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Survival and Preparations Long and short term survival and 'prepping'.

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  #41  
Old 04-15-2013, 2:51 PM
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I hear the fed is selling gold this week, trying to drove gold prices downtown inflate the $. Also Cyprus dumping all their gold for a bail out is bringing prices down.
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  #42  
Old 04-15-2013, 5:10 PM
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JMHO...but in a realy prolonged SHTF thing...gold and silver won't be worth a nickel...sorry for the pun. I really think and still maintain that skills, seeds and ammo will be the only worthwhile "currency". Barter can't hurt either.
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  #43  
Old 04-15-2013, 5:21 PM
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Default Fed

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Originally Posted by slo5oh View Post
I hear the fed is selling gold this week, trying to drove gold prices downtown inflate the $. Also Cyprus dumping all their gold for a bail out is bringing prices down.
Can you show me something that says the Fed is selling.
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  #44  
Old 04-15-2013, 5:42 PM
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8:30p EST

Gold - $1325/oz
Silver - $22.12/oz
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  #45  
Old 04-15-2013, 5:46 PM
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Originally Posted by fivebyfive View Post
JMHO...but in a realy prolonged SHTF thing...gold and silver won't be worth a nickel...sorry for the pun. I really think and still maintain that skills, seeds and ammo will be the only worthwhile "currency". Barter can't hurt either.
Alcohol will also come in handy
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  #46  
Old 04-15-2013, 7:21 PM
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Federal Reserve was rigging all markets, not merely bond prices and interest rates, and that the Fed is rigging the bullion market in order to protect the US dollar’s exchange value, which is threatened by the Fed’s quantitative easing. With the Fed adding to the supply of dollars faster than the demand for dollars is increasing, the price or exchange value of the dollar is set up to fall.

A fall in the dollar’s exchange rate would push up import prices and, thereby, domestic inflation, and the Fed would lose control over interest rates. The bond market would collapse and with it the values of debt-related derivatives on the “banks too big too fail” balance sheets. The financial system would be in turmoil, and panic would reign.

Rapidly rising bullion prices were an indication of loss of confidence in the dollar and were signaling a drop in the dollar’s exchange rate. The Fed used naked shorts in the paper gold market to offset the price effect of a rising demand for bullion possession. Short sales that drive down the price trigger stop-loss orders that automatically lead to individual sales of bullion holdings once their loss limits are reached.

According to Andrew Maguire, on Friday, April 12, the Fed’s agents hit the market with 500 tons of naked shorts. Normally, a short is when an investor thinks the price of a stock or commodity is going to fall. He wants to sell the item in advance of the fall, pocket the money, and then buy the item back after it falls in price, thus making money on the short sale. If he doesn’t have the item, he borrows it from someone who does, putting up cash collateral equal to the current market price. Then he sells the item, waits for it to fall in price, buys it back at the lower price and returns it to the owner who returns his collateral. If enough shorts are sold, the result can be to drive down the market price.

A naked short is when the short seller does not have or borrow the item that he shorts, but sells shorts regardless. In the paper gold market, the participants are betting on gold prices and are content with the monetary payment. Therefore, generally, as participants are not interested in taking delivery of the gold, naked shorts do not need to be covered with the physical metal.

In other words, with naked shorts, no physical metal is actually sold.
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  #47  
Old 04-15-2013, 11:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Ripon83 View Post
Can you show me something that says the Fed is selling.
A coworker mentioned it today. Obviously what happens tomorrow is anyone's guess, but this is what he was talking about that has already happened: http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-fed...market/5331359
I also hear similar (prices dropping hard) from the guys working in the coin shop i frequent.

Last edited by slo5oh; 04-15-2013 at 11:17 PM..
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  #48  
Old 04-16-2013, 12:08 AM
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Borrowed from another forum. Seems relevant.

Quote:
Its precisely what has happened in Cypress which is in part causing the fall in gold and silver prices. They and a few other deeply indebted central banks are selling off their gold reserves into the marketplace, than you have speculators shorting left and right chasing paper gold positions out of the market.

