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Survival and Preparations Long and short term survival and 'prepping'.

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  #1  
Old 06-13-2016, 9:38 AM
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Default 4yrs off grid and a hobby farm, what Ive learned...

The 3 most important things are, shelter, water and food, followed closely by energy (wood and solar).

We consume 200 gallons of water per week, that amount is for 2 adults and all our animals. We could get by on half of that if we skipped a day between showers and taught our pigs to drink off pig nipples. The pigs waste about 6-10 gallons per day dunking their heads in the water tank.

You could survive on egg laying chickens alone. The darned birds lay an egg every 24hrs. I am truly amazed by these egg laying machines. We have red stars (red sex links) and RIR's. The rhode island reds lay a medium-large egg per day and the RSL's lay a jumbo++ egg per day. The RSL's egg wont fit in a carton with the lid closed

The chickens need a balanced diet to get maximum egg production. Too many snacks or treats (human scraps) and egg laying drops.

If chickens get stressed (snow, heat, new environment, new chickens, scared, disease) egg production drops. Our chickens lay all year round, even during winter. They hate walking on snow so I dig and path for them and cover it with straw.

Meat chickens are a good source of fast food for canning. MC's grow to butcher size in 7-8 weeks. Ours got to 9lbs in 8 weeks. They looked like mini-turkeys. The key to MC's is to moderate their food. Do not feed them all they can eat. They will explode . MC's grow so fast they outgrow their internal organs capacity and die. You can have a 25% die off if you feed them too much. As they get larger you can give them more food. They spend most of their time sitting down they are so fat.

Turkeys are another weird bird. Ours grew to 50-60lbs and I needed two people to lift the 60lb bird to butcher. We had to put him in a 55 gallon drum with hot water to pluck the feathers, no pot was big enough for that task. Our turkeys grew for 7 months. But we could have butchered them in 3-4. We just let them free range and eat all the bugs and weeds. I gave them some grain at night when they went to bed. If you feed late the food turns into weight gain while they sleep. then the birds look for food all day and feed themselves.

Food storage is a PITA. You can either can it or freeze it. Canning burns propane, but power for freezers is HUGE. We prefer to can everything, it lasts a good long time and no spoiled meat from freezer burn. Plus canned meat is tender and has a better taste. I am looking into actual metal canning instead of glass jar canning. Metal cans seem less fragile and you wont have any lids losing vacuum.

For keeping short term items we went with a high-efficiency chest freezer turned into a chest refrigerator. All you have to do is buy a different thermostat and the freezer becomes a super efficient fridge. The idea being cold air sinks so every time you open the door all the cold air stays put instead of running out on the floor (like a vertical fridge). Our chest fridge uses about .5kw per day. I can generate that amount of power from the sun with 1 100watt panel in about 1/2 day. The chest freezers are also better insulated than vertical fridges.

I want to buy and bury a cement water tank about 9 feet down to turn into a root cellar. The ground stays very cold here all year long. I might also look into storing ice blocks like the old timers use to do. Something to think about.

During cold months we get our heat from logs. We need about 5 cords per winter. I want to run a heat exchanger off the generator and heat the house with that. The solar power is down during winter and the generator use is up. We need to buy a water cooled generator so I can pipe the water to a radiator and blow the heat into the house. We could also use the heat for taking hot showers. Honda makes a small co-gen plant for houses but its impossible to find one or any info on it. Retrofits and energy savings all cost a ton of money to start. Nothing is free!

Chainsaws are one of most valuable tools. I carry 4 extra chains, a bar and lots of extra oil. I had to learn how to sharpen my own chain. You can tell how sharp a chain is by the chips being thrown off while cutting. Long large chips and the chain is sharp. Small saw-dust and the chain is dull. Chainsaws are also extremely dangerous. I always wear chaps even for short quick jobs.

4x4 trucks are my second most useful tool. Most of what I do needs a truck. From pulling logs out of the forest to hauling totes of feed. I want to buy an older non-emp truck but the prices are high and I cant find a good one around here. An old Ford high-boy would be a great truck.


Many things I had to learn how to do for the first time. Like my first time butchering a deer. It looks so simple on u-tube but try to remember how to get the crap tube out of the pelvic region with spilling the guts into the abdominal cavity. I ended up using a hand hatchet to cut through the pelvis and out she slid. We hung the meat from a tree for 8 days (it was cold) and ate the fillets and tender loins. The roasts we stewed.

