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  #1  
Old 04-11-2013, 4:16 PM
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Default .22LR Target Ammo

What are you guys using for your rimfire matches in .22LR? I have a Savage MKIII that I've been itching to get out, I still need to buy scope rings for it and for now gonna put a BSA scope on it that I already have.

I want to initially sight it in at 50yds and work my way up to 200yds but want to use consistent ammo.
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Old 04-11-2013, 4:23 PM
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You're going to want to try a few different flavors. Seems no two guns are guaranteed to perform best with the same ammo.

Try Eley, Lapua, Wolf Match, etc -- all the usual suspects making match-quality ammo.
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Old 04-11-2013, 4:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedrrracer View Post
You're going to want to try a few different flavors. Seems no two guns are guaranteed to perform best with the same ammo.

Try Eley, Lapua, Wolf Match, etc -- all the usual suspects making match-quality ammo.
Exactly. Get a little of each and try it. Just because wolf shoots like crap for someone and eley tenex works great for them, doesn't mean you'll see the same results.
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Old 04-11-2013, 4:35 PM
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Sounds good, thanks guys! I was assuming that people weren't taking junk Winchester White Box to their matches.
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Old 04-11-2013, 4:51 PM
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25-50 yds I shoot Wolf Match Target or SK Std+ (same ammo actually) exclusively in my Savage MKII BTVS, CZ UltraLux and Kimber 82G. 100yds I use Lapua Center-X (twice the cost of Wolf/SK) in the CZ and Kimber.
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Old 04-11-2013, 5:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Izzy43 View Post
25-50 yds I shoot Wolf Match Target or SK Std+ (same ammo actually) exclusively in my Savage MKII BTVS, CZ UltraLux and Kimber 82G. 100yds I use Lapua Center-X (twice the cost of Wolf/SK) in the CZ and Kimber.
I just checked out the pricing and wow! I'll get it on paper with cheap stuff then move to the good stuff to dial it in. I might actually have some of the Wolf match buried somewhere.
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Old 04-11-2013, 5:14 PM
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Did you find some in stock? Let me know, I really want to try a box.
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Old 04-11-2013, 5:27 PM
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Originally Posted by ExtremeX View Post
Did you find some in stock? Let me know, I really want to try a box.
No, everyone is OOS; but go to:
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/167...ead-round-nose
and click on "Notify me" and they'll send you an e-mail when it becomes available. I did that for a CMMG LPK a couple of weeks ago and got it for $70 delivered.
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Old 04-11-2013, 5:35 PM
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SK Jag
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Old 04-11-2013, 5:47 PM
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In 3position, sk and wolf make good practice ammo. A step above that would be eley match and center-x, good for local matches. While i havent been to any national matches yet, I would probably drop the coin and go to the eley and lapua test centers and find some good lots of eley tenex and lapua midas. Once you try at least wolf and sk, store bought stuff like cci, Winchester etc, all just seem like junk.
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Old 04-11-2013, 5:56 PM
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Well I'mm glad it's a bolt action rifle and I only have two mags so I won't go through it that fast.
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Old 04-11-2013, 8:54 PM
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Your gun will tell ya! Mine likes Wolf Match Target
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Old 04-11-2013, 9:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fast318 View Post
What are you guys using for your rimfire matches in .22LR? I have a Savage MKIII that I've been itching to get out, I still need to buy scope rings for it and for now gonna put a BSA scope on it that I already have.

I want to initially sight it in at 50yds and work my way up to 200yds but want to use consistent ammo.
Any ammo will do...shoot a couple see where they hit...then addopt . When I was shooting competition that is why we had 3 trial shots.
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Old 04-19-2013, 9:59 AM
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Default consistant ammo

the other post naming all the best names in ammunition are good choices. most consistent I have found is Elley black box. Cheaper than Tennex and the same results. You can make your own consistent ammo with an hour or two of time and three tools: a rim gauge (from champions choice tennessee) a caliper gauge and scale from harbor freight. Then buy mid range quality target ammo like standard plus (same as wolf match but less money) or Elley Club or cheaper bulk ammo then sort your ammunition by size of rim, length of bullet (most critical measurement according to the guys who shoot for money at the Compton Gun club) and weight. Get your ammo sorted so it is all the same or within a 5% to 10% tolerance of these measurement categories and you will have top grade match ammo. That is what the manufacturers do, all the ammo is manufactured on the same machines, primer, powder, bullet and lubrication is all that varies. That is why you want to start with better grade ammo (I use the Standard Plus or Elley Club) that way you get the best of everything and end up with $25 a box stuff for $7 a box cost. good luck with 200 yards that is a long way for rimfire ammo to be consistent. there are programs at the optics manufacturers websites that can help you calculate the trajectory or your ammo.
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Old 04-19-2013, 1:47 PM
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I use three different type of ammo based on distance.

