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Survival and Preparations Long and short term survival and 'prepping'.

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  #281  
Old 07-17-2013, 1:10 AM
jason8055 jason8055 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scuba Steve33 View Post
The wound on his arm is characteristic from nearly all 5.56 wounds I have seen. If you agree that is 5.56 why is half his head gone? I already told you I have several pictures of guys hit with 5.56, including one who was stitched across the forehead three times and it looks nothing like the one in that photo. That looks much worse than what 7.62x39 does as well and why I said it looks like 7.62x51 or larger. Just because you only saw ARs in the picture doesn't mean someone with a larger caliber rifle wasn't present and made the shot.

Your entire argument is invalid since you admit to never having experience with the 5.56 and human targets. Don't take my word for it, I'm just an idiot with a keyboard. Take the word of countless combat vets and several high profile SOF operators, including ODD members Howe, Gordan, Shughart and others. Take America's deadliest sniper, Chris Kyle's (RIP) word for it than the round is weak and does not do a good job.

The "tumbling" effect simply doesn't happen. The round moves too fast and makes a very neat and clean hole in someone. Take your index finger and thumb and pinch your shirt. Pull it away from you and let go. That's what it looks like when someone gets hit with one. Think of how small the round is. It is moving too fast to tumble or create an extensive wound cavity. If you're shooting at 500 pound sumo wrestlers, I'm sure the round would start to tumble inside of them, but your average person (especially since the wars we have fought since the introduction of the round are against skinny people) simply doesn't have enough mass to get the round to do what it's intended for.

This, google the tumbling effect. The bullet does not start tumbling until its a few feet in something. And for that picture with that persons head blown off, is not a 556 LOL. Probably a .50
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  #282  
Old 07-17-2013, 5:19 AM
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During your so-called "shtf":

50% surrender immediately
25% more surrender once they are wounded/hungry/sleep deprived etc
15% are recklessly brave but quickly become cannon fodder

10% or less survive and thrive, due more to training, situational awareness, and ability to evade than to what sort of weapon they happen to be carrying. All of this speculation over this weapon versus that weapon is nothing more than a suburban fantasy mental fap-fest.
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  #283  
Old 07-17-2013, 8:46 AM
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I'll take the AR. I would think in a SHTF scenario, ammo will be easier to find as it is used by our military and police.
One might have 5 gazillion rounds of AK ammo but in a bug out situation, you can't carry it all.
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  #284  
Old 07-17-2013, 9:47 AM
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Default Just for fun, here's some extra cheese

You may want to do this to a Rem 870, 7+1 ----> http://www.bullpupunlimited.com


Check out the Ruger Takedown conversion----> http://www.agparms.com


Anyone can shoot these straight, right out of the box.
Stick a Ruger Mark 3 in your bag.


Just for fun, pretend this is a skinny bad guy, & try to pause it on the initial contact = pork milk --------> Bulgarian AK-74 vs Pork Shoulder ...

PS. "Just 1 Gun"....... Now that's just talking Crazy!
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  #285  
Old 07-22-2013, 5:55 PM
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AK no question. Less fiddly parts. More reliable. Proven. Hard hitting.
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  #286  
Old 07-22-2013, 10:03 PM
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The one I have the most ammo for my at since I have a .22 bolt drop in. So it's worth it for me. My AK goes to a friend.
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  #287  
Old 07-22-2013, 10:55 PM
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SKS - I don't have an AK ... yet!
Plus, my SKS has a handy bayonet for roasting meats and marshmallows.
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  #288  
Old 09-24-2013, 4:25 PM
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didnt read through but ak74 vs ar15 would probably be more appropriate
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  #289  
Old 10-03-2013, 7:48 PM
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My take is simple and driven more by emotion than by objectivity.
I will not allow in my home, or in my hands the firearm that has been responsible for sending more American service men and women back to our shores in caskets than any other small arms weapon is history. The thought of buying, admiring and potentially using such a weapon against our own citizens such as in a SHTF situation is just repulsive to me.
But that's me.
I accept that, for the same reason that it has performed so well in killing and injuring americans, the AK it is quite an appropriate firearm for maintaining it's excellent record and so, in that regard and viewed objectively, it would be an excellent weapon to prepare with.
I just couldn't do it and so I own an american designed DI weapon, as well as a .308 bolt rifle soon to be joined by a .308 battle rifle.
I'm sure others will find my perspective unique, but it's my POV.
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  #290  
Old 10-04-2013, 7:51 AM
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Default Enjoyment