Given the current economic data (Recent slowdown in China's GDP growth, lackluster jobs report, massive debts in most industrialized 1st world nations, massive bond purchasing programs by central banks, etc) I have very strong confidence that gold will rebound along with silver. Of which the later is effected by a slowdown in global growth due to its larger industrial uses which can be seen via the fall in prices of other industrial metals alongside crude oil.

Sometimes you need to step back and look at the bigger picture. This is shaping up as a wonderful buying opportunity right now when you think long term and take advantage of other people's unsavvy panicking.

In other words do you really believe that central banks will allow interest rates to rise (according to some pundits who believe deflation is occurring which is another reason why they suggest gold is taking a hit) or that they will just stop their QE measures which are sustaining the stock market drive and the bond markets? Furthermore do you think the US economy, let alone the global economy has improved at all? Look at our lackluster growth in our economy for the average American and jobs numbers.

If US and other global central banks reverse course and allow interest rates to rise or their currencies to deflate that would result in a magnifying of the massive government debt burdens and toxic asset sheets found in most western nation's central banks which are going to take decades to unwind. in the end they have no choice but to continue on their course until they get a heart beat or the patient goes flatline.
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  #49  
Old 04-16-2013, 7:32 AM
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10:30a EST

Gold - $1380/oz
Silver - $23.48/oz
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  #50  
Old 04-16-2013, 7:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by socal147 View Post
Gold will be $50 an ounce.
Silver will be $1 an ounce.

You never know...
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  #51  
Old 04-16-2013, 8:01 AM
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Default Thanks, but

Thanks for the link.

My problem with it is the web site promotes bullion, the source is one "Andrew" to which I can't put my full faith and trust. Now if the US Federal Reserve sold naked shorts in 500 TONS of good I would be shocked. I just find that incredibly conspiracle with out documentation. That is 16 million ounces and if true the Fed probably earned 3-4 billion dollars in 4 days.

Quote:
Originally Posted by slo5oh View Post
A coworker mentioned it today. Obviously what happens tomorrow is anyone's guess, but this is what he was talking about that has already happened: http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-fed...market/5331359
I also hear similar (prices dropping hard) from the guys working in the coin shop i frequent.
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  #52  
Old 04-16-2013, 2:33 PM
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I bought yesterday.
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  #53  
Old 04-16-2013, 4:05 PM
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As a poor student, I'm doing what I can. I feel like this is a "must buy" opportunity. I'm long in PM's, and plan to be for some time to come, so a correction like this is awesome. A couple of friends and I placed an order today for some Ag/Au. I like shiny stuffs...

I don't think I've seen a better time to buy since I started watching PM's, but I guess I'm fairly new to the game.
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  #54  
Old 04-16-2013, 4:30 PM
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If anybody is in Chico soon and wants to split a buy of silver let me know. I don’t wana pay tax but don’t really want to spend $1500 myself. Rounds/bars are $2.04 over spot locally.
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  #55  
Old 04-16-2013, 4:39 PM
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Liberty coin in signal hill will treat you right and has awesome price over spot fees.
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  #56  
Old 04-16-2013, 7:24 PM
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10:00p EST

Gold - $1380/oz
Silver - $23.59/oz

Gold recovered +$45 and silver +$1.47 over the past day.
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  #57  
Old 04-16-2013, 8:12 PM
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Silver and gold are going down more. The crooks at the JP Morg. are very conniving. They play mind games with the PM's to sucker you in and then take your money.