At 50' and 75' I use Federal Automatch, at 50 yards and 50 meters I'll use SK Standard, Wolf Match or Eley Club. At 100 yards (and beyond) I find that the ammo will vary considerably on environmental factors. For example, if there's a lot of wind my Eley Team, Match or even Tenex opens up considerably where my Federal Automatch actually holds pretty solid. I've never tried the hyper velocity stuff so I can't comment on that but from what I've seen out of other rifles they can be very dicey in match rifles at 100 yards. Then again, I don't think I've ever seen match or 'target' labeled ammo run at high/hyper velocity speeds.
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Old 04-19-2013, 11:18 PM
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Originally Posted by jwentzel View Post
most consistent I have found is Elley black box. Cheaper than Tennex and the same results.
Eley black is actually Tenex. 'Black' just happens to be the sorted bunch that didn't make it to Tenex standards. But how this stuff is sorted is through sample batches within entire lots. What this means is it is entirely possible the samples don't entirely represent the consistency of the rest of the lot which could be Tenex quality. That's why you can find batches of 'Black' that shoot just like Tenex, because it is just that.
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Old 05-20-2013, 7:19 PM
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I fired a few five-round groups and here's what I got at 50yrds:

Wolf Match- .5"
Lapua- .5"
Federal Bulk Pack- .5-1.5"
RWS Target (only shot one string)- 1"

I was very pleased with the Federal, most strings were an inch and often less. Next trip I'm going to move out to 100yrds, SBR&G can get pretty windy so lets see how it goes.

Oh, I almost forgot; I zeroed my scope in at 50 yrds with the Federal and the Wolf and Lapua shoot about 1.5" low.
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Old 05-20-2013, 7:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fast318 View Post
I fired a few five-round groups and here's what I got at 50yrds:

Wolf Match- .5"
Lapua- .5"
Federal Bulk Pack- .5-1.5"
RWS Target (only shot one string)- 1"

I was very pleased with the Federal, most strings were an inch and often less. Next trip I'm going to move out to 100yrds, SBR&G can get pretty windy so lets see how it goes.

Oh, I almost forgot; I zeroed my scope in at 50 yrds with the Federal and the Wolf and Lapua shoot about 1.5" low.
Probably because the wolf and lapua are subsonic, and the federal wasn't.
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Old 05-20-2013, 7:25 PM
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Probably because the wolf and lapua are subsonic, and the federal wasn't.
I assumed the target ammo was but didn't realize that it would have a POI that much lower at 50 yrds.
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Old 05-20-2013, 7:35 PM
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M happy with Wolf MT


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  #21  
Old 05-20-2013, 7:46 PM
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1. Anything Standard Velocity and Subsonic
2. Anything "Match"
3. That I can afford

Remington Subsonic
Eley Target
Eley Club
Eley Subsonic
Wolf Match Target (AR-7 Doesn't Like It.)
Wolf Match Extra (Will find out next month.)
CCI Standard Velocity
CCI Subsonic
CCI Quiet
Aguila SuperExtra Subsonic (Best bang for price versus performance.)
Aguila SuperExtra (Best bang for price versus performance.)
Fiocchi Standard Velocity
SK Standard Plus
SK Match

All can be had for 3.50 to 7.50 per 50/box.

Then what I do is before I shoot 'em - I sort them on a 300 gram .001 resolution digital scale from Switzerland.

Roughly for each brand and model - I'll sort into 5-6 groups that differ by .010 grams.

Doing that slightly improves results even further.

What has the biggest impact?

Going with Subsonic ammo...that makes a HUGE difference.

=8-)
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  #22  
Old 05-21-2013, 1:39 AM
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Local and Internet matches, I shoot just either Remington Golden Bullets or Remington Subsonics. I can get dime sized groups out of either the ammo and more consistency with sorting.

If I was ever to compete on a Regional, National, or International level, Eley ammo all day long. Eley ammo has been used to win more Olympic gold medals and won more official matches than any other ammo to date.
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  #23  
Old 05-21-2013, 11:35 AM
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Eley Match in the black box....

I have never had any of my .22's not like it.
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Old 05-21-2013, 11:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fast318 View Post
I fired a few five-round groups and here's what I got at 50yrds:

Wolf Match- .5"
Lapua- .5"
Federal Bulk Pack- .5-1.5"
RWS Target (only shot one string)- 1"

I was very pleased with the Federal, most strings were an inch and often less. Next trip I'm going to move out to 100yrds, SBR&G can get pretty windy so lets see how it goes.

