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Survival and Preparations Long and short term survival and 'prepping'.

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  #81  
Old 03-27-2013, 4:38 PM
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  #82  
Old 03-27-2013, 4:53 PM
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Originally Posted by AleksandreCz View Post
That is true When I joined I specifically asked for an STG 44 but they didn't give me one
What part of SOCOM were you with?

I was with JSOC from 1981-83, which did get non-standard weapons, (though we had no choice in the matter) and our weapons were the MP5 and HK P7M8 with not an AR in sight. The Teams we worked with used quite a wide variety of weapons to meet mission needs.

The rest of SOCOM, despite falling into "special ops", is much more regular military in their organization and weapons assignments.

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  #83  
Old 03-27-2013, 5:21 PM
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And for the record there is nothing wrong with the AR that can't be cured with a few simple mods, i.e.: piston and .30cal cartridge. Though truth be told I MUCH prefer a straight stocked weapon over anything with a pistol grip.

IIRC the 6.8 dropped out of favor not due to money issues but to slowness in transitioning the round from a wildcat to a SAMMI spec'ed round. The Rem30AR would be a great round but with the loss of funding for entirely new rifles, if any new cartridge gets adopted it will most likely be the 300AAC as it would be by far the cheapest upgrade route for the military's current weapons. Due to the simple barrel change required.

I have heard some rumblings that the Marines might be trying to correct some of the ARs short comings and also get back into the full-auto for everyone mode with the adoption of the HK416 as the M27 replacement for the SAW. I have had several Officers kind of wink when comments were made about why the loss of suppressive firepower was being tolerated.
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  #84  
Old 03-27-2013, 5:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve_In_29 View Post
That's not proof of anything since (except in rare cases) they simply use what is issued to them.
Yes and no. In my experience most mil/LEO are not necessarily gun nuts who debate over coyote brown vs flat dark earth or surf the internet looking for gun debates like the rest of us here. The few samplings of SOF personnel I've met are true of this as well. I would venture to guess that out of a given sampling of cops, Soldiers and Marines you get about 10% gun nuts who read SWAT magazine and surf the internet, etc. We can be generous and guess that SOF may be a bit higher. So yes, they like most cops and non-SOF servicemen simply use the tools that they are given, clean them and turn them at the end of their mission, shift etc.

On the flipside, those in the procurement chain, and testing and evaluation at US SOCOM have a lot more at their disposal than non-SOF. In short, if there were a big enough problem with the legacy DI M-4, enough that they can say with empirical evidence is putting people at risk then they would have adopted something different. That did not happen. Rumors have it that the FN SCAR MK-16 has been set aside in favor of the M-4 block II. The big part is yes, budgetary because that pot of money comes from Big Army. The other part is simply that they feel they can make due with the legacy system because it's good enough.

Some of you out there know first hand the immense budget of SOCOM and the power of their procurement system. They can get most things they want. If they had a severe need to replace all M-4s with something else they would have.
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  #85  
Old 03-27-2013, 5:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Oliver_Charles View Post

6.8 was to replace 5.56 but the money isn't there. If we were in different times 6.8 would be standard issue.
The 6.8 SPC (special purpose cartridge) was never going to replace 5.56mm hence the special purpose part. It is/was a niche round which ballistically is great, giving you .308 ballistics out to 400m. For standard issue to US ground forces a cartridge like the 6.8 is not necessary as even in a fire team of four men you have four rifles engaging targets. Multiple weapons, fire and movement, fire and maneuver, and supporting arms defeats the need of a magic bullet that gives you (maybe) a one shot stop.

Replacing a cartridge like the 6.8 would entail replace every upper receiver, every single magazine, bolt, etc. etc. in the entire DOD inventory. That wont happen until something really monumental comes along. Just logistically unfeasible at this time.

So maybe for a smaller team that does not have all those luxuries 6.8 is the way to go for that niche. A cop on a patrol beat? Sure.

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SF team 5 has used them in every configuration including SBR and it rules, head chopper.
OK, who?
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  #86  
Old 03-27-2013, 7:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Stan08 View Post
Yes and no. In my experience most mil/LEO are not necessarily gun nuts who debate over coyote brown vs flat dark earth or surf the internet looking for gun debates like the rest of us here. The few samplings of SOF personnel I've met are true of this as well. I would venture to guess that out of a given sampling of cops, Soldiers and Marines you get about 10% gun nuts who read SWAT magazine and surf the internet, etc. We can be generous and guess that SOF may be a bit higher. So yes, they like most cops and non-SOF servicemen simply use the tools that they are given, clean them and turn them at the end of their mission, shift etc.