This year I plan on getting an Elk. But the areas we hunt are steep and rigorous. Not an easy undertaking for a first timer. Most guys use quads or pack horses. If you dont have those then guys will team-up and 3 guys carry the quartered meat.

Life isn't easy in bug-out-land. Its lots of hard back breaking work. Most of it is dangerous as well. One simple slip or not paying attention gets you really hurt fast.

Well thats a small amount of info from an off gridder......

Last edited by uparmor; 06-18-2016 at 9:09 PM..
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Old 06-13-2016, 9:42 AM
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Insightful post. Thanks.
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Old 06-13-2016, 9:55 AM
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Where are you at NorCal or out of state?
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Old 06-13-2016, 10:01 AM
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Thanks for the post! Looking for more updates. A pics would be nice too


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Old 06-13-2016, 10:15 AM
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Thanks for swinging round to share!
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Old 06-13-2016, 10:29 AM
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Some quick questions:

What breed did you choose for meat chickens?

Do you have a greenhouse yet?

Are you considering larger livestock like sheep or goats?

We have mixed chicken breeds for egg production and have some ducks as well. Duck eggs are richer (lower water content) and are preferred for baking. There are 6 gineau fowl keets growing right now to keep rodents, bugs and snakes down. They pretty much fend for themselves and roost in the trees once they reach maturity, and will self replicate. We also have 2 alpine goats. They'll eat pretty much anything and will give milk once we breed them this fall, plus we get an extra goat out of the deal for each breeding doe. Considering Boers for meat production as well. A freezer full of meat is great, until the freezer breaks down, then it's a box of spoiled meat if you can't get to it quickly enough. It lasts a lot longer on the hoof, plus the animals keep down weeds which in turn reduces pest insects. I can also sell a goat if I need some quick cash. Can't sell deer meat.

On hunting, if you think skinning out a deer was hard, wait to you have to skin an elk. You almost have to butcher it in the field to get it out. You'll be dragging out quarters. I'm looking to buy a mule or a llama for packing the meat out. I prefer the llama because it's easier to feed and does double duty as predator control.
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Old 06-13-2016, 11:28 AM
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Great Post by OP. But sounds like LOTS of Work Year round. There was a Reason for advances in Technology like Central Heating, Electricity, etc.

I'm a Semi Rural Guy, Just under a 1/2 Acre to play with. So limited to Food Supplement and Hobby Farming. Goats, Rabbits and Chickens will be the "livestock". Raised 25'X25' Foot Garden did yield LOTS of Veggies last year and More planned for this year.

A slow learning curve. Wife can now can and pickle and make prepared Jams/preserves. Fun for her and appreciated as Gifts.

Ideally I would relocate to even more Rural out of State when Spouse can retire in 7 years. But by then I will be 65 and it IS taxing physically to live off grid. So I suspect will Continue with Hobby Farming on a slightly bigger scale and cheat using as much labor saving stuff as possible...Mini Tractors, etc.
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Old 06-13-2016, 11:31 AM
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Old 06-13-2016, 11:36 AM
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Cool post.

Location?

How do you off-grid and internet?
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Old 06-13-2016, 11:45 AM
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Great to hear. The wife and I are headed off grid into the Great American Redoubt next summer. Post up some polaroids when you get a chance.
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Old 06-13-2016, 12:01 PM
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Good post!

Def agree on the superiority of canned meat. Nothing like the tenderness. Metals cans we have never done, just glass jars.

Good luck with your elk. My brother-in-law gets a tag each year, and like you said, he's fully decked out with his quad runner and 24 volt demo saw -- he has no choice but to do the butchering in the field. Meat for the entire family for 6 months or longer, and that's with generous gifting to friends and others. Big animals are a whole different can of worms.
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Old 06-13-2016, 12:15 PM
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Great post, I got tired just reading it. Glad you're doing well and have overcome the hardships. Stay safe and be prosperous.

An old man who worked hard his whole life needs to know his limitations. I'm gonna stick with Casino's, 600 thread counts and be pampered in the restaurants.

Good Luck and Gods speed.
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Old 06-13-2016, 1:26 PM
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Living on a off grid farm is extremely hard work.

