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Survival and Preparations Long and short term survival and 'prepping'.

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  #121  
Old 03-31-2013, 7:54 PM
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Ill take my AR 15. When SHTF there is going to be more parts, ammo, etc. to find because of the popularity between military/ LE using them as well.
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  #122  
Old 04-01-2013, 10:36 PM
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so i built a ar with the ak round i did a torture test droped it in the swap **** muck and busted all 30 then in sand once again another 30 no problems i trust my rifle and would take it into battle until i kill some korens and take their aks hahahaha
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  #123  
Old 04-02-2013, 8:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Steve_In_29 View Post
The "black" part of SOCOM is actually what was around before there even was a SOCOM....snip....
Like I said, fascinating. You should write a book.
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  #124  
Old 04-02-2013, 3:59 PM
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Like I said, fascinating. You should write a book.
...no he shouldn't. Disregarding the veracity of any SOF claim, most of their activities should never be discussed except for some training and unclassified ops that can be exploited for PR.

1: Information can be pieced together to create a TTP picture that puts other operators at risk.

2: Information can be pieced together with open sources to create an intelligence picture of things that ought not to be made public.

3: Writing books on some of these things chips away at the aura of mystery and scariness that SOF groups can actually use to their advantage.

4(a): SOF and intel outfits are supposed to be "silent professionals", and writing books about how you're Ricky Recon or Billy Badass is neither silent nor professional. The only things someone should ever write pertaining to the specifics of a classified job (excepting certain unconstitutional/unlawful/immoral items that have to be exposed to be stopped) are reports of the appropriate classification level to your superiors.

4(b): The oath to uphold and defend the Constitution against all enemies F/D may or may not muddy these waters, but sometimes things need to be done in defense of the Constitution outside of the public eye.
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  #125  
Old 04-02-2013, 7:50 PM
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Not planning on writing a book, or even anything more then what has already been posted. Which while still technically classified has been a very open secret for quite some time so no-harm-no-foul.

As far as my "veracity" if anyone is ever in the 29 Palms area feel free to look me up and I will dig out my old paperwork and provide my bonafides.
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  #126  
Old 04-02-2013, 9:18 PM
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Originally Posted by kojac View Post
...no he shouldn't. Disregarding the veracity of any SOF claim, most of their activities should never be discussed except for some training and unclassified ops that can be exploited for ...snip.
Not necessarily disagreeing with you but you might want to tell that to:

Dick Marcinko (ST6, DEVGRU): Rogue Warrior etal
Eric Haney: Inside Delta Force
Charlie Beckwith: Delta Force
Andy McNab (SAS) : Bravo Two Zero
Chris Ryan (SAS) : The One that Got Away
David De la Billiere (SAS): [more SAS stuff]
The dude who killed OBL: No Easy Day
And the multitude of other DEVGRU and SEAL books
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  #127  
Old 04-02-2013, 9:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve_In_29 View Post
As far as my "veracity" if anyone is ever in the 29 Palms area feel free to look me up and I will dig out my old paperwork and provide my bonafides.
Ok I'll meet you at "the Virginian" on the corner of Adobe and Hwy 62 on Saturday night. I'll look like a biker but really in disguise.
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  #128  
Old 04-02-2013, 9:30 PM
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...no he shouldn't. Disregarding the veracity of any SOF claim, most of their activities should never be discussed except for some training and unclassified ops that can be exploited for PR.
as one who has served and gone on missions with the ODA team I worked with I do not disclose the missions I went on. I think of it as respect and not really wanting to tell people what I was doing in Iraq. did I have fun sure did. was I treated with the utmost respect that I have never seen since then yes I did. did I learn some cool stuff and shoot cool guns oh hell yes!!!!!!

I will cherish and remember the honor and privilege it was to be allowed to go on missions with them for the rest of my life. and it truly was a privilege and those guys are the best at what they do.


