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Survival and Preparations Long and short term survival and 'prepping'.

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  #1  
Old 03-21-2017, 8:13 AM
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Default AVGAS for storage

the guy I bought a rototiller from (Joel at Earthtools) told me that modern gasoline is essentially only about 50% "gasoline" the rest is additives, ethanol, etc. He said the lions share of small engine issues are related to the new gas formulas that simply do not store well for more than a couple months, even with stabilizers added. 100LL however is actually about 90% "gasoline•" and that he has stored it for years with no issues, with no need for stabil. He says on his website now that he simply does not have any issues with stored fuel in any of his machines because he strictly runs 100LL. So in my race car, with a high compression engine that requires the octane I had a tank of 100ll fuel that has been sitting for 6months and i siphoned some out to see how it worked in my lawn mower- perfectly fine. I pulled the bowls off the carb and could find zero issues.
So, I am going to go stock up on 100ll, I know its more money, but if it saves me from even 1 carb rebuild it'll be worth it
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Old 03-21-2017, 8:15 AM
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FUD, I have stored crap gas in containers for 12 months for generators and never had any issues.
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Old 03-21-2017, 8:27 AM
KevinB KevinB is offline
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Aviation fuel has no alcohol in it and has really good preservatives in it.

Remember that AV gas octane is rated at 10,000 feet and regular automotive gas is checked at sea level. 100LL is about 93 octane at sea level.

It is a good fuel to run in your stuff that suffers the ills of alcohol and short life of fuel. It also doesn't rot away fuel hoses and carb parts like all the rest of CA fuels.

Don't get me started on CA diesel. Its the worst.
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Old 03-21-2017, 8:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinB View Post
Aviation fuel has no alcohol in it and has really good preservatives in it.

Remember that AV gas octane is rated at 10,000 feet and regular automotive gas is checked at sea level. 100LL is about 93 octane at sea level.

That is lore/FUD promoted by car guys. 100LL is actually around 130 octane at sea level. 100 is the lean rating for cruise altitude and 130 is the rich rating for takeoff.

And using 100LL you have to watch out for lead build up in the exhaust and your spark plugs will foul more frequently. You may also want to run a wider spark gap. And you should also change the oil (and filter if there is one) more frequently.

The Rotax 912 is a popular light aircraft engine designed for unleaded fuel common in Europe, but also rated for 100LL. However when using 100LL everything maintenance related goes way up. More frequent plug and oil changes, and the gearbox TBO goes down like 30%. That is all spec'd required maint intervals by the manufacturer. Sure it works, but leaded fuel isn't all it is cracked up to be in engines designed for unleaded. The simpler the engine the better off you will be using leaded fuel.

This guy is an avgas expert who spent 33 years at Shell.

The difference between 100LL and 100/130LL
https://generalaviationnews.com/2015...-and-100130ll/

The difficulty in determining rich and lean ratings
https://generalaviationnews.com/2017...-lean-ratings/

How long can fuel be safely stored?
https://generalaviationnews.com/2011...fely-stored-2/
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Last edited by SkyHawk; 03-21-2017 at 9:02 AM..
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Old 03-21-2017, 9:14 AM
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AV 100ll is my "go to" long term gasoline.

Besides that I run it in all the dirt bikes. They all start easier and I don't have to R&R carbs for cleaning etc.. Cleaning out the varnish and filth is easy, but still a pain. I do run the carbs dry, empty float bowls and let the tank gas stay put.

Other small engines get pump gas because they are used more often.
I have used old >12mos. pump gas in small engines and it will still work but sometimes harder to start.
Mix new gas in there 50/50 or so, things run fine.

I quit using stabilizers.

Sent using 2 cans and a long string.
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Old 03-21-2017, 4:41 PM
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Use to run it on my old boat when i was running decent compression.These days i just run 87 in my current boat but never any issues with old boat pinging or anything else related to fuel.This was mid to late 90s.

Newer regular fuel with higher ethanol content is hard on rubber lines or any rubber for that matter.I had a fuel pump diafram basically crack apart.I always check the rubber lines too often.
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Old 03-21-2017, 7:44 PM
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I've stored regular 87 for a year with no issues running in small 2-stoke engines and regular vehicles. I usually rotate on a shorter schedule.

Air tight galvanized steel container with some Stabil, stored in cool temperature stable location works for me.
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Old 03-21-2017, 9:02 PM
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My experience has been that California gasoline tends to go bad within two months without a fuel stabilizer added. In comparison, gasoline from Washington state seemed to stay "good" longer.
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Old 03-21-2017, 9:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike415stone View Post
FUD, I have stored crap gas in containers for 12 months for generators and never had any issues.
Unless you used a fuel stabilizer, I find this very hard to believe.
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Old 03-22-2017, 1:40 AM
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Octane booster will generally revive old gas.
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Old 03-22-2017, 9:50 AM
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Will a gasoline with that high an octane be suitable for a generator without risk of spark plug fouling?
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Old 03-22-2017, 2:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 'ol shooter View Post
Will a gasoline with that high an octane be suitable for a generator without risk of spark plug fouling?
I don't make a habit of running av gas in my yamaha genny, but the dirt bikes love it.
125's and 450 still using origional plugs. The manual says NOT to use anything that's leaded, but Jimmy crack corn and I don't care. 😆 It works for me 100%.

My intention is to have "good gas" on hand that won't sheet the bed when I need it most.

AV gas is what I use.

Sent using 2 cans and a long string.
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Old 03-22-2017, 6:15 PM
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I have been running it for years in my small engines and I have never had a problem. I have noticed that my plugs would foul with my 2 stroke ATV
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Old 03-23-2017, 8:46 AM
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What about race gas? I've used that for years, and it's a heck of a lot easier to find (and generally cheaper) than avgas. VP Racing 100 octane can be had at plenty of places, and I don't think it has ethanol in it. Seems to last forever, and in a pinch you can use it in your daily driver if needed (without frying the cats and O2 sensors).

When Union 76 was in the race gas business, I used it in all my high performance cars, and also ran it in some of my small engines (like the 125 cc Husky chainsaw - that thing is a beast). Never a problem with cars sitting for a year or two and then starting right up with no issues.
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Old 03-23-2017, 8:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nacho_Eater View Post
My experience has been that California gasoline tends to go bad within two months without a fuel stabilizer added. In comparison, gasoline from Washington state seemed to stay "good" longer.
Better check where the heck your getting your fuel from
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Old 03-23-2017, 8:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nacho_Eater View Post
Unless you used a fuel stabilizer, I find this very hard to believe.
Believe it because it's fact
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Old 03-23-2017, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike415stone View Post
Believe it because it's fact
I can back him up. I go months with 87 octane sitting in the tank of my 68 Plymouth. Drove it for the first time in 6 months last week, and I don't think I put any gas in the tank since 2 months before that. Started right up. No Stabil. No rotted fuel lines. Throttle is crisp & reactive. Regular ole' Mobil 87 Octane from up the street.
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Old 03-24-2017, 10:03 AM
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Call around to some of your local bulk oil/fuel delivery companies. Some up here carry ethanol free unleaded and all kinds of other products and will fill your container at the plant.
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Old 03-25-2017, 3:38 AM
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Order 5 gallon containers of fuel on ebay...
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