Oh, I almost forgot; I zeroed my scope in at 50 yrds with the Federal and the Wolf and Lapua shoot about 1.5" low.
When you test different ammo, don't forget to send a patch thru the bore mildly soaked with bore cleaner, followed by dry patch between brands. Why? because they use different formulations of bullet lube. In testing my Anschutz, when I went from Lapua Center-X to Eley, the first 5 or so shots of Eley grouped large, then shrunk; it took a few shots to blow out the slick from the previous ammo.
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Old 05-22-2013, 7:40 AM
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FYI Wolf Match is made by Laupa, which is also the same company as SK. A lot of their ammo is identical in terms of velocity, just a question of how they passed quality control. If you hit the SK website and look for anything with the same velocity it should all do well in your gun. Then use Wolf Match Extra for the actual matches.
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Old 05-22-2013, 7:49 AM
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I know people say different guns like different ammo but I've pretty much tried them all. And all my guns like Wolf.

So if you were just going to buy some without testing it first I'd try to find Wolf.
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Old 05-22-2013, 8:18 AM
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I know people say different guns like different ammo but I've pretty much tried them all. And all my guns like Wolf.

So if you were just going to buy some without testing it first I'd try to find Wolf.
I tried Wolf Match....

...the Aguila SuperExtra subsonic embarrassed it at 25 yds.
...the Eley Target embarrassed it at 100 and 50 yards.
...the CCI Select (1200 fps) did much better at 100 and 50 yards.

...for all I know the Wolf Match Target was aiming for the non-existent Condor hovering a mile away. IT WAS THAT BAD

And here's the thing, like with the Eley, Aguila and CCI - I sorted the Wolf Match Target on my 300 gr digital scale. No discrimination took place...

My guess is Wolf Match Target is just SK Standard Plus which is just plinking stuff.

So I've order 1000 rounds of Wolf Match Extra hoping that it's the equivalent of SK Rifle Match - and that there will be improvement.

If it doesn't work out - Aguila SuperExtra, Aguila SuperExtra Subsonic and Eley Target/Club/Subsonic will be my mainstays for low cost precision shooting.

=8-)
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Old 05-22-2013, 8:20 AM
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Wolf Match Extra is the same as Wolf Match Target that's passed a second round of quality control. If the velocity doesn't fit with your barrel harmonics you won't see any improvement.
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Old 05-22-2013, 1:58 PM
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Wolf Match Target and SK Std+ are the same ammo per a member on RFC that visited the Lapua factory in Germany. The ammo comes off the same line and packed in different boxes. Like many match ammo choices it can still vary (and sometimes badly) between lot numbers.

Both ammos shoot the same in my CZ UtraLux, Savage MKII BTVS and Kimber 82G. I always try to get the same lot # when re-ordering but its not always possible so sometimes its a crap shoot.
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Old 05-22-2013, 2:26 PM
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I have a bunch of boxes of eley club that I haven't tried yet, so I'm going to see if I can do better than this


that's 5 rounds of remington yellowjacket at 25 yds with 10/22 and tech sights off a soft rest.

oddly enough, the federal bulk shot worse. I still have GB's to shoot for accuracy as well as rem subsonics. every gun is going to shoot things differently and even though it says "target" on it, doesn't mean a thing other than they take alot more care in product consistency and QC. but, modern factory machines are very consistent.

I didn't think I'd get that kind of accuracy out of high velocity type ammo.
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Old 05-22-2013, 3:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rm1911 View Post
I have a bunch of boxes of eley club that I haven't tried yet, so I'm going to see if I can do better than this


that's 5 rounds of remington yellowjacket at 25 yds with 10/22 and tech sights off a soft rest.

oddly enough, the federal bulk shot worse. I still have GB's to shoot for accuracy as well as rem subsonics. every gun is going to shoot things differently and even though it says "target" on it, doesn't mean a thing other than they take alot more care in product consistency and QC. but, modern factory machines are very consistent.

I didn't think I'd get that kind of accuracy out of high velocity type ammo.
The yellowjackets will still be supersonic at 25yds. Not sure at what range they will go below supersonic but that is where the accuracy will suffer. I have found that most ammo regardless of brand/velocity will be pretty accurate @ 40yds or less but HV ammo tends to loose accuracy beyond that point and sub-sonic will be more accurate than HV or Hyper-Velocity from muzzle to 100yds as it does not pass thru the turbulence created when higher velocity ammo transitions to sub-sonic velocity. Using Wolf Match Target my 5 shot groups tend to be .5" or less but it falls apart @ 100yds and I have to step up to Lapua Center-X or Hornady .17HMR V-max to shoot under MOA @ 100yds (and not every time and in still wind).

