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Survival and Preparations Long and short term survival and 'prepping'.

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  #161  
Old 04-07-2013, 10:49 AM
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  #162  
Old 04-07-2013, 1:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aalvidrez View Post
Only thing I know is that no one is trying to recreate 7.62x39 ballistics
You might want to read the reason they came up with the .300AAC Blackout.
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  #163  
Old 04-07-2013, 1:40 PM
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Originally Posted by RuggedJay View Post
If thats ur logic, why not step up to a bolt-action rifle.
Single shot rifle baby!! Too many moving parts in those new-fangled bolt guns.
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  #164  
Old 04-07-2013, 1:47 PM
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Originally Posted by cantcme View Post
If you are going to argue wound effects of the two rounds you have to discuss bullet type. Fmj hp sp sst etc
It doesn't matter what type of bullet you want to compare. No matter the type chosen, the terminal ballistics will ALWAYS be greater in the larger caliber round. So going to a soft point to increase the effect of an AR is easily beaten by stepping up to the same in an AK.

There is some video out there showing the comparative effects of a FMJ, HP and soft point AK round on ballistics gel.
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  #165  
Old 04-07-2013, 4:59 PM
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I know that. I'm saying both are enhanced by expanding bullets.
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  #166  
Old 04-07-2013, 5:30 PM
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Originally Posted by cantcme View Post
I know that. I'm saying both are enhanced by expanding bullets.
Yes I got that they both are enhanced but my point was the 5.56 will still never equal the 7.62 no matter what the type. Each 124gr AK round is twice the mass of the 62gr AR round. Though I prefer the 154gr SP for my AK myself.
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  #167  
Old 04-08-2013, 2:31 PM
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http://www.survivalblog.com/2013/03/...or-ar-15s.html

This doesn't have to be a caliber war, you know. 300BLK upper, Carbine 5.56 upper, 22 lr conversion kit... 5.56 rifle upper... you can have them all, or have the ones you choose.

I don't know of an AK that switches utility and functionality so quickly, do you?
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  #168  
Old 04-08-2013, 4:42 PM
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Its amusing to me how many people attribute military experience and battlefield experience to SHTF recommendations... they are so far apart its not even funny.

I don't give a rats butt if you were a SEAL/Ranger/Sniper/Grunt or supply clerk... your experience in the military will not help you pick a proper rifle for long term survival or SHTF grid-down world.
Everything you know and were taught was based on a set of logistics that are not available to you in a SHTF grid down world.


I don't care how many fire fights you have been in... that gives you no knowledge of what a person in a SHTF grid down world will need.

In North AMERICA, the most common ammo, the most common parts, the most commonly issued rifle is the AR15...and thats what you need in North AMERICA during a SHTF grid-down world.

If you don't understand that...You really have no business posting in a SHTF thread. Its all make-believe to you and you hold no grip on reality.
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  #169  
Old 04-08-2013, 5:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kojac View Post
http://www.survivalblog.com/2013/03/...or-ar-15s.html

This doesn't have to be a caliber war, you know. 300BLK upper, Carbine 5.56 upper, 22 lr conversion kit... 5.56 rifle upper... you can have them all, or have the ones you choose.

I don't know of an AK that switches utility and functionality so quickly, do you?
Quite a bit of hardware to lug around and if the lower goes TU then all those uppers are just clubs. Simpler, lighter, cheaper and allows redundancy to just have an AK (or other rifle) and a separate .22 caliber rifle. Pre-frenzy you could buy both a Saiga and Marlin 60 for less then the cheapest AR. I bought that exact pair brand new for $550 combined (+tax/DROS).
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  #170  
Old 04-08-2013, 6:13 PM
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Your experience is not valuable. His lack of experience is much more valuable.
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  #171  
Old 04-08-2013, 6:21 PM
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In a SHTF scenario in the continental U.S., AR15 hands down. Relatively easy to find parts and ammunition compared to the AK47.

AK47is more reliable, but hardly anyone has an AK47 and the ammo isn't as common as a .223/5.56.