I used to think that way too B!NGO.
And I'm set up like you are as well.
But.....ammo Prices makes 308 not so fun.
My high cal American rifles sit in the safe waiting to play,(except for my SG & 22's) while the AKs get out and smack down constantly.
You do want to have fun in life , right?
I dare say I like my AKs more than all my other rifles.
Simple, strong, cheapest to run, nostalgic, cool factor way up.
I kind of think of it this way; If I were the spirit from a soldier past, and the SHTF, I would want you to grab that AK that got me, Americanize it, then smoke all the bad guys possible in my honor.
Sorry, I'm very vengeful, sort of an "eye for eye" guy.
Let's hope we get through life without "SHTF" and enjoy shooting.
I hope this may change your mind so that you get the most out of shooting sports.
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  #291  
Old 10-08-2013, 4:39 AM
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Both will work. I have both. That being said I'm more comfortable with the AK platform, so I shoot it more often.

My AK is set up with a red dot great for sub 200 yd targets. AR is set up with a 3x magnifier makes taking longer shots much easier, the cartridge is more suited for longer shots as well.

In the current state of affairs for ammo 7.62x39 is much cheaper than 5.56 IME.
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  #292  
Old 10-12-2013, 1:09 AM
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Im all in with my ar. I have a fail zero bcg. I can shoot 5.56 &.223 its more likely to find one of those rounds than ak ammo. If its a katrina type disaster im taking pop shots to get away from bad guys. If its end of times stuff , I'll be waitting to take my shot to eat I want as much range as possible. If I was not conus ak. Just more ammo available.
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  #293  
Old 10-12-2013, 1:12 AM
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Oh thats a 20inch ar. On a 16 in you loose a bit of range
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  #294  
Old 10-12-2013, 7:34 AM
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Default Price/Availability?

XSEFAN

" I can shoot 5.56 &.223 its more likely to find one of those rounds than ak ammo. If its a katrina type disaster im taking pop shots to get away from bad guys. If its end of times stuff , I'll be waitting to take my shot to eat I want as much range as possible. If I was not conus ak. Just more ammo available"

I OWN BOTH, But.....
I can find 5.45x39 1080 rounds & 7.62x54R 880 rounds and get it shipped to my door for $200.00 each. All day long
It's harder to find bulk .223/5.56, and it cost at least twice as much if not more. That's if it's ever available
In a disaster, which containers do you think would survive it and be laying around?


OR--------------->
.223/5.56 =.....

Last edited by Russ Florian; 10-14-2013 at 8:12 AM.. Reason: wanted to be more clear on my point
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  #295  
Old 10-12-2013, 8:41 AM
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I look at this in a different perspective. Which ammo type are you likely to get/find in any shtf scenario? Well we all live in a country who's armed forces and LE uses 5.56. I think the 5.56 round will be a slightly easier round to scrounge up. Personally I will be using/carrying my Mini 14 post shtf day. The only reason I did not go with an AR platform is I absolutely hate bullet buttons. But that's just me, an old man who is old school.
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Last edited by marsdreamer; 10-12-2013 at 8:50 AM..
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  #296  
Old 10-13-2013, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve_In_29 View Post
Not planning on writing a book, or even anything more then what has already been posted. Which while still technically classified has been a very open secret for quite some time so no-harm-no-foul.

As far as my "veracity" if anyone is ever in the 29 Palms area feel free to look me up and I will dig out my old paperwork and provide my bonafides.

Wow, I would love to sit down someday for a cup of joe and listen! Thank you sir for your service!
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  #297  
Old 10-13-2013, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marsdreamer View Post
I look at this in a different perspective. Which ammo type are you likely to get/find in any shtf scenario? Well we all live in a country who's armed forces and LE uses 5.56. I think the 5.56 round will be a slightly easier round to scrounge up. Personally I will be using/carrying my Mini 14 post shtf day. The only reason I did not go with an AR platform is I absolutely hate bullet buttons. But that's just me, an old man who is old school.

Please correct me if I'm wrong! I was under the impression that a mini will not shoot a 556 round. At least if its chambered for a .223.
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  #298  
Old 10-13-2013, 11:12 AM
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I'd go with a AR platform just because of ammo availability since I'll be here in the US. Even Canada and Mexico fields AR platforms. I'm not planning on engaging a fire fight by myself or with a hand full of people. Don't get me wrong I've fired AKs before and nothing against them. If I was in the Middle East or any former Com Bloc country, yes I would shoulder an AK.
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  #299  
Old 10-13-2013, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by optimus-primer View Post
Wow, I would love to sit down someday for a cup of joe and listen! Thank you sir for your service!
You're welcome but the sit down wouldn't be very interesting. I said I could verify my bona fides, not that I would tell the details.
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  #300  
Old 10-13-2013, 12:18 PM
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Both are sound machines that have there ups and downs. Pick the one you like, buy quality, learn it, use it, use it more.
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  #301  
Old 10-13-2013, 12:32 PM
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Ak is more reliable, but if it DOES break, your pretty much screwed.