On the flipside, those in the procurement chain, and testing and evaluation at US SOCOM have a lot more at their disposal than non-SOF. In short, if there were a big enough problem with the legacy DI M-4, enough that they can say with empirical evidence is putting people at risk then they would have adopted something different. That did not happen. Rumors have it that the FN SCAR MK-16 has been set aside in favor of the M-4 block II. The big part is yes, budgetary because that pot of money comes from Big Army. The other part is simply that they feel they can make due with the legacy system because it's good enough.

Some of you out there know first hand the immense budget of SOCOM and the power of their procurement system. They can get most things they want. If they had a severe need to replace all M-4s with something else they would have.
The percentage of "gun nuts" has absolutely nothing to do with what weapons the Services will issue to a unit.

I do have a VERY good idea of the budgets involved as I was a plank holder in JSOC and saw first hand the money that was thrown at us and the leeway we had to buy and do pretty much anything we wanted.

The largest portion of SOCOMs manpower comes from what are essentially regular military units, the Ranger Bns and I believe now MARSOC Marines. Even the (non-Team 6) SEALs and SOF are essentially regular units when compared to the Black side of SOCOM. All of which do not operate solely under SOCOM and thus still have to integrate with their respective parent branch's supply system. Even SOCOM's budget isn't able to fund re-equiping these units with a second set of weapons that they would then use ONLY when actually under SOCOM commanded operations.

Only the units that fall under JSOC are under full time SOCOM command and these much smaller units are thus able to have relatively free reign (within some guidelines) to pick the weapons systems they need.

No one said there was a "severe need" to replace the M4/M16 family, merely that it has room for improvement. Which was being addressed by the ARMY/Marines in the SCAR program. That program was subsequently cancelled (after a weapon was adopted) due to the immense cost to totally replace every AR platform in the military's inventory when the war funding started winding down. Had they finished procurement testing 10yrs ago our guys would have already said goodbye to their ARs.
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  #87  
Old 03-27-2013, 10:23 PM
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If I can only take one weapon I'm grabbing the M1 Garand, the wife will have the AK-74. I have PLENTY of ammo for both, a good number of mags for the 74 and a metric buttload of enblock clips for the Garand.

My thinking is that on a two person team, one AK-74 and one M1 Garand is darn near perfect. The 74 will be useful for quick engagement of multiple targets within 300 yards while the Garand will be quite useful out to 500 yards and beyond, and also for turning cover into concealment.

Every bit of Garand ammo I would have on me would already be loaded in enblocks, no mags to worry about retaining or losing, the enblock ejects automatically and reloading can be done in seconds.
This is my same philosophy for any BOL location. Garands and 74s, a good combination of heavy hitting, long range .30 caliber and the lighter controllable 5.45x39.

Budget has played a big part in these decisions, service grade Garands are currently $650 from the CMP, and Greek .30-06 is around $115/200 delivered. So for the price of one M1A and ammo you can get 3 Garands and ammo. This is important if you plan on outfitting other members of a family, or have kids that will someday need good reliable guns of their own.
Budget also played a major part in going with the AK74 as well. I went with the 74 back when 74 ammo was very cheap, and as a result was able to stock a comfortable amount of 5.45x39
I put a lot of thought into SHTF weaponry and that is what I came up with for primary armnament on my budget. Now, I'd like to eventually get an AR-15 or two also simply due to parts and ammo availability post SHTF, but I personally don't feel under gunned currently with Garands and 74s.
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  #88  
Old 03-27-2013, 10:33 PM
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AR15.

Because on SHTF situation a 22lr is good as gold. Ar15 has the option for a 22lr conv kit.

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  #89  
Old 03-27-2013, 10:48 PM
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"22lr is good as gold" is true in a rifle or a pistol config in a shtf situation, no doubt. I always say " .22lr is a nasty bullet".
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  #90  
Old 03-28-2013, 1:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve_In_29 View Post
What part of SOCOM were you with?

I was with JSOC from 1981-83, which did get non-standard weapons, (though we had no choice in the matter) and our weapons were the MP5 and HK P7M8 with not an AR in sight. The Teams we worked with used quite a wide variety of weapons to meet mission needs.