It's really as simple as that...
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  #172  
Old 04-08-2013, 6:31 PM
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Hey, where's that "Lighten up Francis" thing?
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  #173  
Old 04-09-2013, 9:31 AM
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Hey, where's that "Lighten up Francis" thing?
+1 He's been like that since the Doobie Brothers broke up.
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  #174  
Old 04-09-2013, 9:53 AM
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the new AR47 duhhhhhhh...or if you can afford it the AK15
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  #175  
Old 04-09-2013, 2:32 PM
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Originally Posted by mikenewgun87 View Post
the new AR47 duhhhhhhh...or if you can afford it the AK15
Not sure if you are being facetious but in case people don't know, there actually is such a thing. The LAR-47 from Rock River Arms is an AR platform in 7.62x39 that accepts stock AK mags.

AK15 would simply be an AK/Saiga/Vepr in 5.56.
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  #176  
Old 06-05-2013, 12:35 AM
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AR, simply because ammo, in a SHTF situation will be much more plentiful. U can only carry so much, but will acquire more along the way.
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  #177  
Old 06-05-2013, 7:04 AM
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Originally Posted by RuggedJay View Post
Let's see how many hits on steel at 400 from each???
seriously? The name of the thread is SHTF ak vs ar, and i can guarantee you 95% of the people here couldnt put rounds on a moving target at 400 yards on their best day. So this argument holds no water. As for static shooting, wouldnt be doing that in shtf anyways, so thats a moot point.
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  #178  
Old 06-05-2013, 7:21 AM
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If you're planning on rolling around or sleeping in the mud then yes, i'd say the AK is a better choice due to it's reliability. Otherwise, AR15 is a much better choice due to all the mags and ammo you'd easily find. AR15 is reliable as long as you take care of it and I don't know about you but even if I needed to rely on the AK i'd still clean it. Both rifles are good so i'd simply choose whatever I could.
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  #179  
Old 06-05-2013, 10:23 AM
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I've used both I choose the AR 15 over the Ak. Despite popular belief AK's do break down and they do have issues of their own. But at the end of the day a shotgun is probably the best because of the different types of ammo and also in a shtf situation your goal is stay under the radar and not get into multiple firefights. Pump shotguns are great for defensive use, offensive use and hunting that's why I like them better than rifles.
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  #180  
Old 06-05-2013, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gem1950 View Post
Best of both worlds (AR & AK) ~ Mini-14
or worst of both worlds in my opinion.
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  #181  
Old 06-05-2013, 1:07 PM
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Originally Posted by LCpl Kutches View Post
Considering that you are all referencing a 1960's or older AK-47, or a fully automatic AK-47 than yes.

My friend Ssgt in the Marine Corps lives today because the enemies chinese made AK-47 jammed.

As far as people getting shot with a AR-15, usually those guys who get hit should be hit by 1-3 rounds anyway.
They are at times on heavy drugs to keep fighting.

Considering your AK-47 heavily loses any accuracy to hit a target past 100 yrds, and can't sustain a long firefight I question this.

The AK-47 rounds weigh significantly more.

In a close range firefight that is compressed and needs rapid fire the AK-47 round is heavier.

A fully automatic AK-47 is devastating at close range, but can't sustain long fighting. Weighs more, is less accurate.

Give me a AR-15 any day. I can carry more rounds and be more accurate.
You have a few facts skewed, So please allow me to help out a little.

Ive had guys go down on a single hit, and had guys thats taken 4-5 hits to go down and stay down. Drugs had nothing to do with it.

Ive personally seen guys shot and killed at distances over 100m with an AK, and I personally routinely group 1-2 MOA at 200-300m. Accuracy is the person pulling the trigger, not because a FCG is sloppy.

As far as sustainment . . my longest running gun battle was 3.5 hours, plenty long enough facing AK fire as far as Im concerned.

yea, the ak round is heavier, its also bigger, makes sense.You saying that the gun is heavier, and hence is less accurate is totally off base. Not even sure how to address that one. My reccomendation would be to go look at a long distance range, most folks run a heavy barrelled rig of one shape or another.