The ranch is not off grid as we have grid power to my place. By far the cheapest way to go. We have a huge solar - battery- generator set up that is designed to run everything. Without grid power we can still run everything seamlessly. You are correct, solar sucks during the short days of winter and stormy days.

Fuel is always going to be a problem. We keep the propane, and diesel tanks full pretty much all the time. we fill everything this time of the year when the prices are low. Just bought 1250 gallons of propane for 1.65 a gallon. Off road diesel has come way down also.

Firewood comes off our own property and it takes about 6 to 7 cords a year. This year the fire has given us a bounty of firewood. We have perhaps 40 cords cut and stacked but not split.

We raise beef, chickens and goats. We butcher all our own and all game that we kill also. We have a couple of old propane powered freezers that work really well but don't use unless there is a long term power failure.

My missus is a big time canner but will not put any meats in steel cans. She has enough jars to last several lifetimes. Her food stores are measures in ton's, the good Mormon that she is.

I have a vineyard and zinfandel grapes are my primary crop. Water is not a issue and the plumbing is pretty permanent. 200 gallons a day wouldn't get my wife thru her daily showers let alone laundry. I am impressed.

Wild turkeys are a real problem. They fly and they like grapes. That is a never ending issue up here. All the kids, their kids and friends shoot them during the season. Tasty but all you can eat is breast and thighs. The dogs keep them out of the vineyards. A 9 foot fence topped with barbed wire keeps the deer and occasional bear out.

We don't own anything with tires that isn't 4 wheel drive. A couple of tractors, quads, mowers and trimmers and such.
Chainsaws are a big part of my tool shed. We have bought bulk chain on a roll for years.

All my grapes are processed off site so that cuts down on a lot of equipment.

Farming, big or small is hard work. Off grid, I couldn't do it without the whole clan helping.

We have a huge garden and orchard. We are knee deep in cots and maters right now with everything else close behind.

We live in town during the week unless duty calls or we are doing something special. Its 45 minutes on a good day to get there from town. My wife is a nurse and I own a business.

I'm on the shady side of 60 years old. Hopefully the 14 hours days are behind me.
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Old 06-13-2016, 4:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by njineermike View Post
Some quick questions:

What breed did you choose for meat chickens?

Do you have a greenhouse yet?

Are you considering larger livestock like sheep or goats?

We have mixed chicken breeds for egg production and have some ducks as well. Duck eggs are richer (lower water content) and are preferred for baking. There are 6 gineau fowl keets growing right now to keep rodents, bugs and snakes down. They pretty much fend for themselves and roost in the trees once they reach maturity, and will self replicate. We also have 2 alpine goats. They'll eat pretty much anything and will give milk once we breed them this fall, plus we get an extra goat out of the deal for each breeding doe. Considering Boers for meat production as well. A freezer full of meat is great, until the freezer breaks down, then it's a box of spoiled meat if you can't get to it quickly enough. It lasts a lot longer on the hoof, plus the animals keep down weeds which in turn reduces pest insects. I can also sell a goat if I need some quick cash. Can't sell deer meat.

On hunting, if you think skinning out a deer was hard, wait to you have to skin an elk. You almost have to butcher it in the field to get it out. You'll be dragging out quarters. I'm looking to buy a mule or a llama for packing the meat out. I prefer the llama because it's easier to feed and does double duty as predator control.
We had Guineafowl and they tore our chickens up. Our rooster got his butt kicked. How are they around your chickens ?.


lama's don't make good pack animals. They don't carry enough. Better to buy a big donkey or small mule.
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Old 06-13-2016, 8:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinB View Post
We had Guineafowl and they tore our chickens up. Our rooster got his butt kicked. How are they around your chickens ?.


