount of this element on this planet, and you cant grow more...
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  #254  
Old 08-22-2013, 10:41 AM
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Actually not........

I can go to almost any stream and get 2 dollars worth of gold in a few minutes with a simple pan if you live in the correct region. Its a lot less effort to pan gold than grow wheat and bake bread. You said gold had value because it was hard to get. I said it was fiat currency because some old dudes got together and claimed it was a substitute for labor. Back in the day spices were as expensive as gold, now look at them.

Bottom line is GOLD is FIAT currency. Only sweat labor is money. Without sweat labor you have NO gold or anything else.







Quote:
Originally Posted by Reconsnake View Post
You are validating the opposite point of view better than your own. If you think that no one can alter the "value" of a loaf of bread, you are kidding yourself. Leave a loaf of bread out for two weeks, tell me what is worth then? How's all that sweat labor keeping its "value" in that bread? If you could go out and plant a gold farm, there would be more of those than wheat fields you speak of. Steps 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, all are done with little effort (labor) by farm tractors, crop dusters, processing machines etc., which were all purchased with any form of payment other than the bread or product produced by that field. I dont need to mention the property tax shelter a farm provides, the cost of farm diesel, or goverments paying farmers to plow their crop under to control the cost of goods. Now to compare the amount it takes to extract gold, the earth moving equipment, the processing machines, the time, and the fact that there is a finite amount of this element on this planet, and you cant grow more...
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  #255  
Old 08-22-2013, 2:03 PM
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We also need to look at scarcity. Everyone has a labor factor, not everyone owns their share of the earths riches in .75 ounces of Gold or 4.5 ounces of Silver.

Lets see, 1 tonne of Gold or 1 tonne of fresh bread? Tough choice.
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  #256  
Old 08-22-2013, 5:59 PM
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"A currency is whatever is accepted as a medium of exchange. It can be paper money, gold or wheat berries (which have been found with mummies 2000 years old). For it to be accepted, the recipient has to be assured that it has the desired value for the good being exchanged. For paper money, that comes from the imprimatur of the issuing government.
That is just as true for gold. It is only the backing of governments that gives gold any value."--Nasdaq writer






Quote:
Originally Posted by DRH View Post
You may not believe that gold has intrinsic value (you would not be alone, but part of a very small group), however your statement that it is fiat is incorrect. Here are some definitions to help:

From Investopedia:
Definition of 'Fiat Money'
Currency that a government has declared to be legal tender, despite the fact that it has no intrinsic value and is not backed by reserves. Historically, most currencies were based on physical commodities such as gold or silver, but fiat money is based solely on faith.


From Wikipedia:
The term fiat money has been defined variously as:
any money declared by a government to be legal tender.
state-issued money which is neither convertible by law to any other thing, nor fixed in value in terms of any objective standard.
money without intrinsic value.
While gold- or silver-backed representative money entails the legal requirement that the bank of issue redeem it in fixed weights of gold or silver, fiat money's value is unrelated to the value of any physical quantity. Even a coin containing valuable metal may be considered fiat currency if its face value is higher than its market value as metal.


As far as labor goes for mining gold, in the great depression the average miner hauled in a meager 15 grains per day for a full day of hard labor. It would take over 29 days of labor at that rate to make up an ounce and it would still need to be assayed and finished into a coin or other convenience product for easy transfer.

Yes labor goes into producing bread but as was pointed out bread is not a great store of value as it will mold, get hard and go bad with time. The labor required to produce gold vs bread is shown in the price of each commodity when you ignore factors like subsidies and manipulation.