The rest of SOCOM, despite falling into "special ops", is much more regular military in their organization and weapons assignments.
I was not a part of SOCOM Didn't in Serve In US Forces I did my time in the Russian Airborne. I worded my comment too Broadly in regards to what you want to use instead of what you get to use.
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  #91  
Old 03-28-2013, 5:34 AM
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aalvidrez, no disrespect, but do you want to put your tricked out modern AR against my plain SLR 101 Arsenal AK? Let's see which one jams first--FTF, FTE or any other failure. If you wanna put some money on it, I am game. 500 rounds at least.

$500 says it will be AR.
I'll put $500 on a shoot to part failure. You supply the quality ammo, no home brew or Olgas toe-nail crap.

We both start firing until a gun needs to be taken apart to be cleared. I know my AR can go into the 5K range before I need to pull the BCG.... been there done it many times.

You guys worry too much about an easy sports jam. The AR15 has been used in combat for over 50 freaking years... get a clue.

I know of a guy in a wheel chair because his M16A2 jammed and I know a guy who is alive because the other guys AK jammed.

The guys in combat are not seeing these catastrophic failures you guys are worrying about.

There are way more important things to worry about then an easy to clear random jam.
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  #92  
Old 03-28-2013, 6:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Steve_In_29 View Post
Things must have changed since I was in the Corps because even back in the hollow force era of the early 80s we had brand new in wrapper mags.
What rifle are you using that is giving MOA performance with that ammo? Unless you meant within 3" of POA which would be a 6" circle.
I am using a custom AR-15 with good reloaded ammunition. Just because factory ammunition doesn't give the same performance.

My barrel gets punched with a boresnake after every 500 rounds or so to maintain the accuracy.

I also have several people who own AR-15's and can attest to my AR-15 being one of the most accurate they have ever used, also one of the smoothest.

The Bolt Carrier Group is a m16, the trigger costs $350.00, but has a very clean brake.
The barrel has no brand, the lower I milled from a 80% and a few things have been smoothed with my buddy who has been a gunsmith for 20+ yrs.

I got my shots within a circle of about 6" inches. each shot 3 inches or so apart.

I practice with a Gamo Whisperer .22 Pellet Gun, transition to a .22 LR S&W M&P 15-22. Make some wind adjustments and Kentucky windage. Than I have ammo and can go out and really shoot, I use the .223/5.56.
I like the .22 because the wind affects it far sooner than a .223/5.56

Iron Sites are my choice, just because its simple and as I transition I will buy a M40 with a 1/2 Inch MOA I will have to use glass, yes I did use a RCO with the Chevron but that RCO in the civilian world costs $1600.00. Just the $3500.00 price tag on the M40 plus buying glass and ammo is going to take just a few more pay checks and money from my GI Bill to get.

And about the mags, they are ****ty aluminum mags. I can't be sure that they are specifically from the Army but we were told they we old army magazines that the Marine Corps basically got so deal with it and try to get some good ones.
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  #93  
Old 03-28-2013, 9:29 AM
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Even the (non-Team 6) SEALs and SOF are essentially regular units when compared to the Black side of SOCOM.
Fascinating. Go on...
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  #94  
Old 03-28-2013, 11:54 AM
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AK. If the thing needs to come apart in the field, the parts are bigger and less prone to getting lost. You'd be in some **** if the firing pin retaining pin in your AR got lost.
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  #95  
Old 03-28-2013, 12:03 PM
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Fascinating. Go on...
What didn't you understand from my explanation in the post you quoted?
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  #96  
Old 03-28-2013, 1:13 PM
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Having both is better than only one. I try to have many calibers

....ps My 74s 5.45 makes a big mess of meat. My sons 5.56 reaches out real far

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  #97  
Old 03-28-2013, 2:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve_In_29 View Post
What didn't you understand from my explanation in the post you quoted?
No, seriously I understood what you said, let's hear more of that part because it sounds interesting to say the least. What does this black part of SOCOM do? Capabilities?

You mentioned previously your team was armed with MP-5s and HK P7 M8s. Early 80's = cold war. All 9mm = within 100m and probably closer. I'm thinking Europe? Plain clothes or uniform? Did you learn to speak Russian?

Continue...
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Old 03-28-2013, 7:54 PM
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....I got my shots within a circle of about 6" inches. each shot 3 inches or so apart......
Sorry still trying to understand, so you are saying that your overall group size is 6" or that you shoot a 3" group on a 6" target?

If the latter that's a very accurate AR. If the former it's what I used to do with my issue M16 on the Rifle Range with iron sights.

