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Ladies Forum A place for our female Calgunners to discuss, share and interact without the 'excess attention' sometimes found in online forums.

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  #1  
Old 03-17-2013, 6:43 PM
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Default Just had a visit from The Reason I Have A Gun - UPDATE

So, the young lady I rescued from getting beaten up by her ex-boyfriend last year just stopped by to let me know... that she got back together with him. Of course she did! And he tried to kill her again. Of course he did! And this time he got far enough with the project that he's now being held on a 51-50, so I can sleep peacefully for the next 72 hours. Yay me! And she's stopped drinking too, except for that glass of sake in honor of St. Patrick's Day that I could still smell on her breath...

I need to call the DA tomorrow morning and see how much longer than 72 hours I have before I have to put my head back on a swivel every time I leave my front door.

Last edited by eam; 05-26-2013 at 7:49 PM..
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  #2  
Old 03-17-2013, 6:54 PM
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Sometimes it's not worth getting involved in other ppl's business, but i commend you. Keep it locked and loaded. Good luck!
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Old 03-17-2013, 7:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eam View Post
I need to call the DA tomorrow morning and see how much longer than 72 hours I have before I have to put my head back on a swivel every time I leave my front door.
Ask them for a TRO on both individuals.

JR
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Old 03-17-2013, 7:13 PM
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I'd go tro also. And be aware.
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Old 03-17-2013, 7:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Dvrjon View Post
Ask them for a TRO on both individuals.

JR
+1

Sound advice.
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  #6  
Old 03-17-2013, 7:19 PM
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Thanks for the TRO advice, but I have a full-on protective order naming the guy.

I was subpoenaed for the last occurrence, and since the girl spent 45 minutes huddled in my apartment while we waited for the police to show up (in the middle of Los Angeles, in the middle of the day -- 45 minutes with the violent ex stomping around outside) she decided I was her new best friend and draped herself all over me in court while the guy GLARED at me. The DA asked if I would like to be named on the protective order.

Um. YES. Please.

On a related note... anyone know if there is ANY chance at all of getting a CCW in Los Angeles???
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  #7  
Old 03-18-2013, 6:27 AM
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You MIGHT be in luck. I have read that if you have an RO against an "active" threat you may actually be able to get one. Check the concealed carry thread or post the question there, I am sure you will get a good answer.

Scott
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  #8  
Old 03-18-2013, 10:52 AM
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Forget it man, walk away from it. Why get involved?
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  #9  
Old 03-18-2013, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hnoppenberger View Post
Forget it man, walk away from it. Why get involved?
You're trying to help me -- which I appreciate -- but I'm going to assume that you would consider "preventing the red-faced guy chasing a screaming woman from being able to murder her right in front of my front door" enough reason to at least open the door and wave the woman inside before her attacker reaches her.

And it's far too late for me to walk away. When the guy gets out and calls her again, one of two things will happen:

1. She answers the phone and gets back together with him, and the whole cycle starts again, or

2. She FINALLY takes everyone's advice and throws the phone away and moves to another state, at which point the guy will look for her -- and from her behavior in court he has every reason to assume that I am a friend who will know her new number and her new address (I am not and I don't) and he will come looking for me.
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Old 03-18-2013, 11:25 AM
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eam, I'm sorry this happened to you. To be honest, I would have done the same thing.

I'd like to think that most human beings would have grabbed the girl and yanked her inside to the safety of the apartment instead of letting her get murdered out on the front sidewalk. In those situations, one doesn't have time to consider if she's a dumb girl who keeps getting back together with an abusive ex-boyfriend or if she's a woman who is being attacked at random by a rapist or what. I know if I was being chased by an attacker, I'd be hoping beyond hope that someone would open their door and let me in.

The problem is that the attacker seems to think that you and the victim are friends or something. That makes sense considering he's obviously mentally unbalanced and cannot reason. You are probably now the target of one of his obsessions - you stopped him from getting her and you "caused" him to go to jail.

During the court case, was he there when you took the stand? He doesn't know that you were a bystander?

Ugh....I'm glad you have a gun now. Do look into the CCW and a restraining order against the girl too.

Best wishes for a safe conclusion to this situation.

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  #11  
Old 03-18-2013, 11:40 AM
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You don't have 72 hours. Hospital staff always believe the "patient" rather than the officer's description of monkey-flinging poo, bat-***** crazy at the scene. In my experience, most people get out after 4 hours to one day.