lama's don't make good pack animals. They don't carry enough. Better to buy a big donkey or small mule.
The gineaus were never an issue at my grandad's farm, and mine are just keets, so I'll know more later. If they're too much trouble, they'll be dinner. I thought about a mule and a donkey, but the cost of ownership is a lot higher. They're pretty much nothing but an expense until you need a pack animal.
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Old 06-13-2016, 8:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by njineermike View Post
The gineaus were never an issue at my grandad's farm, and mine are just keets, so I'll know more later. If they're too much trouble, they'll be dinner. I thought about a mule and a donkey, but the cost of ownership is a lot higher. They're pretty much nothing but an expense until you need a pack animal.
One of my daughters has a couple of donkeys she uses as pack animals. My mules would starve to death on their rations. She uses them when she goes back packing, they carry everything. Dog trained, come when called and they like everyone. I think she got both of them for free.
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Old 06-13-2016, 8:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinB View Post
One of my daughters has a couple of donkeys she uses as pack animals. My mules would starve to death on their rations. She uses them when she goes back packing, they carry everything. Dog trained, come when called and they like everyone. I think she got both of them for free.
Free is in my budget.
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Old 06-14-2016, 6:05 AM
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Great info, thank you.
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Old 06-14-2016, 6:16 AM
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4 years and going strong .....Nice

Good info..Thanks

Do you sell your extra eggs ??????????
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Old 06-14-2016, 6:56 AM
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Holy cow, puts my little farm to shame.

One thing I think we can pass on to the bug-out-types is this:

It will be IMPOSSIBLE to just bug out and be off grid successfully. It might work for a week or two but you just need too many things to survive.

PLUS

Folks in rural areas DO NOT like strangers driving down their roads during good times. If it were bad times they would shoot at you.

We needed a well.
Cistern
Trees
Seasoned firewood split up
House
Solar
Batteries
MPPT charger
Shipping containers
Feed barrels
Feed
Wood stove
Chainsaw
logging cables, pulleys, chokers
log splitter
work bench
vise
tools
garden
fences
t-poles
t-pole hammer
back up water pump
electric fences
lumber for coops, pens etc
metal roofing
generators
propane tanks
fuel tanks
water tanks
Sheds
Snow plow
Quad
excavator


Thats just to survive short term. If you want to go years you need more. I probable missed a lot.






Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinB View Post
Living on a off grid farm is extremely hard work.

The ranch is not off grid as we have grid power to my place. By far the cheapest way to go. We have a huge solar - battery- generator set up that is designed to run everything. Without grid power we can still run everything seamlessly. You are correct, solar sucks during the short days of winter and stormy days.

Fuel is always going to be a problem. We keep the propane, and diesel tanks full pretty much all the time. we fill everything this time of the year when the prices are low. Just bought 1250 gallons of propane for 1.65 a gallon. Off road diesel has come way down also.

Firewood comes off our own property and it takes about 6 to 7 cords a year. This year the fire has given us a bounty of firewood. We have perhaps 40 cords cut and stacked but not split.

We raise beef, chickens and goats. We butcher all our own and all game that we kill also. We have a couple of old propane powered freezers that work really well but don't use unless there is a long term power failure.

My missus is a big time canner but will not put any meats in steel cans. She has enough jars to last several lifetimes. Her food stores are measures in ton's, the good Mormon that she is.

I have a vineyard and zinfandel grapes are my primary crop. Water is not a issue and the plumbing is pretty permanent. 200 gallons a day wouldn't get my wife thru her daily showers let alone laundry. I am impressed.

Wild turkeys are a real problem. They fly and they like grapes. That is a never ending issue up here. All the kids, their kids and friends shoot them during the season. Tasty but all you can eat is breast and thighs. The dogs keep them out of the vineyards. A 9 foot fence topped with barbed wire keeps the deer and occasional bear out.

We don't own anything with tires that isn't 4 wheel drive. A couple of tractors, quads, mowers and trimmers and such.
Chainsaws are a big part of my tool shed. We have bought bulk chain on a roll for years.

All my grapes are processed off site so that cuts down on a lot of equipment.

Farming, big or small is hard work. Off grid, I couldn't do it without the whole clan helping.

We have a huge garden and orchard. We are knee deep in cots and maters right now with everything else close behind.

We live in town during the week unless duty calls or we are doing something special. Its 45 minutes on a good day to get there from town. My wife is a nurse and I own a business.

I'm on the shady side of 60 years old. Hopefully the 14 hours days are behind me.

Last edited by uparmor; 06-14-2016 at 6:58 AM..
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Old 06-14-2016, 7:11 AM
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Thank you for the post uparmor. I appreciate the time you took to detail and share your experience.