Sure you can carry more ammo, because it is lighter, but that doesnt make you any more accurate. Accuracy is the person pulling the trigger. You can have a $7500 sniper rifle and a jackwad wannabe trying to shoot it at 1k, he more than likely wont hit. But you can take a trained shooter, give them a Chicom sks, and I bet the will repeatedly pull MOA at 500 all day long.
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  #182  
Old 06-05-2013, 1:31 PM
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when SHTF im def grabbing my AR15 chambered in 7.62X39 upper...best of both worlds...reliability and hard hitting
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  #183  
Old 06-05-2013, 1:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Stormfeather View Post
You have a few facts skewed, So please allow me to help out a little.

Ive had guys go down on a single hit, and had guys thats taken 4-5 hits to go down and stay down. Drugs had nothing to do with it.

Ive personally seen guys shot and killed at distances over 100m with an AK, and I personally routinely group 1-2 MOA at 200-300m. Accuracy is the person pulling the trigger, not because a FCG is sloppy.

As far as sustainment . . my longest running gun battle was 3.5 hours, plenty long enough facing AK fire as far as Im concerned.

yea, the ak round is heavier, its also bigger, makes sense.You saying that the gun is heavier, and hence is less accurate is totally off base. Not even sure how to address that one. My reccomendation would be to go look at a long distance range, most folks run a heavy barrelled rig of one shape or another.

Sure you can carry more ammo, because it is lighter, but that doesnt make you any more accurate. Accuracy is the person pulling the trigger. You can have a $7500 sniper rifle and a jackwad wannabe trying to shoot it at 1k, he more than likely wont hit. But you can take a trained shooter, give them a Chicom sks, and I bet the will repeatedly pull MOA at 500 all day long.
uh....
to a certain degree.
skill is the number one factor in survival.
but... having the right gear is crucial.
annnnnnd go look up xact system.
because of technology, you dont need as much skill.
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  #184  
Old 06-05-2013, 2:07 PM
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NOW the question is 7.62x39 in an AR...

Where does THAT stand on the accuracy scale?

Or the Mini-30?
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  #185  
Old 06-05-2013, 2:25 PM
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yup...the 7.62 upper is sitting on my ar 80% finished lower....all you need is a 7.62 barrel and bolt that will take the ak round and of course 7.62 mags...im running asc mag--had some issues w the mag but after break in she runs like a champ....and i cant tell you how important the bolt is on this build...i broke the original one i finally got a bolt thats using a special alloy that flexs in stead of other makers who make the bolts harder which in turn breaks easier....i got it from my local ar15 parts guy in sac who has a lifetime guarantee if it breaks i can exchange no questions asked...im putting this warranty thru the test now and she eats everything up...and yes youll need a reliable firing pin....the one that came w the new bolt resolved my light primer strikes due to wolf or thula ammo....runs like a champ....and got a muzzle break cuz the beast wanted to rise up after rapid shots...so far she only been in a indoor 25 yd range and just from that im able to get headshots w double bursts....i need to take her to 100yd range

Last edited by civic23; 06-05-2013 at 2:27 PM..
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  #186  
Old 06-05-2013, 2:36 PM
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I'm more familiar with the AR so I feel more confident on the AR
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  #187  
Old 06-05-2013, 4:01 PM
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Staying true to what the OP asked. I would carry my AR because most of the military and LEOs around here have AR's. As soon as something else ended up being more popular on the ground, I would pick that up and use it. I do not care about the "caliber wars" or "which is more reliable." I am all for what ever is on the ground. Parts and ammo availability all depends on what is on the ground.
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  #188  
Old 06-05-2013, 4:50 PM
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The whole concept of AR verses AK is ludicrous during a true SHTF scenario. It does not matter what you as an individual, plan on packing, in reality, you should be packing what your group is packing, be it AR, AK, or a Winchester lever action 30-30. The thought process that there will be 5.56 and magazines laying everywhere is well, just stupid. In a “true” SHTF, the gloves are off, there is no standardization, and even in a group, you are on your own (YOYO). You will pick up anything you find and use it and so will the other 350+ million people in this country. The only caliber that matters is the caliber the guy/gal next to you is carrying. Get over your MOA fantasies and your reliability fantasies, it will not matter.
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  #189  
Old 06-05-2013, 5:08 PM
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And away we go...