Get a restraining order naming him and have him served. Stay away from Lolita. She is PART of the relationship they have. She is damaged goods. Whether it's the makeup sex or the desire to "fix" a broken man, she learned, somewhere in her upbringing, that this is how relationships are supposed to be. She will not change. He will not change.

As to all of the folks saying not to get involved, I say you did what you had to do and hopefully you can look at yourself in the mirror in the morning. Cowering behind a door, listening to a woman get beat isn't something I would want to live with. Understand it has consequences, though.

If the guy tries anything, makes any comments, etc. call the police and demand at the very least a police report. Don't settle for a call # or CAD #, if they won't generate a case, ask for a sergeant.

Watch your back and good luck.
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  #12  
Old 03-18-2013, 11:59 AM
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a TRO allows you to legally CCW while it is in effect.
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  #13  
Old 03-18-2013, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saym14 View Post
a TRO allows you to legally CCW while it is in effect.
I'm not a lawyer and this is not legal advice, but I do not believe what you posted is correct. There is a defense to prosecution for carrying concealed, but it applies at trial, after arrest.
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  #14  
Old 03-18-2013, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eam View Post
..but I'm going to assume that you would consider "preventing the red-faced guy chasing a screaming woman from being able to murder her right in front of my front door" enough reason to at least open the door and wave the woman inside before her attacker reaches her.....

You are a good person and you did the right thing that day.
Faced with this situation, none of us know if the female being attacked is the wife or girlfriend of the attacker or a random victim targeted for rape or kidnap or whatever. I would hate too be the guy that did not open the door and found out some female was raped or injured by a random attacker after showing up on my front porch.
LAPD response time was 45 minutes. I wonder how this shows up in their statistics on 911 calls?
Good luck too you. keep your guns loaded and your doors locked.
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  #15  
Old 03-18-2013, 12:26 PM
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Nice thing you did for her!

Now it's time to keep yourself safe.

Good luck!
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  #16  
Old 03-18-2013, 12:41 PM
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You did the right thing. I can't see how someone could say stay out of it and let a girl get beat on your porch whether she is stupid or not. I would not be able to call myself a man and look in the mirror if I did nothing. People have lost their principles. Right, wrong, ring any bells people? Last I checked just standing by and letting a guy beat a girl to death is wrong.

Watch your back and your surroundings.
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  #17  
Old 03-18-2013, 12:52 PM
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Any relation to this thread?

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=726971
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  #18  
Old 03-18-2013, 1:02 PM
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Geez, I hope not. Here in West LA, it hadn't occurred to me that the guy might outgun me.

Strong relation to this thread, though: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=726961
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  #19  
Old 03-18-2013, 1:11 PM
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Again, you're an awesome person, and did what most people would have done.

That being said, unless its the same situation all over again, I'd avoid contact.

While it's possible to get out sooner than 72 hours on a 5150 hold, unless the person is VERY good at showing stability and sanity, that's not likely gonna happen.

Regarding the CCW, no, it's not likely unless you "know somebody" at the Local PD, Sheriff's, or city/county government who has "pull" to get the Local PD chief or Sheriff to sign off on it. It pretty much limits CCW's in LA County to current/former LEO or friends of the LASD chief, effectively.

NOBODY in LA County gets one unless its signed off by Chief of PD in the issuing authority. That's why in a county of 14+ million souls, there are less than a few hundred CCW's.
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  #20  
Old 03-18-2013, 1:23 PM
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When you talk to the professionals they will tell you the most dangerous call they handle are domestic. I am a Father and in my opinion what you did was the right thing morally to do. The down side is often they get back together to repeat as necessary until some one gets truly hurt. My belief is letting one side stay our of jail is foolish. On every domestic take both of them to jail I think it would cut down on taking him back.

I hope things go well in the future for you.
Respectfully,
Bill
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  #21  
Old 03-18-2013, 2:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saym14 View Post
a TRO allows you to legally CCW while it is in effect.
Any references to expand on this statement?

Make that TRO permanent and maybe get or borrow a dog for a late night noise maker to wake you up just in case.

Vick
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  #22  
Old 03-18-2013, 2:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Can'thavenuthingood View Post
Any references to expand on this statement?

Make that TRO permanent and maybe get or borrow a dog for a late night noise maker to wake you up just in case.

