Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > SPECIALTY FORUMS > FFL's Forum
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

FFL's Forum For open discussion between FFLs and polite questions for FFLs.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03-15-2013, 5:52 PM
RA2012 RA2012 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 23
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default Private Sale shipped from FFL to FFL

Thanks in advance for your help.

In this scenario:

A private party in Southern California finds a private party handgun for sale through Calguns.com, the handgun and seller are in Northern California.

They agree to a price of let's say $2000.

The Seller in Nor Cal takes the gun to an FFL in Nor Cal and ships the gun to the So Cal FFL obtaining a DOJ Verification Approval Number in doing so.

The buyer in So Cal then wires the payment to the Seller in Nor Cal.

Questions:

Does the FFL in So Cal enter this as a Handgun Dealer Sale?
Does the FFL in So Cal collect tax?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 03-15-2013, 7:15 PM
halifax's Avatar
halifax halifax is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Mendocino County
Posts: 4,420
iTrader: 11 / 100%
Default

1. YES subject to roster
2. NO
__________________
Jim


Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03-15-2013, 7:42 PM
Fern's Avatar
Fern Fern is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: San Diego
Posts: 1,069
iTrader: 23 / 100%
Default

I could be wrong but I believe you don't have to send it FROM an FFL if the receiving FFL is OK with it. At least I overheard the FFL I was at, telling someone this over the phone. But I don't know if that includes handguns. Long guns for sure though.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03-15-2013, 7:48 PM
Toby's Tactical's Avatar
Toby's Tactical Toby's Tactical is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 239
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Anyone can ship to an FFL. It is not required for an FFL to ship but some FFL's have a policy of not receiving from private party. Just follow the shipping carrier rules. USPS will not accept a handgun from a private party. Long guns are ok. UPS or FedEx will take that handgun or long gun but probably charge more due to their policy of next day air for firearms.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-15-2013, 9:56 PM
RA2012 RA2012 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 23
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Thank you gentlemen.
It is greatly appreciated.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03-16-2013, 2:12 PM
kemasa's Avatar
kemasa kemasa is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Ventura County, CA
Posts: 7,085
iTrader: 5 / 100%
Default

1) Yes. As said, it is subject to the certified list unless you are exempt.
2) depends on whether you document that it is a private sale and an occasional sale. If not, then it would be subject to sales tax.
__________________
Kemasa.
FFL Transfer/Special Order Dealer since 1993.
Net-FFL list maintainer.

Never try to teach a pig to sing. You waste your time and you annoy the pig. - Robert A. Heinlein
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03-20-2013, 7:24 AM
RA2012 RA2012 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 23
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Thank you sir. Your time in responding is appreciated greatly.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03-23-2013, 5:23 AM
edgerly779 edgerly779 is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: canoga park, ca
Posts: 6,090
iTrader: 67 / 100%
Default

ppt exempt from sales tax. ppt guns do not have to be certified. And the seller would be a fool to send gun unless paid first. ppt can send gun direct to ffl.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 03-23-2013, 5:38 AM
halifax's Avatar
halifax halifax is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Mendocino County
Posts: 4,420
iTrader: 11 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by edgerly779 View Post
ppt exempt from sales tax. ppt guns do not have to be certified. And the seller would be a fool to send gun unless paid first. ppt can send gun direct to ffl.
A CA PPT is defined as two CA residents (or military with orders) meeting at the same dealer to facilitate the transfer, is it not?
__________________
Jim


Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 03-23-2013, 7:39 AM
kemasa's Avatar
kemasa kemasa is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Ventura County, CA
Posts: 7,085
iTrader: 5 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by edgerly779 View Post
ppt exempt from sales tax.
Incorrect as a general statement. A PPT would be subject to sales tax if a FFL finds the buyer/seller and/or gets involved with the purchase price. Also, it has to be an occasional sale for the seller in order to be exempt from sales tax.

Quote:
ppt guns do not have to be certified.
Correct, when it follows the procedures as defined as a CA PPT.

Quote:
And the seller would be a fool to send gun unless paid first.
Correct, unless other arrangements are made, such as dealing with a known FFL who will hold the firearm until the buyer pays.