I would expect (but maybe not) the Yellow Jacket groups to double @ 50yds and triple/quadruple @ 100yds based on the group @ 25yds.

I have experimented with some Aguila Hyper velocity ammo 1450/1750fps and @ ranges beyond 50yds it groups like a shotgun. Tried in several different rifles with the same results. As always with rimfire ammo your mileage may vary.

Almost forgot. I know that Rem GBs get a lot of bad press but I also know folks who swear by it out to 100yds for minute of squirrel head. Just too many variances in ammo, rifles, pistols and environment to dismiss any ammo without in depth, extensive testing in each firearm. I personally have never had an issue with GBs but not match grade either.

Last edited by Izzy43; 05-22-2013 at 3:58 PM..
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Old 05-22-2013, 5:58 PM
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I found my 10-22 loves Wolf MT with these 50 yd groups. Regularly hit golf tees at that distance.



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Old 05-22-2013, 6:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianRodela View Post
I found my 10-22 loves Wolf MT with these 50 yd groups. Regularly hit golf tees at that distance.



Those are great groups (love those cloverleafs), that 10/22 is a keeper for sure.

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Old 05-22-2013, 6:06 PM
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Very nice! I have only shot bulk pack out of my bull barrel 10/22. If I didn't relax today instead of running errands I would've had time to go to the range tomorrow.
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Old 05-22-2013, 6:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedrrracer View Post
You're going to want to try a few different flavors. Seems no two guns are guaranteed to perform best with the same ammo.

Try Eley, Lapua, Wolf Match, etc -- all the usual suspects making match-quality ammo.
^ this ^

Every 22 is different, and even two identical rifles produced on the same line on the same day may prefer different ammo. Wolf Match Target is the cheapest ($50ish/brick) and most rifles seem to like it pretty well. Wolf Match Extra runs about $75ish/brick. Lapua Center-X runs about $100 or so, but some of the really expensive stuff is double that. Usually the best advice is to buy a 50rd box ($5-20) of each and see which your rifle shoots best. That may be hard right now because all of the match ammo got bought up during the panic.. Clean it between each flavor and then shoot 10-20 fouling rounds before shooting for comparison. Champion Shooters' Supply still has a bit of Lapua Center-X but only by the box (not by the case - change the drop-down box and it'll hopefully still be available). Champion's prices are pre panic prices but they do add a processing charge for credit cards and a shipping charge. They charged me $13 shipping for 2 bricks, and a week later $17 shipping for 3 bricks which is fair.
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Old 05-22-2013, 8:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Izzy43 View Post
The yellowjackets will still be supersonic at 25yds. Not sure at what range they will go below supersonic but that is where the accuracy will suffer. I have found that most ammo regardless of brand/velocity will be pretty accurate @ 40yds or less but HV ammo tends to loose accuracy beyond that point and sub-sonic will be more accurate than HV or Hyper-Velocity from muzzle to 100yds as it does not pass thru the turbulence created when higher velocity ammo transitions to sub-sonic velocity. Using Wolf Match Target my 5 shot groups tend to be .5" or less but it falls apart @ 100yds and I have to step up to Lapua Center-X or Hornady .17HMR V-max to shoot under MOA @ 100yds (and not every time and in still wind).

I would expect (but maybe not) the Yellow Jacket groups to double @ 50yds and triple/quadruple @ 100yds based on the group @ 25yds.

I have experimented with some Aguila Hyper velocity ammo 1450/1750fps and @ ranges beyond 50yds it groups like a shotgun. Tried in several different rifles with the same results. As always with rimfire ammo your mileage may vary.

Almost forgot. I know that Rem GBs get a lot of bad press but I also know folks who swear by it out to 100yds for minute of squirrel head. Just too many variances in ammo, rifles, pistols and environment to dismiss any ammo without in depth, extensive testing in each firearm. I personally have never had an issue with GBs but not match grade either.
Where I shoot they have various steel out to 100. All size plates. And so far I've had nothing but great luck with HV ammo. But I haven't grouped it yet beyond 25-50. That's something I'm going to have to work on. Right now I'm lookin for the best 25yd ammo to shoot Appleseed this summer.

As for GB's I like them. Last weekend my son and I shot a bunch with his new (to us) M&P15-22 and it ate them like a champ. No issues at all.

I'm going to do some 100 yd groupings soon with HV and subsonic stuff. Interested to see the difference.
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  #37  
Old 05-22-2013, 8:45 PM
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My 10/22 loves Remington Subsonic. Dime size groups at 50 yards all day.
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Old 05-24-2013, 4:14 PM
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Thanks Brother Izzy!!
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