They run it up and they run it down with pre-staged flat spots to sucker you in/out. You guys think its a great low price now so you buy and it goes to 17. You then wont touch it at 17 because you dont want to lose money and it goes to 23. You buy at 23 and it goes to 20. They are geniuses are ripping people off. Think like a criminal mastermind before you buy.
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  #58  
Old 04-16-2013, 10:28 PM
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The bid-ask spread of pm is too high to be used as short term investment where one buy and sell in short succession. There are better and cheaper alternatives. People buy pm for other purposes that are not affected by short term (1-2 years) fluctuations.
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  #59  
Old 04-16-2013, 10:51 PM
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It should level off soon. I heard Soro's is buying again. He sold off in February.. Shocking huh!
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  #60  
Old 04-16-2013, 11:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ripon83 View Post
It should level off soon. I heard Soro's is buying again. He sold off in February.. Shocking huh!
The rich ALWAYS move their money first. When Soros sold I sold. I made out like a mad man. I bought ................ well Im not sayin.
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  #61  
Old 04-17-2013, 1:20 AM
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Damn, I don't get paid till Friday. Hope the price doesn't climb before I can buy some.
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  #62  
Old 04-17-2013, 3:19 AM
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Ive got about $800 to spend. Not sure what route to go. Up until now Ive only bought a silver coin or 2 at a time. What and where should I go with?
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  #63  
Old 04-17-2013, 9:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Socaliente View Post
Ive got about $800 to spend. Not sure what route to go. Up until now Ive only bought a silver coin or 2 at a time. What and where should I go with?
I am in a similiar boat. Given the swings in gold versus silver, seems like gold is a better near term bet. Maybe buy gold now, wait for it to stabilize and convert to silver?
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  #64  
Old 04-17-2013, 9:07 AM
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Does this mean the "Gold and Sliver Bubbles" have burst?
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  #65  
Old 04-17-2013, 9:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Socaliente View Post
Ive got about $800 to spend. Not sure what route to go. Up until now Ive only bought a silver coin or 2 at a time. What and where should I go with?
Unless you are actually buying for shtf, you can get an account to trade silver and gold company stocks which will closely follow the base price of the metal. Generally these stocks can also be sold short, a good thing, and a large enough account will have the opportunity for margin. There are a thousand brokers waiting by their phones ready to fund your account.

Just remember why they are called BROKEers.
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  #66  
Old 04-18-2013, 7:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Oceanbob View Post
As the economy gets better metals will drop.

Dave Ramsey would not invest in metals at this time.

JMO
If the economy gets better!
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  #67  
Old 04-19-2013, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Oceanbob View Post
As the economy gets better metals will drop.

Dave Ramsey would not invest in metals at this time.

JMO
It will be interesting to see.

As the economy improves, some people will bail from PM's since the store of value against fear (economic doomsday) is no longer needed. The move to equities will be irresistable.

But as the economy recovers, the effect of so much QE (currency printing) will begin to take hold in a highly inflationary manner. Which means you don't want to be holding cash or be invested in debt. Typically in inflationary periods, tangible assets perform best. So PM's look good again. But which will it be? Will PM's increase due to inflation like conventional wisdom indicates? Or will it underperform based on a flight to equities and other commodities (like oil)? Since silver and platinum are used industrially, they may act independent of gold.

Many fear it will be a jobless recovery, which means real estate which typically performs well in inflationary times will underperform because there are no buyers. So will real estate values increase due to inflation or deflate due to lack of demand (due to the jobless recovery and/or high mortgage rates)?

How good is your crystal ball?
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  #68  
Old 04-19-2013, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by DRH View Post
Dave Ramsey says that gold has no intrinsic value. I guess that is why the central banks of the world are buying up tons of it . I would be more inclined to believe the late JP Morgan when he said "Gold is money, everything else is credit".
Except for the fact that dear departed JP Morgan never said that....he said:

Quote:
Money is gold, and nothing else.
And then later that day he said:

Quote:

If a man had the credit, and I had the money, his customer would be badly off.
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  #69  
Old 04-19-2013, 8:07 PM
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Originally Posted by paul0660 View Post
Unless you are actually buying for shtf, you can get an account to trade silver and gold company stocks which will closely follow the base price of the metal. Generally these stocks can also be sold short, a good thing, and a large enough account will have the opportunity for margin. There are a thousand brokers waiting by their phones ready to fund your account.