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Originally Posted by Stan08 View Post
Not necessarily disagreeing with you but you might want to tell that to:

Dick Marcinko (ST6, DEVGRU): Rogue Warrior etal
Eric Haney: Inside Delta Force
David Beckwith: Delta Force
Andy McNab (SAS) : Bravo Two Zero
Chris Ryan (SAS) : The One that Got Away
David De la Billiere (SAS): [more SAS stuff]
The dude who killed OBL: No Easy Day
And the multitude of other DEVGRU and SEAL books
and all of the above signed non-disclosure agreements too. IIRC their books were supposed to be reviewed before publication to ensure OPSEC or Classified material wasn't accidently disclosed to the public.

to each their own.
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  #129  
Old 04-02-2013, 10:42 PM
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Ok I'll meet you at "the Virginian" on the corner of Adobe and Hwy 62 on Saturday night. I'll look like a biker but really in disguise.
The Virginian isn't on the corner of Adobe, it's on the corner of Cholla Ave.
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  #130  
Old 04-03-2013, 7:53 AM
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There are advantages to both platforms, the AK & AR. However to simply say that the AK has more stopping power because it is a heavier round shows an ignorance of ballistics. That .223 or 5.56 round is hitting with 50% more speed and does some terrible things to its target. I have seen an x-ray where someone took a .223 round as a clean through and through shot in the leg through soft tissue. The shock wave of the round caused the femur to break.

Yes, you can pull the AK out of the mud, piss on it to clean it and it will fire. At least that is the legend, it may be true. Today's AR's are not the ones that our guys first dealt with in SE Asia. Pretty reliable they are, at least the factory built ones. I would not stake my life on someones home built AR until it had been fed about 500-1000 rounds.
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  #131  
Old 04-03-2013, 8:19 AM
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There are advantages to both platforms, the AK & AR. However to simply say that the AK has more stopping power because it is a heavier round shows an ignorance of ballistics. That .223 or 5.56 round is hitting with 50% more speed and does some terrible things to its target. I have seen an x-ray where someone took a .223 round as a clean through and through shot in the leg through soft tissue. The shock wave of the round caused the femur to break.

Yes, you can pull the AK out of the mud, piss on it to clean it and it will fire. At least that is the legend, it may be true. Today's AR's are not the ones that our guys first dealt with in SE Asia. Pretty reliable they are, at least the factory built ones. I would not stake my life on someones home built AR until it had been fed about 500-1000 rounds.
Im not sure about the level of stopping power ak vs ar. but ive talked to a two tour infantry veteran he says that a 7.62x39 will penetrate a wall way easier then a .223 can..
A 223 is accurate at a farther distance. imo it's like 9mm vs .45 in that aspect. Sure the 9mm is going to be more accurate and faster but that 45 is going to be devastating
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  #132  
Old 04-03-2013, 10:03 AM
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Steve, I'm not trying to make claim one way or the other on your history.

I was trying to point out to those who are SOF fanboys/girls that some questions are better left unasked and unanswered.

The veracity comment comes into play because about 95% of vets or those claiming to be that I've run into claim to have been SOF/recon/intel/super grunts.

I'm sure not everyone is lying, but I am also sure that most of the guys and gals who have participates in black/grey activities don't casually chat about them to strangers.
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  #133  
Old 04-03-2013, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by soulska View Post
love the AK, but I would have to go with the AR platform for SHTF senario. simply because if i happen to come across some downed military,LEO or civilian they will have both ammo and mags for me. That is also the reason I pick a 9mm as well for side arm.
AK for me and I would just take an AR and ammo from one of the dead above ^ if needed.
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  #134  
Old 04-03-2013, 5:18 PM
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As can be read from just about all of the posts in this thread, there's no right answer & certainly plenty of opinions. One can take into consideration a boatload of variables & come up with an answer that'll probably work just fine for them. Or, you can simply choose/use what you're comfortable with, something that you own/use the most & having plenty of ammo for.

Personally, I have a L1A1 & a Russian SKS for my choices. I'd like to get another AR to add to that, but that means stockpiling .556 ammo. I don't feel the need to try to get an AK47 (Or 74 for that matter) to add to my arsenal, but that's me. My choices may not be the best because they're both heavier weapons. However, I do have a decent .22 rifle, too. My choices work for me & I have a decent of amount of ammo for both.

Bottom line, use what you're comfortable with. By comfortable, I mean, which ever one is set-up to your liking (One that you shoot reasonably well AND has proven reliable). Of course, having a respectable stockpile of ammo for it should be part of the equation, too.

There are pro & cons for both platforms (& there are other choices, too).

If I was strictly answering the OP (AR or AK), I'd say AR, but again, that's me.
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  #135  
Old 04-03-2013, 6:02 PM
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Originally Posted by kojac View Post
Steve, I'm not trying to make claim one way or the other on your history.