Quote:
ppt can send gun direct to ffl.
Incorrect. A PPT is a CA term in which both parties go to the same FFL. There are requirements, such as the seller signing the DROS and the FFL checking the ID of the seller and swiping it through the card readers, which can not be done if the firearm is shipped. So, if the firearm is shipped, it is no longer a CA PPT and therefore it would be subject to the certified list. Yes, the firearm can be sent directly to a FFL, assuming that the FFL agrees to that. It is the option of the FFL to choose to not receive firearms from non-licensees.
__________________
Kemasa.
FFL Transfer/Special Order Dealer since 1993.
Net-FFL list maintainer.

Never try to teach a pig to sing. You waste your time and you annoy the pig. - Robert A. Heinlein
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 03-23-2013, 7:43 AM
kemasa's Avatar
kemasa kemasa is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Ventura County, CA
Posts: 7,085
iTrader: 5 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by halifax View Post
A CA PPT is defined as two CA residents (or military with orders) meeting at the same dealer to facilitate the transfer, is it not?
Yes, it is. This is something that many people miss and think that a private sale between two people is a CA PPT, which is not the case. A CA Private Party Transfer is defined in the CA PC and has requirements to be followed. Typically the requirement (not in the CA PC, but in another code section), that the transaction be submitted in writing is not followed.

A firearm sent is not a CA PPT.
__________________
Kemasa.
FFL Transfer/Special Order Dealer since 1993.
Net-FFL list maintainer.

Never try to teach a pig to sing. You waste your time and you annoy the pig. - Robert A. Heinlein
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 03-23-2013, 8:35 AM
American Standard American Standard is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: San Diego
Posts: 50
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toby's Tactical View Post
Anyone can ship to an FFL. It is not required for an FFL to ship but some FFL's have a policy of not receiving from private party. Just follow the shipping carrier rules. USPS will not accept a handgun from a private party. Long guns are ok. UPS or FedEx will take that handgun or long gun but probably charge more due to their policy of next day air for firearms.
The UPS depot where I live (San Diego) requires that I show my C&R license to ship a long gun.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 03-23-2013, 8:49 AM
kemasa's Avatar
kemasa kemasa is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Ventura County, CA
Posts: 7,085
iTrader: 5 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by American Standard View Post
The UPS depot where I live (San Diego) requires that I show my C&R license to ship a long gun.
Some UPS facilities make up rules. There is no requirement to show any FFL to ship a firearm. I had that issue with a person who was shipping me a firearm from Florida. I ended up talking to UPS Corp., and that person called the facility to educate them.
__________________
Kemasa.
FFL Transfer/Special Order Dealer since 1993.
Net-FFL list maintainer.

Never try to teach a pig to sing. You waste your time and you annoy the pig. - Robert A. Heinlein
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 03-24-2013, 10:05 AM
halifax's Avatar
halifax halifax is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Mendocino County
Posts: 4,420
iTrader: 11 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kemasa View Post
Some UPS facilities make up rules. There is no requirement to show any FFL to ship a firearm. I had that issue with a person who was shipping me a firearm from Florida. I ended up talking to UPS Corp., and that person called the facility to educate them.
LOL. I had an off-duty LEO attempt to send a pistol to me from OR. The guy up there told her she could not send a pistol to CA. He finally let her break it down and send it in three different boxes (frame, slide, magazines)...ALL OVERNIGHT.
__________________
Jim


Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 03-24-2013, 11:16 AM
kemasa's Avatar
kemasa kemasa is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Ventura County, CA
Posts: 7,085
iTrader: 5 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by halifax View Post
LOL. I had an off-duty LEO attempt to send a pistol to me from OR. The guy up there told her she could not send a pistol to CA. He finally let her break it down and send it in three different boxes (frame, slide, magazines)...ALL OVERNIGHT.
Such things are why it is best to push the issue instead of letting them get away with it.
__________________
Kemasa.
FFL Transfer/Special Order Dealer since 1993.
Net-FFL list maintainer.

Never try to teach a pig to sing. You waste your time and you annoy the pig. - Robert A. Heinlein
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 10:29 PM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2016, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.