At that distance my Saiga will put all shots within a 12" (chest sized) target but it only cost me roughly what your trigger did you. I am using an EOTech and multiplier though as my eyes aren't what they used to be.

Quote:
And about the mags, they are ****ty aluminum mags. I can't be sure that they are specifically from the Army but we were told they we old army magazines that the Marine Corps basically got so deal with it and try to get some good ones.
OK well I wasn't there so I will take your word for it. Perhaps your unit just scored some leftover mags in country (Marines never look a gift horse in the mouth after all). Were you with a Grunt Bn or a support unit?
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  #99  
Old 03-28-2013, 8:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Stan08 View Post
No, seriously I understood what you said, let's hear more of that part because it sounds interesting to say the least. What does this black part of SOCOM do? Capabilities?

You mentioned previously your team was armed with MP-5s and HK P7 M8s. Early 80's = cold war. All 9mm = within 100m and probably closer. I'm thinking Europe? Plain clothes or uniform? Did you learn to speak Russian?

Continue...
The "black" part of SOCOM is actually what was around before there even was a SOCOM. Which would be JSOC and the units it had full operational control over....JCU, Delta, SEAL Team 6, what was back then called TF160 (Army spec-ops chopper unit) and IIRC 1st SOW. We were "black" because we didn't officially exist nor did the missions we carried out. Later when we became an open secret we were still black because that was also how the budget was controlled and also due to missions NEVER (until Obama) being divulged.

We were (and I would imagine still are) plain clothes/very-relaxed-grooming-standards, which really pissed people off when I needed to interface with the Marine Corps for administrative purposes and showed up looking like a civilian. Though I heard that need was eliminated later. My operational chain of command went from a Army Major to an Army General to the Joint Chiefs.

We operated world wide and pretty much any place there was something going on where American interests were involved we had a team in place, though not always engaged.

I didn't learn any languages as I was on one of the support side teams that would accompany the shooters to provide real time communications to higher headquarters.

Not much more I can say since AFAIK I am still bound by my debriefing even though the Administration and several former operators have pretty much blown things open to the public.

I can say it was a VERY exhilarating time in my life.
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  #100  
Old 03-28-2013, 9:05 PM
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AR, but not for the reasons posted. More just cause I have a lot of ammo, spar parts and standard cap mags + 5.56 is more available. I agree that the AK is more reliable, I just don't have as much ammo for it.
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  #101  
Old 03-28-2013, 10:35 PM
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AR. It's lighter, easier to fire, more acurate and can carry more ammo per pound. If you have a quality built rifle, decent ammo and do the basic proper maintenance it is every bit as reliable as an Ak. If something was to break an entire parts kit including a BCG is lighter than the hammer your gonna need to fix your Ak. There are also millions of them in private and public ownership and billions of rounds of ammo.

I've seen both weapons platforms break, jam and not work for a variety of issues. Bad ammo, bad mags, broken parts, dirty, lack of basic maintence, bad design, etc etc etc. If you do your part and start with known good parts, treat it well, feed it decent ammo and keep it relatively clean there is no reason it should break, jam or not work for 10's of thousands of rounds.

If your firing enough ammo in a WROL or SHTF situation to break something in your rifle your doing something wrong! Your also sitting on a huge stockpile of ammunition for one gun!
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  #102  
Old 03-29-2013, 9:39 AM
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AK all the way
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  #103  
Old 03-29-2013, 10:43 PM
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No, you get your ammo and I'll get mine and let's put $500 each in an escrow with someone from CALGUNS and we have a deal. I have plenty of ARs and AKs in my collection and I shoot AR in HIGH POWER Competition, so I am NOT putting it down. I hope you get that. Precision? AR beats AK47 hands down. Reliability? Let's put the money on the line buddy.



Quote:
Originally Posted by dieselpower View Post
I'll put $500 on a shoot to part failure. You supply the quality ammo, no home brew or Olgas toe-nail crap.

We both start firing until a gun needs to be taken apart to be cleared. I know my AR can go into the 5K range before I need to pull the BCG.... been there done it many times.

You guys worry too much about an easy sports jam. The AR15 has been used in combat for over 50 freaking years... get a clue.

I know of a guy in a wheel chair because his M16A2 jammed and I know a guy who is alive because the other guys AK jammed.

The guys in combat are not seeing these catastrophic failures you guys are worrying about.