Ar is more likely to break, but your also more likely to find replacement parts.

Apple or Orange?
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  #302  
Old 10-13-2013, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by optimus-primer View Post
Please correct me if I'm wrong! I was under the impression that a mini will not shoot a 556 round. At least if its chambered for a .223.
My Mini 14 is chambered for both (580 series ranch rifle). I have Shot both and no problems with either.
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  #303  
Old 10-13-2013, 1:31 PM
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Originally Posted by tommyfly View Post
Ak is more reliable, but if it DOES break, your pretty much screwed.

Ar is more likely to break, but your also more likely to find replacement parts.

Apple or Orange?
If you AK breaks you can fix it with a shovel as spare parts.
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  #304  
Old 10-13-2013, 8:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tommyfly View Post
Ak is more reliable, but if it DOES break, your pretty much screwed.

Ar is more likely to break, but your also more likely to find replacement parts.

Apple or Orange?
LOL. Where will you be getting spare parts?

If your gun breaks YOU had better been buying and storing spare parts or else you are probably not going to fix your gun. You will not be getting into a firefight and then looting the bodies. You will get into a firefight and run away before someone investigates what happened.
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  #305  
Old 10-13-2013, 9:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marsdreamer View Post
My Mini 14 is chambered for both (580 series ranch rifle). I have Shot both and no problems with either.
I believe 556 and 223 have the same dimensions. The only difference is the leade, with the 556 having a longer leade. So you can shoot a 223 in a 556 chamber with perhaps slight loss of accuracy, but shooting a 556 in a 223 chamber could lead to pressure spikes.
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  #306  
Old 10-13-2013, 10:03 PM
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AR more ammo availible IMHO
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  #307  
Old 10-13-2013, 10:19 PM
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Originally Posted by whlgun View Post
LOL. Where will you be getting spare parts?

If your gun breaks YOU had better been buying and storing spare parts or else you are probably not going to fix your gun. You will not be getting into a firefight and then looting the bodies. You will get into a firefight and run away before someone investigates what happened.
or you could come across the remnants of someone else's firefight. Loot a house. abandoned military posts.

Who said anything about fighting? maybe ill trade some food for some parts.

AR's outnumber AK's probably 10 to 1. Parts would be much easier to come across.
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  #308  
Old 10-13-2013, 10:37 PM
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Default shtf ak47 vs ar15???

I own both and here how they really stack

Accuracy
ARs are more accurate but the AK74 will give it a run for its money. Meaning standard set ups and not some match AR

Stopping power
In FMJ surprisingly 5.56 has better stopping power against soft targets unless the 7.62x39 Yugo round is used. 7.62x39 will penetrate barriers better and in Soft Point or others has more stopping power then 5.56. The 5.45 is just as lethal as 5.56

Controllability
The AR is mush easier to control then the AK47 but the AK74 with comp and 5.45 is much easier to control. There are other 5.56 comps so thats even.

Reliability
AR are far more reliable then given credit for but not as maintenance free as the AK.

Weight
5.56 is much lighter but the 5.45 is about the same.

Ergonomics
AR hands down! all the controls are at your finger tips. You can drop a mag reload another and be shooting instantly. With the AK you have roll the mag and reach over to charge or control safety and unless your running BHO feature you will not know your empty until you hear the click!
Its almost like having a malfunction with every mag.

So it depends. If you want the best of both worlds a 74 or AK in 5.56 would be ideal.
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Last edited by 1lostinspace; 10-26-2013 at 6:01 PM..
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  #309  
Old 10-13-2013, 10:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bruce381 View Post
AR more ammo availible IMHO
True
But
Most
Still
Choose
AK!
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  #310  
Old 10-13-2013, 10:58 PM
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I'll take my 7.62x54r AK! Hoorah!
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  #311  
Old 10-14-2013, 1:06 AM
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I've got a lot of different platforms. If I had to escape I'd probably grab the Tavor as it's just easy to handle, or my AK in .223 with magwell adaptor to standard AR mags.

If I didn't have to go anywhere, it's .308 battle rifle time.