A few questions:

Where are you located? The general area, so we can understand the type of environment (land, weather, etc.) you're in.
How much land are you on?
Did you have the land or purchase it?
Would you're current setup, be able to handle a larger group?
You mention your water usage is for 2 adults, are there any more people with you? I know this seems like it could be "opsec" type of question, but I'm more interested in finding out if your setup would handle a larger family unit.

I would love to be able to do what you're doing!
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Old 06-14-2016, 11:09 AM
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Great contribution Uparmor, thank you.

My wife and I are in an interesting position. We both retired early and sold our California real estate, then moved to the Pacific Northwest where we are renting in the rural area we wish to live in while we search for the right property. Our desire is to live as independently as possible on a minimum of ten acres but preferably much more. We've looked at about 24 properties so far ranging from about 20 to 400 acres.

We have no illusions about the work it will take to build or buy a suitable home on the right piece of land and get in shape to be mostly self sustaining. We think it is very important to be in the area so we can carefully research every aspect of potential properties before we spend our hard earned money which is why we are renting in the area first.

Dependable well or spring water, good soil for growing, southern exposure, privacy and access are at the top of the list in evaluating property. On a small scale, we are already practicing as many country living skills as we can in preparation for living without dependence on grid power, water companies and other fragile infrastructure.

We are learning what will grow in this climate and experimenting with canning and food drying. We are heating entirely with wood and will continue to do so when we find the right property. Folks like you who have already accomplished some of these goals have always been a source of wisdom and inspiration.

Soon, I hope to be able to share some of our own success stories as our own journey unfolds. We feel blessed to have come as far as we have. When we find the right property, the real work will begin.
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Old 06-14-2016, 2:40 PM
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[QUOTE=uparmor;18321057]Holy cow, puts my little farm to shame.

One thing I think we can pass on to the bug-out-types is this:

It will be IMPOSSIBLE to just bug out and be off grid successfully. It might work for a week or two but you just need too many things to survive.

PLUS

Folks in rural areas DO NOT like strangers driving down their roads during good times. If it were bad times they would shoot at you.

We needed a well.
Cistern
Trees
Seasoned firewood split up
House
Solar
Batteries
MPPT charger
Shipping containers
Feed barrels
Feed
Wood stove
Chainsaw
logging cables, pulleys, chokers
log splitter
work bench
vise
tools
garden
fences
t-poles
t-pole hammer
back up water pump
electric fences
lumber for coops, pens etc
metal roofing
generators
propane tanks
fuel tanks
water tanks
Sheds
Snow plow
Quad
excavator


Thats just to survive short term. If you want to go years you need more. I probable missed a lot.

To add to that list :

Every nail, screw, hose clamp, nut, bolt, wire, plugs, spark plug, tire repair kit and every piece of hardware known to man.

Welders, Mig and tig

Cutting torch

Hyd jacks

Air compressor, big enough to run air tools

Lots of chain and cable

bulk oil, 200 gallons at least

Spare tires and parts for everything that has a motor.

3 year supply of pesticides.

Seeds.

Patience and ingenuity, two of the most important things.

List will never end.
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Old 06-14-2016, 3:06 PM
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[QUOTE=KevinB;18323641]
Quote:
Originally Posted by uparmor View Post
Holy cow, puts my little farm to shame.

One thing I think we can pass on to the bug-out-types is this:

It will be IMPOSSIBLE to just bug out and be off grid successfully. It might work for a week or two but you just need too many things to survive.

PLUS

Folks in rural areas DO NOT like strangers driving down their roads during good times. If it were bad times they would shoot at you.

We needed a well.
Cistern
Trees
Seasoned firewood split up
House
Solar
Batteries
MPPT charger
Shipping containers
Feed barrels
Feed
Wood stove
Chainsaw
logging cables, pulleys, chokers
log splitter
work bench
vise
tools
garden
fences
t-poles
t-pole hammer
back up water pump
electric fences
lumber for coops, pens etc
metal roofing
generators
propane tanks
fuel tanks
water tanks
Sheds
Snow plow
Quad
excavator


Thats just to survive short term. If you want to go years you need more. I probable missed a lot.

To add to that list :

Every nail, screw, hose clamp, nut, bolt, wire, plugs, spark plug, tire repair kit and every piece of hardware known to man.

Welders, Mig and tig

Cutting torch

Hyd jacks

Air compressor, big enough to run air tools

Lots of chain and cable

bulk oil, 200 gallons at least

Spare tires and parts for everything that has a motor.