I was trying to point out to those who are SOF fanboys/girls that some questions are better left unasked and unanswered.

The veracity comment comes into play because about 95% of vets or those claiming to be that I've run into claim to have been SOF/recon/intel/super grunts.

I'm sure not everyone is lying, but I am also sure that most of the guys and gals who have participates in black/grey activities don't casually chat about them to strangers.
No problem and I understand where you are coming from. It's amazing how many fake vets are found out because of their wildly exaggerated claims. None of them claim to have been a cook, supply, admin, etc it's always super grunt. LOL

I actually ran into that exact situation once out here in 29. Back when I was hitting the bars on a much more regular basis I ended up sitting next to a group of Marines that were with a civilian guy. As time went on I started to overhear some of the conversation and was really surprised to hear him mention his having been with JSOC.

I mean what are the odds of two of us sitting side by side in a 29 Palms bar, since (at the time at least) JSOC was a pretty small group once you dropped the operators (which he wasn't claiming to be) from the total. On top of that he seemed pretty young to have been a Sergeant which was the minimum rank they would assign (at least in my day).

So during a break in the conversation I pulled the guy aside and started asking him some pointed questions, to which he had no answers and on top of that didn't even recognize the unit crest when I showed it to him. At that point I ran up the BS flag and informed the Marines that the guy they had been buying drinks for all night was a fraud.

Needless to say they were pretty pissed. He had started a quick exit when he saw me begin talking to the Marines, so he made it to his car before they could snatch him up. In his haste to exit the parking lot he almost ran a couple of the Marines over. I never saw him in any of the bars in town again.

Near as I can figure he knew someone (dad?) that had actually been assigned to JSOC because he knew more then was common knowledge at the time but none of the actual minute details.
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  #136  
Old 04-03-2013, 6:10 PM
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....However to simply say that the AK has more stopping power because it is a heavier round shows an ignorance of ballistics.....
Actually it doesn't. While yes on paper 1+3 equals 2+2 that isn't the case in the real world.

As I posted earlier the TERMINAL ballistics bear out the bigger bullets are better concept. Hence the ongoing expenditure by our military of millions of tax dollars on stuffing a bigger bullet into the 5.56 round.
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  #137  
Old 04-03-2013, 9:16 PM
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Regarding the stopping power of both: There are bullets/loads in 5.56, when fired from the right rifle (1 in 7 twist) that are absolutely devastating, but 7.62 will punch harder and cause a lot more damage. The same stands with 9mm vs 45ACP. The actual wound channel differences are incredible even when all of them are FMJs.

I am posting this against the advice of my better half who doesn't want me to get involved in the caliber wars.

Over and out.
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  #138  
Old 04-03-2013, 9:19 PM
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AR, I could take mags and ammo from fallen DHS officers.
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  #139  
Old 04-04-2013, 7:50 PM
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I've not had FTF or FTE out of my AR even at 500+ rounds. It's the chrome lining of the bore and barrel. Would I prefer a piston sure but the DI isn't that bad. You can get a piston operated AR. that pretty much makes any argument/comparison mute. I fall back to nearly 50 years of service, longest in US history.
I guess you never heard of a 1911 then.......
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  #140  
Old 04-04-2013, 8:28 PM
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I own a few nice looking Ar's but I love my Ak as it was the easiest for me to load, point and shoot . I have to say it is the most reliable item In this catagory as I have never had a jam or issue with it. I know its range liablity as most people will quote, but I know I can hit just fine at 100 yards with it and that works for me. I believe in the KISS program (keep it simple stupid) so my choice would be reliablity everytime over beauty!

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  #141  
Old 04-04-2013, 9:47 PM
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These AR vs AK threads are full of so much FUDD, BS, misinformation, and outright lies, that I seldom get past the first page.

1888 commission rifle.....or an M41A Pulse rifle......either one.

With a Noisy Cricket for a side arm.
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  #142  
Old 04-05-2013, 4:22 AM
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Thats is why i have 2 of each. I have been able to find cheap ak47 ammo all through this panic though.
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  #143  
Old 04-05-2013, 5:12 AM
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No!!! You mean a Daewoo rifle.