If I were doing patrols or recon, I guess you could say, short distance, I'd go with 762x39 for the better cover penetration.

.308 is ridiculously heavy to hump around, 762x39 isn't as bad, but .223 is where it's at when it comes to weight.

The obvious 223/556 will surely be the most common semi auto rifle round available. Everybody has a black rifle, that's just the way it is.
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  #312  
Old 10-14-2013, 7:59 AM
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Default EXACTLY

Quote:
Originally Posted by meaty-btz View Post
If you AK breaks you can fix it with a shovel as spare parts.


pssssssst!........do yourself a favor, get both

Last edited by Russ Florian; 10-14-2013 at 8:19 AM..
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  #313  
Old 10-14-2013, 8:42 AM
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Originally Posted by penguin0123 View Post
I believe 556 and 223 have the same dimensions. The only difference is the leade, with the 556 having a longer leade. So you can shoot a 223 in a 556 chamber with perhaps slight loss of accuracy, but shooting a 556 in a 223 chamber could lead to pressure spikes.
The Mini-14 is designed to use both...says so right in the owners manual.
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  #314  
Old 10-14-2013, 8:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marsdreamer View Post
I look at this in a different perspective. Which ammo type are you likely to get/find in any shtf scenario? Well we all live in a country who's armed forces and LE uses 5.56. I think the 5.56 round will be a slightly easier round to scrounge up. Personally I will be using/carrying my Mini 14 post shtf day. The only reason I did not go with an AR platform is I absolutely hate bullet buttons. But that's just me, an old man who is old school.

Correct
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  #315  
Old 10-14-2013, 8:47 AM
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AK for sure.
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  #316  
Old 10-14-2013, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gem1950 View Post
The Mini-14 is designed to use both...says so right in the owners manual.
Does the barrel say 223, 223 Wylde, or 556?
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  #317  
Old 10-14-2013, 2:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by penguin0123 View Post
Does the barrel say 223, 223 Wylde, or 556?
My mini-14 series 185 does not have markings on the the barrel, but on the owners manual it says its ok to use 5.56 and I've fired thousands of 5.56 ammo in it, no problem.

Cal. 223 is the marking on the the receiver behind rear sight.

Last edited by BOOGIEMAN; 10-14-2013 at 2:26 PM..
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  #318  
Old 10-14-2013, 2:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ Florian View Post
XSEFAN

" I can shoot 5.56 &.223 its more likely to find one of those rounds than ak ammo. If its a katrina type disaster im taking pop shots to get away from bad guys. If its end of times stuff , I'll be waitting to take my shot to eat I want as much range as possible. If I was not conus ak. Just more ammo available"

I OWN BOTH, But.....
I can find 5.45x39 1080 rounds & 7.62x54R 880 rounds and get it shipped to my door for $200.00 each. All day long
It's harder to find bulk .223/5.56, and it cost at least twice as much if not more. That's if it's ever available
In a disaster, which containers do you think would survive it and be laying around?...
That looks like .18 for 5.45, and .22 for x54R/ea.

I reload 5.56 for ~$0.16(40gr pulled vMAX), $0.18 (pulled 55gr FMJ), & $0.21 (pulled 62gr Steel Penetrator M855)/ea.
I got my last order for pulled 55 grain 5.56 projectiles in lots of 3000 for about $223/shipped.

I wouldn't even know where to begin for 7.62 projectiles, I haven't had to look.
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Last edited by the86d; 10-14-2013 at 2:56 PM..
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  #319  
Old 10-14-2013, 4:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BOOGIEMAN View Post
My mini-14 series 185 does not have markings on the the barrel, but on the owners manual it says its ok to use 5.56 and I've fired thousands of 5.56 ammo in it, no problem.

Cal. 223 is the marking on the the receiver behind rear sight.
Interesting. Quick google search indicated that the target version can only use 223, and the regular version can use both. It would be interesting to have a chamber cast done and find out what the leade spec is. I just know that if my chamber is marked 556 NATO, I'm g2g with both. Using 223 in a 223 chamber is better for optimal accuracy.
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Old 10-14-2013, 5:07 PM
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socom2shooter socom2shooter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HPBrowningMK3 View Post
aalvidrez, no disrespect, but do you want to put your tricked out modern AR against my plain SLR 101 Arsenal AK? Let's see which one jams first--FTF, FTE or any other failure. If you wanna put some money on it, I am game. 500 rounds at least.

$500 says it will be AR.
Ill put up my m1a up against any ar for that bet. Assuming someone else wants to pay for ammo
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