3 year supply of pesticides.

Seeds.

Patience and ingenuity, two of the most important things.

List will never end.
Alaskan sawmill
Thousands upon thousands of nail gun nails
Furnace for smelting
Plasma cutter
Consumables for the welding and cutting equipment.

Yep. The list never ends.....
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Old 06-14-2016, 3:41 PM
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Thanks for sharing OP.
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Old 06-14-2016, 4:39 PM
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Good thread...
Note to self. Pray for help from above.
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Old 06-23-2016, 8:47 PM
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So I guess it's not as easy as the Waltons made it seem...
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Old 06-24-2016, 5:53 PM
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+1 on the sawmill. Learn joining without nails/screws.

Learn integrated pest management to minimize the impact of pests and reduce the news got pesticides/fertilizer. Encourage beneficial insects and local native pollinators.

I prefer sheep over goats as goats eat too low to the ground and kill the plants.

A few cattle is not hard of you have sufficient forage. I like to have one or two calves that get slaugtered at weaning time. Free milk plus very tasty meat is hard to beat.

A steer or two at 800 to 1000 pounds certainty yields lots of meat but they eat and drink a lot and are kind of scary. Be sure to select a well know docile breed of going this route.

Build close relations with neighbors ... you will need each other. Bartering is big business so know what your neighbors lack and full the gaps.



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Old 06-29-2016, 6:54 PM
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Originally Posted by cudakidd View Post
Great Post by OP. But sounds like LOTS of Work Year round. There was a Reason for advances in Technology like Central Heating, Electricity, etc.

I'm a Semi Rural Guy, Just under a 1/2 Acre to play with. So limited to Food Supplement and Hobby Farming. Goats, Rabbits and Chickens will be the "livestock". Raised 25'X25' Foot Garden did yield LOTS of Veggies last year and More planned for this year.

A slow learning curve. Wife can now can and pickle and make prepared Jams/preserves. Fun for her and appreciated as Gifts.

Ideally I would relocate to even more Rural out of State when Spouse can retire in 7 years. But by then I will be 65 and it IS taxing physically to live off grid. So I suspect will Continue with Hobby Farming on a slightly bigger scale and cheat using as much labor saving stuff as possible...Mini Tractors, etc.
People forget that point all the time.

And another good point brought up is rural folk don't like strangers, or strange looking people. Xenophobia is very strong in the hills.
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Old 07-01-2016, 9:26 AM
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People forget that point all the time.

And another good point brought up is rural folk don't like strangers, or strange looking people. Xenophobia is very strong in the hills.
It is the Rural Duality.

Life in real rural situations is about cooperative survival. Everyone is a link in the chain. Trust is needed and must be earned. Rural folks are really really nice if you provide a good impression, even if a stranger. They won't trust you but they will take good care of you but they expect your best behavior.

Aka, they are real folk, lacking the intricate hates and subterfuges of city folk.

If you look city, odd, you are classified as disruptive, dangerous, and you will get the kind of reception you could expect. Life is different out there. Strange and deviant is not just a social mark, it is a survival mark. As in a negative one. Strange and deviant is dangerous and disruptive of the careful skein that keeps everything working and everyone alive and safe.

City Snowflakes get all butt hurt over it but only in a place like a city where life is managed by their betters and superiors and all food/water/power/ even transportation is provided by others can such deviancy find fertile ground to prosper.

Until you've been chest deep in a fast flow in mud during a major rainstorm digging out drainage to save a critical road for you and your neighbors do you understand the kind of solidarity and strength and communal good will that Rural Folk have for each other.

The men were digging, the teens were digging, the women and girls were on station to bring hot drinks and help clean up the men as they worked in shifts.

Or how about fighting a rural fire to save you and yours and your neighbors because by the time the county or forestry folk get there everyone would have lost everything.

Yeah, I've done both. The hills have eyes folks are rural rejects, ejected from the proper rural society they form their own genetically deviant communes. No, I am not joking. These gene-deviants are disgusting to me. Yes I am a genetic supremacist.
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Old 07-01-2016, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by meaty-btz View Post
It is the Rural Duality.

Life in real rural situations is about cooperative survival. Everyone is a link in the chain. Trust is needed and must be earned. Rural folks are really really nice if you provide a good impression, even if a stranger. They won't trust you but they will take good care of you but they expect your best behavior.