No he meant galil
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  #144  
Old 04-05-2013, 5:14 AM
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Regarding the stopping power of both: There are bullets/loads in 5.56, when fired from the right rifle (1 in 7 twist) that are absolutely devastating, but 7.62 will punch harder and cause a lot more damage. The same stands with 9mm vs 45ACP. The actual wound channel differences are incredible even when all of them are FMJs.

I am posting this against the advice of my better half who doesn't want me to get involved in the caliber wars.

Over and out.
556 deflects badly thru hard targets, even softer ones like sheetrock. Ak plows right thru
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  #145  
Old 04-05-2013, 6:16 AM
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Well, a revolver is more reliable than a semi auto handgun....so do all the AR bashers only take a revolver into action?
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  #146  
Old 04-05-2013, 6:44 AM
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I own a few nice looking Ar's but I love my Ak as it was the easiest for me to load, point and shoot . I have to say it is the most reliable item In this catagory as I have never had a jam or issue with it. I know its range liablity as most people will quote, but I know I can hit just fine at 100 yards with it and that works for me. I believe in the KISS program (keep it simple stupid) so my choice would be reliablity everytime over beauty!
Ive neve thought of the AR as a beautiful gun. Its a very function over form design. What I'm trying to say is, theyre both ugly. If youre talking beauty, look at a high end custom made hunting rifle with carved wood and imported glass.
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  #147  
Old 04-05-2013, 6:48 AM
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Well, a revolver is more reliable than a semi auto handgun....so do all the AR bashers only take a revolver into action?

If thats ur logic, why not step up to a bolt-action rifle.
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  #148  
Old 04-05-2013, 7:07 AM
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Only thing I know is that no one is trying to recreate 7.62x39 ballistics
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  #149  
Old 04-05-2013, 7:15 AM
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I choose whatever I can get to first.
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  #150  
Old 04-05-2013, 7:40 AM
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Well, a revolver is more reliable than a semi auto handgun....so do all the AR bashers only take a revolver into action?
which is why i would have a revolver if my life depended on it.

On another note, I wonder if AR15 reliability issues arise from the fact that there are lots of really cheap ar's out there, that are just not very well built?
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  #151  
Old 04-05-2013, 7:41 AM
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You would be lucky to have either ! Love the reliability of the AK but go lug around 1000 rounds of 7.62x39 then pick up 1k of .223. Huge weight (and size) difference. Like some have said an SKS would not be a bad choice either.
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  #152  
Old 04-05-2013, 9:33 AM
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7.62x39 AR, or
Gas piston 7.62x39 AR?
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  #153  
Old 04-06-2013, 1:53 AM
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AR, that is what I train with. I don't think it matters much which platform you use, it's the training and the ability to clear malfunctions quickly that matters (that and plenty of ammo).

Both have the capacity for failure, I've seen enough stunned faces at the range.
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Old 04-06-2013, 4:41 PM
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If you are going to argue wound effects of the two rounds you have to discuss bullet type. Fmj hp sp sst etc
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  #155  
Old 04-06-2013, 7:36 PM
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Only thing I know is that no one is trying to recreate 7.62x39 ballistics
Ummmmm.....6.8 SPC ?
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  #156  
Old 04-06-2013, 8:05 PM
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I'll take one of THESE. Better than both! Thank you please drive thru.
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  #157  
Old 04-06-2013, 10:45 PM
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+1 for the AR it's more accurate at longer distances, less recoil equals faster target reacquisition, ammo weighs less (you can carry more), ammo is plentiful considering all of our armed forces run 5.56, plus there are more customization options. That being said it is my favorite choice of the two and if you really want the higher caliber you can always chamber the AR in 7.62x39!
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Old 04-07-2013, 1:39 AM
Lugiahua Lugiahua is offline
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the one with more ammo supply left.
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Old 04-07-2013, 7:48 AM
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I have both. I trust both.

In my DI AR, I've replaced the BCG with a Nickel Boron one. Tested it with 200 rounds dry. It is easier to keep clean after every range trip so I am guessing that translates to post-SHTF as well.



While I'd pickup the AK, my wife or older son would grab the AR. So.....I don't see the concern.
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Old 04-07-2013, 9:17 AM
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The only issue with 7.62x39 in a SHTF is availability, and a 5.56 chamber can use more plentiful .223 with reloadable cases.
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