Gold has been a store of value (labor) for 4,000 years so it is not like the current dollar where some old guys actually did sit around and decide that it had value by their decree.
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  #257  
Old 08-22-2013, 6:28 PM
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It seems when Gold prices are low all is as good as it gets. When gold is high there is bad doo doo happening.
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  #258  
Old 08-22-2013, 6:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by problemchild View Post
"A currency is whatever is accepted as a medium of exchange. It can be paper money, gold or wheat berries (which have been found with mummies 2000 years old). For it to be accepted, the recipient has to be assured that it has the desired value for the good being exchanged. For paper money, that comes from the imprimatur of the issuing government.
That is just as true for gold. It is only the backing of governments that gives gold any value."--Nasdaq writer
In the debate, you offer analogies to support your idea, which are all debated, and when you cant debate the opposing and conflicting points of view, you resort to a quote you found somewhere by someone no one knows? You stated something which you probably knew would be contested, so that you could receive a response; now give some supporting reasons why you think this to convince us, or reveal your hidden intentions.
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  #259  
Old 08-23-2013, 7:40 AM
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On a day Gold and Silver make a nice move up, this video is fitting. Yo Ho, Yo Ho a pirates life for me !



Anyone interested in real time moves in the metals:

http://www.pmbull.com/silver-price/
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  #260  
Old 08-23-2013, 2:47 PM
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Just a beautiful close in the metals today. BTW I don't like this thread anymore, metals are strong and getting stronger, they will not hit new lows imo. Metal are set to move higher and higher with the normal pull backs on profit taking. If you got taken during the manipulation, bummer, that's the markets for ya.

With the London metals exchange being closed Monday, I am excited to think we could have a little surprise pop Monday from the Asian market to show the Elites who is really running this show here. I expect silver to open or close above $24.40 Tuesday and then it's off to the races should it stabilized above that mark imo. 200 day moving average is in sight on both Gold/Silver, here we come !

DYODD We ain't seen nothing yet, the pump is primed.
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  #261  
Old 08-23-2013, 3:02 PM
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Just about back where they were. I wish I had bought a bunch more silver instead of what I did.
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  #262  
Old 08-23-2013, 3:22 PM
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Do you all play the stock market too?
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  #263  
Old 08-23-2013, 7:48 PM
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sixoclockhold are you a commodities trader?

To anyone out there, does PM mean platinum metal in context of this thread?
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  #264  
Old 08-23-2013, 8:39 PM
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No, I'm a maintenance contractor.

PM's = Precious Metals
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  #265  
Old 08-23-2013, 11:09 PM
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So who moved in and manipulated the market today. I love PMs for SHTF but this game is rigged and investing in a rigged market is just silly if you aren't rigging it.
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  #266  
Old 08-23-2013, 11:13 PM
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Stay the course. You won't be disappointed.

At some point in time, all the chickens have to come home to roost.
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  #267  
Old 08-25-2013, 12:26 AM
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I can never win, I didn't buy at 11, bought at 30+, and didn't buy at 19 LOL!

Nah, I don't play stocks any longer.
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  #268  
Old 08-25-2013, 6:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny1290 View Post
I can never win, I didn't buy at 11, bought at 30+, and didn't buy at 19 LOL!

Nah, I don't play stocks any longer.
You may be even quicker than you think. Rumors of war, the uncertainty aspect tend to drive metal much higher.

I think I just got lucky, better lucky than good, Russia and China I am betting will be nice buyers at the opens tonight.

$100 moves in Gold may just arrived?
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  #269  
Old 08-25-2013, 6:51 AM
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Any increase in the price of gold represents a weakening of the dollar more than anything else. Because the U.S. Dollar is backed by, and created from, debt only, its future is certain. At some point probably not too far in the future, the dollar will become worthless as a means of exchange. Gold and silver are the commodities available to step in as that medium of exchange.
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  #270  
Old 08-26-2013, 7:11 PM
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is the current price a blip or the new trend?
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  #271  
Old 08-26-2013, 7:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheChief View Post
is the current price a blip or the new trend?
I'm voting trend for at least a few months till this Syria thang pans out. Metals usually do well with rising Oil prices. $150 barrel don't look out of range atm. And they could just trade in a basket of currencies that include gold if this thing goes nutsy.
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  #272  
Old 08-28-2013, 7:19 AM
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Default Sept fall