Aka, they are real folk, lacking the intricate hates and subterfuges of city folk.

If you look city, odd, you are classified as disruptive, dangerous, and you will get the kind of reception you could expect. Life is different out there. Strange and deviant is not just a social mark, it is a survival mark. As in a negative one. Strange and deviant is dangerous and disruptive of the careful skein that keeps everything working and everyone alive and safe.

City Snowflakes get all butt hurt over it but only in a place like a city where life is managed by their betters and superiors and all food/water/power/ even transportation is provided by others can such deviancy find fertile ground to prosper.

Until you've been chest deep in a fast flow in mud during a major rainstorm digging out drainage to save a critical road for you and your neighbors do you understand the kind of solidarity and strength and communal good will that Rural Folk have for each other.

The men were digging, the teens were digging, the women and girls were on station to bring hot drinks and help clean up the men as they worked in shifts.

Or how about fighting a rural fire to save you and yours and your neighbors because by the time the county or forestry folk get there everyone would have lost everything.

Yeah, I've done both. The hills have eyes folks are rural rejects, ejected from the proper rural society they form their own genetically deviant communes. No, I am not joking. These gene-deviants are disgusting to me. Yes I am a genetic supremacist.
This is the point people miss. The city people complain country people don't "accept" them. Country people have seen plenty of city people come in and screw up things that were working perfectly fine before they got there, so they don't trust them.

A perfect example just happened here. Farmer owns large plots of land and raises pigs. Farmer has been raising pigs there for several generations, miles from any other houses. Neighboring landowners sells some land for developement. A small subdivision is built. City people move to the "country" (as if anyone with half a brain would call a sanitized subdivision with a couple of open fields "country" even though it's full of asphalt, houses, and privacy fences) but complain the country smells like the country. Subdivision HOA sues farmer over pig odor, because, well, pigs smell bad. Farmer wins lawsuit, but the financial cost runs him out of business. HOA pressures county commission to ban the raising of pigs on any land adjacent to any residential zones property. County tells city people that it won't do that. Other livestock farmers are concerned they may be forced to move farther east to avoid recent threats of lawsuits over cattle and other livestock. Because, city people.

Another example: City people move to country and hear gunshots. Neighbors hunt upland game birds on open grasslands and engage in recreational shooting on private land. City people call police. Police explain this is legal, tell city people to stop calling them. City people complain about local gun club and complain about how hunting is immoral, violent, and cruel. Country people ignore city people and continue to shoot and hunt. City people pressure county to force closure of local gun club. County tells city people they need to accept the country as the country and stop trying to make it the city.

Next example: Country has coyotes. Coyotes kill domestic animals. Country people kill coyotes. City people are upset country people kill magnificent wild creature with as much right to live as they have, but want something done to prevent coyotes from eating their cats, labradoodles, and other assorted useless domestic household dung creators that doesn't involve taking the life of said magnificent predator. State informs city people there is no such thing as "rehoming" of coyotes. City people circulate petition to stop coyote hunting. Nobody but other city people or village idiots sign petition.

And the city people are stumped as to why the longtime rural residents do not like them and resent their presence.
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Old 07-01-2016, 6:56 PM
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Saw this cooperation last winter. We had 90mph winds after 2 weeks of rain. All the ground was soaked and the HUGE 100yr/old trees toppled over. The trees broke everything from power to roads. All the folks on my country lane came out the next day and started cutting trees. We had 7 guys to a tree (big trees) all running large chainsaws. We got the trees chopped up real quick and cleared the roads. The power didnt come back for 10 days but all the folks here were ready and had gens and food. No problems at all.

The one big city lady here didnt come out to lift a finger to help so she got no help back. Driveway stayed blocked and she basically had to call for paid help 2 weeks later. She didnt get her driveway plowed all winter. She never comes out to lift a finger and gets none in return. She just doesnt get it.



Quote:
Originally Posted by meaty-btz View Post
It is the Rural Duality.

Life in real rural situations is about cooperative survival. Everyone is a link in the chain. Trust is needed and must be earned. Rural folks are really really nice if you provide a good impression, even if a stranger. They won't trust you but they will take good care of you but they expect your best behavior.