I think my next thread will be 9mm vs .45 ACP
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  #190  
Old 06-05-2013, 5:17 PM
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And away we go...

I think my next thread will be 9mm vs .45 ACP
Don't even get me started on that, lol
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  #191  
Old 06-05-2013, 5:26 PM
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AK gas system using 556 caliber and M 16 mags! Pete

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  #192  
Old 06-07-2013, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelthetrojan View Post
uh....
to a certain degree.
skill is the number one factor in survival.
but... having the right gear is crucial.
annnnnnd go look up xact system.
because of technology, you dont need as much skill.
I agree fully, skill is the number one factor, and you are correct, the right gear is extremely crucial, having winter survival gear in the desert or vice versa, limits your survivability.

BUT. . .the Xact System is pretty cost prohibitive. You are talking $22,000.00 for the base system. http://tracking-point.com/apply-now I dont know anyone on this board who is willing to drop 22k out of their shooting budget just for a scope that gives you hits on target, when you can spend half that amount on a good rifle system and a long distance shooting course and do the same thing. Once again, training is paramount. And in the OP's context, if SHTF, what happens when you run out of batteries for that scope? Availability will obviously be limited, so the 22k scope becomes useless at that point except to use the lens to start a fire with maybe?
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  #193  
Old 06-09-2013, 7:49 PM
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Originally Posted by sholling View Post
This because no bullet button. In most non TEOTWAWKI scenarios order will be restored at some point and it's no fun to go to prison for a few years as your reward for surviving food riots.
correct me if im wrong, but could you argue the necessity defense if it came down to it?
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  #194  
Old 06-09-2013, 8:54 PM
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In the next hour or so I will be starting a thrilling and thought provoking thread, sure to illicit 100's of passionate and opinionated responses:

"What is your favorite color?"
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  #195  
Old 06-09-2013, 8:54 PM
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In the next hour or so I will be starting a thrilling and thought provoking thread, sure to illicit 100's of passionate and opinionated responses:

"What is your favorite color?"
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  #196  
Old 06-10-2013, 9:04 AM
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My Saiga 762 w/ PA RD with wolf HP ammo is my SHTF I've never had any kind of reliability issue over 2k rounds out the barrel. <3
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  #197  
Old 06-10-2013, 9:26 AM
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I think Bravo company's dirty ar-15 rifle test has more than proven the ar-15. I mean 86,000 rounds without cleaning, really!

If you want to hit anything bring the AR. If you want to pound nails with the butt of the rifle bring the AK.

Try to drop 4 bad guys at 12-25 yds in 1.5 seconds with an AK
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  #198  
Old 06-10-2013, 9:54 AM
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If you like that bcg you would Love the JP full mass bcg with cpq. The spikes compared to the JP is like comparing a cessna to an F16.



Quote:
Originally Posted by adrenaline View Post
I have both. I trust both.

In my DI AR, I've replaced the BCG with a Nickel Boron one. Tested it with 200 rounds dry. It is easier to keep clean after every range trip so I am guessing that translates to post-SHTF as well.



While I'd pickup the AK, my wife or older son would grab the AR. So.....I don't see the concern.

Last edited by problemchild; 06-10-2013 at 9:58 AM..
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  #199  
Old 06-10-2013, 1:09 PM
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Originally Posted by problemchild View Post
If you like that bcg you would Love the JP full mass bcg with cpq. The spikes compared to the JP is like comparing a cessna to an F16.

Is that full-mass, or mostly-full-mass? More dense?

It looks like the milled out bottom portion of the BCG in the pic you posted is milled past the milling on the top of BCG, unlike the Spikes, or R-guns Nickel Boron, and wouldn't trip a FA sear.
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Old 06-10-2013, 1:54 PM
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Test:

Grab some Dog poo and smear it inside the actions of an AR-15 and an AK-47...

-Now shoot 30 rounds.

Which one would you rather have when the air is thick with excrement being projected through a fan?

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