Just remember why they are called BROKEers.
I agree, if you want to buy/sell metals for investment then do stocks. There's no reason to buy actual metal. However, if you think investing in metal for a SHTF event then you need to carefully think about where to spend your $$. IMHO I'd not be buying gold/silver (for a SHTF reason) even if gold was <$1000 (I'd buy gold stock as an investment if it got there). If you are prepping - food, ammo, antibiotics, ammo, ammo, would be a much better investment.
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  #70  
Old 04-20-2013, 3:56 AM
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The premiums for junk silver on ebay is nuts. A roll of dimes is worth $85 in silver right now. I was paying around $130 in uhh Nov? Dec? What's the cost of a roll of silver dimes on ebay right now? $130! LOL I guess paper silver is cheaper, but where the rubber meets the road, it's still about the same!!!
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  #71  
Old 04-20-2013, 4:28 PM
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All the shops in my neck of the woods have increased their premiums. from 3% and 5% up to 7.5% and 11% over spot. And they are using current or closing spot to their best interest.

Bad form.
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  #72  
Old 04-20-2013, 6:52 PM
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All the shops in my neck of the woods have increased their premiums. from 3% and 5% up to 7.5% and 11% over spot. And they are using current or closing spot to their best interest.

Bad form.
Yep!!! I'm seeing a rise in premium for PM's right now...the reason?...because they bought it for more and are trying to keep their margins.
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  #73  
Old 04-20-2013, 7:05 PM
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Originally Posted by TheChief View Post
All the shops in my neck of the woods have increased their premiums. from 3% and 5% up to 7.5% and 11% over spot. And they are using current or closing spot to their best interest.

Bad form.
Quote:
Originally Posted by glockman19 View Post
Yep!!! I'm seeing a rise in premium for PM's right now...the reason?...because they bought it for more and are trying to keep their margins.
First FFL gougers and now PM dealer gougers...
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  #74  
Old 04-20-2013, 8:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheChief View Post
All the shops in my neck of the woods have increased their premiums. from 3% and 5% up to 7.5% and 11% over spot. And they are using current or closing spot to their best interest.

Bad form.
I sold some rounds today via Craigslist at spot. A good deal for both of us.
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  #75  
Old 04-20-2013, 10:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 67Roadster View Post
Federal Reserve was rigging all markets, not merely bond prices and interest rates, and that the Fed is rigging the bullion market in order to protect the US dollar’s exchange value, which is threatened by the Fed’s quantitative easing. With the Fed adding to the supply of dollars faster than the demand for dollars is increasing, the price or exchange value of the dollar is set up to fall.

A fall in the dollar’s exchange rate would push up import prices and, thereby, domestic inflation, and the Fed would lose control over interest rates. The bond market would collapse and with it the values of debt-related derivatives on the “banks too big too fail” balance sheets. The financial system would be in turmoil, and panic would reign.

Rapidly rising bullion prices were an indication of loss of confidence in the dollar and were signaling a drop in the dollar’s exchange rate. The Fed used naked shorts in the paper gold market to offset the price effect of a rising demand for bullion possession. Short sales that drive down the price trigger stop-loss orders that automatically lead to individual sales of bullion holdings once their loss limits are reached.

According to Andrew Maguire, on Friday, April 12, the Fed’s agents hit the market with 500 tons of naked shorts. Normally, a short is when an investor thinks the price of a stock or commodity is going to fall. He wants to sell the item in advance of the fall, pocket the money, and then buy the item back after it falls in price, thus making money on the short sale. If he doesn’t have the item, he borrows it from someone who does, putting up cash collateral equal to the current market price. Then he sells the item, waits for it to fall in price, buys it back at the lower price and returns it to the owner who returns his collateral. If enough shorts are sold, the result can be to drive down the market price.

A naked short is when the short seller does not have or borrow the item that he shorts, but sells shorts regardless. In the paper gold market, the participants are betting on gold prices and are content with the monetary payment. Therefore, generally, as participants are not interested in taking delivery of the gold, naked shorts do not need to be covered with the physical metal.

In other words, with naked shorts, no physical metal is actually sold.
+1 but he forgot to mention that the FED sells gold at a 10 to 1 ratio for every one gold bar there are ten holders to that gold bar that they hold for them. This has created a problem since Germany has demanded all their gold back from the FED and the Central Bank of London and a few other places. The FED literaly didnt have enough gold on hand so they agreed to a seven year repayment plant which they give the gold back over seven years. Needless to say the market is manipulated and its best to have possesion of all gold as the FED has once more taught us. Also the price of gold goes up as the value of the dollar goes down generally. Every nation is trying to hedge their currancy deflation with the ownership of Gold (exect the US!). In short buy now while its down and hold it when its high.
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  #76  
Old 04-20-2013, 11:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k1dude View Post
It will be interesting to see.