Aka, they are real folk, lacking the intricate hates and subterfuges of city folk.

If you look city, odd, you are classified as disruptive, dangerous, and you will get the kind of reception you could expect. Life is different out there. Strange and deviant is not just a social mark, it is a survival mark. As in a negative one. Strange and deviant is dangerous and disruptive of the careful skein that keeps everything working and everyone alive and safe.

City Snowflakes get all butt hurt over it but only in a place like a city where life is managed by their betters and superiors and all food/water/power/ even transportation is provided by others can such deviancy find fertile ground to prosper.

Until you've been chest deep in a fast flow in mud during a major rainstorm digging out drainage to save a critical road for you and your neighbors do you understand the kind of solidarity and strength and communal good will that Rural Folk have for each other.

The men were digging, the teens were digging, the women and girls were on station to bring hot drinks and help clean up the men as they worked in shifts.

Or how about fighting a rural fire to save you and yours and your neighbors because by the time the county or forestry folk get there everyone would have lost everything.

Yeah, I've done both. The hills have eyes folks are rural rejects, ejected from the proper rural society they form their own genetically deviant communes. No, I am not joking. These gene-deviants are disgusting to me. Yes I am a genetic supremacist.
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Old 07-01-2016, 11:27 PM
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interesting . so are you TOTALLY self dependant yet ?
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Old 07-04-2016, 8:37 AM
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Great post. Wish I had the cajones to make a move like this. I'm just a suburban city boy though.
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Old 07-08-2016, 9:20 AM
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My wife & i have moved to a rural community 6 months ago . i personally amazed by the great people that have helped us & taught us so much in just a short amount of time. It was the riskiest thing we could ever imagine doing. we both walked away from alot .
Things are different .there is money to be made . Not alot but enough to keep the bills paid the dogs fed. I wouldnt change it for the world .we are on grid witch helps.
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Old 07-08-2016, 9:35 AM
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Good read! Thanks for doing it and reporting it in for us!

One of these days I'll be able to do something like that....even if it's living off the grid for a week.
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Old 07-08-2016, 11:11 AM
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You're living my dream. I would like to live off grid, but within 15 miles of a decent sized city.

Please send more updates.
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Old 07-08-2016, 11:31 AM
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You're living my dream. I would like to live off grid, but within 15 miles of a decent sized city.

Please send more updates.

You're probably going to have to be farther than that for off grid living. Make it 30 and you're better off.
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Old 07-08-2016, 12:55 PM
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Saw this cooperation last winter. We had 90mph winds after 2 weeks of rain. All the ground was soaked and the HUGE 100yr/old trees toppled over. The trees broke everything from power to roads. All the folks on my country lane came out the next day and started cutting trees. We had 7 guys to a tree (big trees) all running large chainsaws. We got the trees chopped up real quick and cleared the roads. The power didnt come back for 10 days but all the folks here were ready and had gens and food. No problems at all.

The one big city lady here didnt come out to lift a finger to help so she got no help back. Driveway stayed blocked and she basically had to call for paid help 2 weeks later. She didnt get her driveway plowed all winter. She never comes out to lift a finger and gets none in return. She just doesnt get it.

Wife and I moved to a rural area and stayed for five years. Loved it and hated to move away but the job required it.

At first we were seen and ignored. Locals didn't know what kind of people we were. After a while of chatting at the diner or hardware store. People warmed up.

Volunteering to help others really opened the doors. I knew we were accepted when I mentioned a two man chore I had to do. Guy asked who was going to help me and I answered the wife.

"Oh, screw that. he said. I can be up at your place around 3:00. That work for you?"

If you want a good neighbor. Be a good neighbor.
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Old 07-11-2016, 8:01 PM
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Best thing I ever did to get in with the neighbors was to really listen to what they were saying about my property.

There were/are some flooding issues. I started clearing the drainage channel and was working for a few days.

The neighbor (family been there 150 odd years) was very appreciative and let me borrow one of his tractors. I made lots of progress them he lent me his backhoe.

Now I'm making significant progress on an issue that's been a problem for years and that impacts 5 families.

Now folks are offering to hay my field and are buying my extra eggs or trading for beef steaks, etc.

Show some humility and lend a hand ... this idea of self sufficiency is a myth. Good neighbors and a strong community are the way to go.
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