Vick
From the CA 2012 version of How To Own A Gun And Stay Out Of Jail by J. Machtinger (p. 47):

"You may carry a concealed and/or loaded gun if you reasonably believe that you are in grave (very serious) danger from a person subject to a current, court-issued restraining order in which the court found that the restrained person poses a threat to your life or safety. If you are tried for violating the concealed gun law and/or the loaded gun law, the jury will decide whether a person in your situation would reasonably believe himself or herself to be in grave danger."

So, as Patrick Aherne posted above, the protective order could be used as a defense at my trial -- but would not cause the police arresting me for carrying concealed to shrug and let me go.
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  #23  
Old 03-18-2013, 2:12 PM
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I just got off the phone with the City Attorney's advocate and they had not yet heard anything about whatever happend this weekend. The advocate is now talking to the DA in the original case and hopefully if something did happen this weekend, it will be a violation of whatever got him released after the last incident and might at least put him back in jail for a little while. They have promised to let me know.
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  #24  
Old 03-18-2013, 2:17 PM
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Originally Posted by eam View Post
So, as Patrick Aherne posted above, the protective order could be used as a defense at my trial -- but would not cause the police arresting me for carrying concealed to shrug and let me go.
Try for the CCW permit. I know LA is *extremely* limited, but an actual history of specific attempted/realized great bodily harm with an arrest, a DA-initiated RO, and a recent follow-on arrest will be difficult for the cops to ignore, especially so soon after Dorner. The standard is convincing, ongoing "clear and present danger", and this qualifies!

This isn't your run-of-the-mill TRO or "uncomfortable feeling", but an actual ongoing credible threat.

If nothing else, it'll wedge the door open a little wider for later court action. If you can't get a CCW permit and you want to relay on the "reasonable person" defense, carry a copy of the RO and the defense excerpt/code with you in case you are stopped. If you are stopped, the cops *may* decide not to bust you for it.

IANAL.

Last edited by warthog1984; 03-18-2013 at 2:45 PM..
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Old 03-18-2013, 2:26 PM
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Another case of:

DAMNED IF YOU DO AND DAMNED IF YOU DON'T!
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Old 03-18-2013, 2:37 PM
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Default CCW in LA?

I would NOT try to get a CCW in LA County and face a certain denial. Denials look bad on future applications for CCW's.
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  #27  
Old 03-18-2013, 2:56 PM
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If my wife were in your shoes, I would have her carry permit or not. Concealed is concealed, and I would rather her be judged by 12 than meet some deranged scum bag unarmed. Stay aware...
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Old 03-18-2013, 3:21 PM
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If my wife were in your shoes, I would have her carry permit or not. Concealed is concealed, and I would rather her be judged by 12 than meet some deranged scum bag unarmed. Stay aware...
While I agree with the feeling, a recent jury experience leaves me less willing to trust the judgment of 12: I was foreman on a domestic violence case and we had to hang because several of the guys on the jury refused to listen to the testimony of the witness who had taken the victim in and called the police. They thought this guy had "stuck his nose where it didn't belong" by getting involved in someone else's marital issues, which is to say, someone else's ability to beat up his common-law wife without consequences.

Seeing as that's exactly what I did... I can't trust juries anymore.
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  #29  
Old 03-18-2013, 3:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by missiondude View Post
If my wife were in your shoes, I would have her carry permit or not. Concealed is concealed, and I would rather her be judged by 12 than meet some deranged scum bag unarmed. Stay aware...
While legally I can't advise this, that is the thought in my mind.
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Old 03-18-2013, 3:41 PM
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You are dealing with two mentally ill people. Some suggest giving them weapons. This is nuts, get out of the situation before you are drawn into it criminally and lose your freedom, your property, or your life. This is way beyond 'doing the right thing'. The right thing at this point is go down to the police station and talk to a detective and let them know whats going on: Two mentally ill people who are violent, conflicting with each other.
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Old 03-20-2013, 10:38 PM
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I can't fault you for doing what you thought was the right thing. No one wants to see someone get a beat down. Unfortunately you learned what cops learn all the time. There are some women that seem to gravitate toward bad boys. It's like they're addicted to them. And when they get beat up, LE has to get involved and they become the regulars that you get tired of dealing with.