As the economy improves, some people will bail from PM's since the store of value against fear (economic doomsday) is no longer needed. The move to equities will be irresistable.

But as the economy recovers, the effect of so much QE (currency printing) will begin to take hold in a highly inflationary manner. Which means you don't want to be holding cash or be invested in debt. Typically in inflationary periods, tangible assets perform best. So PM's look good again. But which will it be? Will PM's increase due to inflation like conventional wisdom indicates? Or will it underperform based on a flight to equities and other commodities (like oil)? Since silver and platinum are used industrially, they may act independent of gold.

Many fear it will be a jobless recovery, which means real estate which typically performs well in inflationary times will underperform because there are no buyers. So will real estate values increase due to inflation or deflate due to lack of demand (due to the jobless recovery and/or high mortgage rates)?

How good is your crystal ball?
What recovery? for the past 3 years the GDP has shrunk from a little over 2% to a little over 1% growth and the unemplyement rate has only gone from a little over 16% unemplyment to a little over 14% unemployment. At the current rate it will take at least six years to recover to a pre 2008 enpoyment and the GDP will shrink to negative growth. Ofcourse the slow job recovery will only happen if another bubble wont burst. For instance if the derivatives market finnaly crashes the world economy will go into a masive depression with over 1500 trillion in debt it is inevitable. Another bubble waiting to crash is student loans with only fourty percent of students being able to pay their lons it will eventually burst since they are no colateral loans it will be worse than the housing bubble crash. THe final major thing to worry about is the dolar itself. A fiat currecny life is normaly 40 years ours is at 80 right now and almost dead with over 90% of its value lost since its start. With so many problems the best solution is PM, guns, food, water, and ammo lol and be debt free.
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Old 04-21-2013, 3:04 AM
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k1dude k1dude is offline
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Originally Posted by bigguns85 View Post
What recovery? for the past 3 years the GDP has shrunk from a little over 2% to a little over 1% growth and the unemplyement rate has only gone from a little over 16% unemplyment to a little over 14% unemployment. At the current rate it will take at least six years to recover to a pre 2008 enpoyment and the GDP will shrink to negative growth. Ofcourse the slow job recovery will only happen if another bubble wont burst. For instance if the derivatives market finnaly crashes the world economy will go into a masive depression with over 1500 trillion in debt it is inevitable. Another bubble waiting to crash is student loans with only fourty percent of students being able to pay their lons it will eventually burst since they are no colateral loans it will be worse than the housing bubble crash. THe final major thing to worry about is the dolar itself. A fiat currecny life is normaly 40 years ours is at 80 right now and almost dead with over 90% of its value lost since its start. With so many problems the best solution is PM, guns, food, water, and ammo lol and be debt free.
Good point. Normally I would say a recovery is inevitable. Not necessarily under this administration, but at some point. But things are so screwed up I suspect it's a toss up which will come sooner, a complete collapse or a weak recovery.
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Old 04-21-2013, 11:29 AM
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Never forget that unemployment is only measured by the number of people COLLECTING unemployment. As soon as you run out of $ in unemployment you no longer count. No one ever tries to discover the real number.
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Old 04-21-2013, 2:46 PM
bigguns85 bigguns85 is offline
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Never forget that unemployment is only measured by the number of people COLLECTING unemployment. As soon as you run out of $ in unemployment you no longer count. No one ever tries to discover the real number.
You can find the more realistic number for unemployment. There are grade U1 through U6. The one the news and politiciancs normaly reprt are U3 and that one is totaly unrelaiable. THe U6 number which is currently a little over 14% is the most accuarate figure. Basically igonore the U3 crap the media reports. You can look up the stats through the government statistics.
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Last edited by bigguns85; 04-21-2013 at 2:51 PM..
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Old 04-21-2013, 3:07 PM
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http://www.davemanuel.com/investor-d...ployment-rate/

The link explains why the U6 number is the best one.
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