There are way more important things to worry about then an easy to clear random jam.
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  #104  
Old 03-29-2013, 11:30 PM
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I really love my Romanian AK underfolder, but I have several AR's and they just don't jam. I can't tell what the issue is with everyone else's AR's, but I keep going to the range or into the woods, plugging the bits together, pulling the trigger and... bullets fly out, next cartridges are loaded, yadda. (Now I've done it: next time to the range will be a disaster). Probably Randall's touch. He's done something to just about every one of my AR's, probably did a few things I didn't notice and the guns run better because of it.

To the OP's question: I'll bring both and tuck my SUB2000 in 9mm in a big pocket until I don't think there's any ammo to scrounge any more. If there's a chance I may be scrounging ammo, I bet that I would find more 5.56 and 9mm. The odds are decent for 7.62x39 in civilian stashes but who knows how often you're going to find that?

Oh, and those AK mags weigh a ton. Holy crap, I have a lot more respect when I see Afghanis with 7 or 8 loaded magazines visible. That gets heavy fast.
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  #105  
Old 03-30-2013, 2:12 PM
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something breaks on your ak which does happen regardless of the **** you read on the web. good luck fixing it. I have both and will take the ar. I can completely rebuild the ar15 not so much with the ak.
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  #106  
Old 03-30-2013, 8:48 PM
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something breaks on your ak which does happen regardless of the **** you read on the web. good luck fixing it. I have both and will take the ar. I can completely rebuild the ar15 not so much with the ak.
Right on. If an ak breaks u need a welding torch and other specialzed tools to repair. An Ar just replace the upper or lower.
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  #107  
Old 03-30-2013, 9:16 PM
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SKS. Cheap and easy to find 7.62x39 cartridge and it doubles as a club.
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  #108  
Old 03-30-2013, 9:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Hoologan View Post
SKS. Cheap and easy to find 7.62x39 cartridge and it doubles as a club.
^^^^^^I second that!
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Old 03-30-2013, 9:54 PM
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SHTF ak47 vs ar15???

Go to your local range and see which is more reliable. You will find your answer.
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Old 03-30-2013, 10:00 PM
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AR!
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Old 03-31-2013, 12:34 AM
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I think I typed a reply the other day, then deleted it because I thought it was dumb. So I'll reply today

The answer is, it depends. All things being equal, whatever you're more comfortable with. I actually am more accurate with my sks than my 223 AK, go figure. The AK is just more practical since I have mags and ammo for it.

I've never heard of Chinese AKs being bad. I have a much easier time believing bad ammo. The Mak 90 I had was way nicer than my Saiga, much as I want to like it more(although it is perfectly acceptable, just a cheap finish)
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Old 03-31-2013, 9:41 AM
Chameleon Loco Chameleon Loco is offline
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The cost of ammo is also a big deal. Before the ammo panic steel cased 7.62x39 was .20 to .25 cents a round while brass .223/5.56 was .30 to .40 cents a round that's almost double the price.
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  #113  
Old 03-31-2013, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stan08 View Post
The 6.8 SPC (special purpose cartridge) was never going to replace 5.56mm hence the special purpose part. It is/was a niche round which ballistically is great, giving you .308 ballistics out to 400m. For standard issue to US ground forces a cartridge like the 6.8 is not necessary as even in a fire team of four men you have four rifles engaging targets. Multiple weapons, fire and movement, fire and maneuver, and supporting arms defeats the need of a magic bullet that gives you (maybe) a one shot stop.

Replacing a cartridge like the 6.8 would entail replace every upper receiver, every single magazine, bolt, etc. etc. in the entire DOD inventory. That wont happen until something really monumental comes along. Just logistically unfeasible at this time.

So maybe for a smaller team that does not have all those luxuries 6.8 is the way to go for that niche. A cop on a patrol beat? Sure.

OK, who?
You get another +1... in the end its about how much it costs... the M16 line hasnt been bad enough to warrant a change. In fact its been between good enough to very good. After all, if you keep it clean and obey the tech handbooks it'll work for you.
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Old 03-31-2013, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by KON5T View Post
other than teething problems? so i spose trying to control 25000 insurgents in Afghanistan and taking 12 years to do it unsuccessfully would be considered "teething problems"?
You think its the rifle thats the problem? I mean this very respectfully...You need to be more informed... the side show if Iraq was a big distractor. Your mixing up the rifle with the politics... war is after all politics
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Old 03-31-2013, 1:10 PM
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Ha ha, the FUD in this thread is hilarious. Own 2 AK's, saiga .308 and a romy build, and have owned and built several different AR's, my current is a BCM.