When I was in LE, it was always the samething. You get a domestic disturbance call, the people are always the same ones, you get there and she's boohooing about how he slapped her around, and he's gone because he's probably 647(f), and now deuce, because he's driving. Anyway he splits because he knows he's going to jail if he's still there, and now you do a 273.5 report and submit it to the DA for a complaint. Meanwhile, after time goes by, and he sobers up, he goes home and she calls trying to get the 273.5 dropped. Then when they go to court, she stands with him, the 273.5 gets dropped to 243, he gets put on probation, has to go to anger management classes and it's over until he's off of probation. Then it happens again.

Bottom line, it's a vicious cycle, and the best I felt I could hope for was they finally left my city and became somone elses headache.

It's a PITA for cops. It can lead to a whole slew of problems for the good samaritan. Especially if the "victim" suggests that maybe the good samritan did something to aggravate the situation.

Best thing to do in a situation like this is to stay inside, don't answer the door, and call 9-1-1. Beyond that, you're asking for more trouble than you can handle.
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Old 03-21-2013, 2:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Aherne View Post
You don't have 72 hours. Hospital staff always believe the "patient" rather than the officer's description of monkey-flinging poo, bat-***** crazy at the scene. In my experience, most people get out after 4 hours to one day.
I'm not sure where you got your information but it's not true. I have worked at a county mental health facility and there is more involved than that. We don't have all the information here.

That being said, the OP should watch out and be careful with the woman involved. I worked security at a "secret" battered woman's shelter and had the abusers show up because the victims called them or they would sneak off to visit them. Good luck buddy.
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  #33  
Old 03-22-2013, 8:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Shadow View Post
...When I was in LE, it was always the samething. You get a domestic disturbance call, the people are always the same ones, ...Best thing to do in a situation like this is to stay inside, don't answer the door, and call 9-1-1. Beyond that, you're asking for more trouble than you can handle.
^^^ Thank you for sharing your real world experience. I have never been in LE, but I have seen the people you describe. Mostly thorough large apartment complexes I lived in or places I have worked.
My only question is how do we know who is a victim of a boyfriend or husband vs. a legitimate victim of an attack by someone who is not a 'significant other'?
Is it always obvious which is which?
BTW, I did recently call the PD (NOT 911) on a couple having an argument on the sidewalk of a busy street. They were getting extremely verbal and I thought they were close too getting physical. I was very careful too tell the dispatcher exactly what I saw (no weapons or punches, just acting stupid). Hopefully, LE got there before things got out of hand.
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  #34  
Old 03-22-2013, 2:57 PM
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The guy must be a stud!!!
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  #35  
Old 03-22-2013, 9:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Aherne View Post
I'm not a lawyer and this is not legal advice, but I do not believe what you posted is correct. There is a defense to prosecution for carrying concealed, but it applies at trial, after arrest.
its in the State law. I have searched it before recently. dont have time to do it now maybe later. google find ca law and there is a search engine for state statues. its there. no lawyer required.
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Old 03-23-2013, 2:22 AM
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It takes one bad a** dude to slap his woman around and try to intimidate another woman who stepped in to help. I wonder if he ever picks fights with men?

P.S. The Victimized, daddy-issues girlfriend is a write-off too..
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Old 03-29-2013, 3:01 PM
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Eam you are a good man for taking action! Best if you never talk to her again. Good luck with this!
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  #38  
Old 03-29-2013, 5:39 PM
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blakdawg blakdawg is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saym14 View Post
its in the State law. I have searched it before recently. dont have time to do it now maybe later. google find ca law and there is a search engine for state statues. its there. no lawyer required.
See Penal Code 25600, 26045, 26405.
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Old 05-26-2013, 7:52 PM
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It's going to be a long night. I saw a homeless guy bedding down in a nearby parking lot and I'm pretty sure it's the guy against whom I have the CPO. He's probably outside the 100 yds -- though he walked right past my house to get there. But even if I call the police and it is him and he is within 100 yards... what will they do that won't just remind him I exist and piss him off? I'm not planning on leaving the house tonight and I don't know how much sleep I'm going to get. I'm very relieved to have Gunny in the house with me (yes, I gave my gun a stupid name).
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Old 05-26-2013, 8:14 PM
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Do you know anyone who can come over? I would call some friends, preferably some tough guys, and see if they'll stay over on the couch. Offer pizza. Anyway, you have the right to carry, and you should. Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6. Damn the torpedoes.
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