Why wasn’t the June low in gold at the $1,170 level and silver at the $18.22 final lows? In short, because neither metal hit their major long-term support levels precisely on cue. They came close, but not quite close
Gold and silver should move lower into the week of Sept. 23, with Sept. 26 being the target day for the major low .
You can see what the cycles show in this chart here. It highlights the most probable timing based on an analysis of over 1 billion different permutations of 12 years of gold data, or 3,060 daily data points

Last edited by 2112; 06-17-2014 at 7:53 PM..
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  #273  
Old 08-28-2013, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2112 View Post
Why wasn’t the June low in gold at the $1,170 level and silver at the $18.22 final lows? In short, because neither metal hit their major long-term support levels precisely on cue. They came close, but not quite close
Gold and silver should move lower into the week of Sept. 23, with Sept. 26 being the target day for the major low .
You can see what the cycles show in this chart here. It highlights the most probable timing based on an analysis of over 1 billion different permutations of 12 years of gold data, or 3,060 daily data points
With all due respect, I'm sure your efforts have been tireless and exact but these markets have a history of manipulation and in that, I don't believe many formula would work exactly. Close is close enough, the gold is gone and paper selling now is met with tremendous physical purchases.

We may in fact see a separation in the paper and physical markets which could easily give you $1100 gold, because paper gold is worth zip.

Given this weeks fiasco with Syria, I would bet both Russia and China accelerate their Gold reserve purchases. Both Gold/Silver have made 20% plus gains off their lows, we are in a bull trend of the 20 year bull trend in metals. We are only 12 years in.
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  #274  
Old 08-28-2013, 11:06 AM
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Silver and gold are a commodity and are traded as such. It is and always been a violate market. The last rise of silver was caused by speculators betting on the rise with 10 % leverage. The market changed the rule and made them put 50% to leverage and it took all the speculators and pressure off the market and it fell accordingly.

The commodities market is not for Joe average to be playing with his money, too many huge players that manipulate the market and make their money on the rise and fall that they control.

For SHTF I would be putting away silver coin as small as you can get it so people can break it down and make change. 1 oz coin or bullion would be okay depending of the worth of a ounce of silver when things go to heck.

If you take a look at the places that have had war and social break down the first thing they spent was gold and silver and they bought ammo and food at huge prices.

Fill your basket now with lots of different eggs gentlemen.

Last edited by KevinB; 08-28-2013 at 12:43 PM..
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  #275  
Old 09-19-2013, 7:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2112 View Post
Why wasn’t the June low in gold at the $1,170 level and silver at the $18.22 final lows? In short, because neither metal hit their major long-term support levels precisely on cue. They came close, but not quite close
Gold and silver should move lower into the week of Sept. 23, with Sept. 26 being the target day for the major low .
You can see what the cycles show in this chart here. It highlights the most probable timing based on an analysis of over 1 billion different permutations of 12 years of gold data, or 3,060 daily data points
The Taper issue may have messed up your data.

Here is an interesting chart I like, which plays right into my 4 yrs. from now retirement. While a Gold chart, silver normally leads gold action.

https://www.kitcomm.com/showthread.php?t=124550
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  #276  
Old 09-19-2013, 7:51 AM
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Damn, was hoping we were heading back towards $20 silver.
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  #277  
Old 09-19-2013, 8:02 AM
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Damn, was hoping we were heading back towards $20 silver.
It is.
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  #278  
Old 09-19-2013, 8:06 AM
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Damn cronies.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-0...t-gold-traders
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Old 09-19-2013, 8:27 AM
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That should tell you something?

My take, they forced the paper market down from highs thus freeing up the physical in the warehouses (no one else was actually selling physical) to gain more and more of both physical and paper. Now what we see is these banks one by one are saying close shorts and sideline but are they really going long paper again? This will force the physical demand of the ETF warehouses again, but there is NO GOLD to be had. Boooooom, rocket ship time making new highs.
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Old 09-19-2013, 9:52 AM
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It is.
Looks to me like it's headed back to $25
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