My romy build is OK but my saiga conversion is awesome, with hand loads I can get 1 1/2" groups out of it with my burris fullfield, and I have hit all the way out to 725 with it. It is extremely reliable, but only with the factory mag.

If I could only choose one it would be my BCM AR. all the talk about the AK being more reliable is a bunch of Horse S***. I have put hundreds of rounds out of it and havnt had a single jam, FTFEED or FTFIRE. People that claim the AR is not reliable either built some POS and use sh** mags with it, or have never owned one and are just regurgitating BS they read on some forum somewhere. Clearing a jam in the AR is easy when you know what your doing, my Romy jamed so bad one time, a case fell back into all that open area and got jammed in the trigger hammer area and It took me like 10 minutes to get it fixed. I had to pull the trigger pins and remove the hammer and trigger to get it out.

Other reasons I would choose my AR:
The ammo is common, mags are common, and parts are common, US law enforcement and LEO use the ammo, mags and parts. Despite 7.62x39 being common, if SHTF, you can't just go to Wal-mart and buy more, and very little if any law enforcement use the round.

I have the .22 kit for mine and I would be able to use that for hunting or small game, or in defense in a worst case scenario, and I can carry 1000 .22 for the weight of about 200 7.62x39.

Don't get me wrong, the AK is great, and my saiga would be my second choice, and I wouldn't be butt hurt if thats all i had, but the AK is by no means a better weapons system then the AR.
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Old 03-31-2013, 2:09 PM
AleksandreCz AleksandreCz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoologan View Post
SKS. Cheap and easy to find 7.62x39 cartridge and it doubles as a club.
Yup I am currently tacticooling my Russian for SHTF a nice tapco stock and a dust cover with a scope on it.
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  #117  
Old 03-31-2013, 2:18 PM
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Don't have a AK, so it would be my AR's

Sent from a galaxy near you.
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Old 03-31-2013, 4:57 PM
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AR vs. AK, How about not getting into a firefight in the first place. If you remove the luxory of choice and I have to engage a violent attacker to save my own life, it won't matter one matter one bit if the round was placed in the center of the attackers chest. Who the hell cares which one is accurate at reach out and touch someone ranges. If you are that far away, I'm simply going to leave. if you are close enough to BE A REAL THREAT TO MY LIFE, either rifle fireing what ever you can get your hands on will do just fine.
As far as the reliablity issue is concerend, maintain either rifle properly and thats a non issue. I have put 600 rounds through my rifle in a single day of shooting and it never skipped a beat. when I got home I cleaned it, went back the next day and put another 450 rounds through it and narey a malfunction of any kind.
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  #119  
Old 03-31-2013, 7:37 PM
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Originally Posted by KON5T View Post
other than teething problems? so i spose trying to control 25000 insurgents in Afghanistan and taking 12 years to do it unsuccessfully would be considered "teething problems"?
I know someone has already replied to you, but this statement is infuriating.

As someone who has actually BEEN there and seen the problems, and been frustrated by them, I wholeheartedly resent your statement. The M16-A4/ M4 platform is entirely reliable and maintainable. It is more accurate than the AK systems, follow on shots are easier to keep on target because there is less recoil. It kills Taliban just fine.

The problems with the counterinsurgency efforts of the United States have been a matter of politics and commitment. In order for a counterinsurgency to work, you have to make the population like you more than they like the insurgent forces. That means a long term plan to make their lives better. Schools, industry, infrastructure, and security are all important.

Inform yourself before you denigrate the ability of American grunts to maintain and use their rifles.
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Old 03-31-2013, 7:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kojac View Post
I know someone has already replied to you, but this statement is infuriating.

As someone who has actually BEEN there and seen the problems, and been frustrated by them, I wholeheartedly resent your statement. The M16-A4/ M4 platform is entirely reliable and maintainable. It is more accurate than the AK systems, follow on shots are easier to keep on target because there is less recoil. It kills Taliban just fine.

The problems with the counterinsurgency efforts of the United States have been a matter of politics and commitment. In order for a counterinsurgency to work, you have to make the population like you more than they like the insurgent forces. That means a long term plan to make their lives better. Schools, industry, infrastructure, and security are all important.

Inform yourself before you denigrate the ability of American grunts to maintain and use their rifles.

i am resisting the urge to give this a further stir, and will remove my post.
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