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  #1  
Old 03-14-2013, 5:52 PM
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Default Feds no longer able to puchase non roster guns in CA?

I heard that according to the DOJ, Federal LEO's will no longer be exempt from the roster or the 1/30 limit. Can anyone confirm?
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Old 03-14-2013, 6:26 PM
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I'm not positive they ever could. I may be wrong but I think they (feds) would have to have been listed in 830.1 or 830.2 PC, which they are not. I haven't looked at every subsection though to see if they are even given any authority in Ca to enforce state law's. Not that I have ever heard of a fed attempting to enforce state law.
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Old 03-14-2013, 7:16 PM
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Same here... Feds cannot enforce state laws (traffic laws and etc..) I could be wrong thou..
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Old 03-14-2013, 7:31 PM
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Originally Posted by BoJackUSMC View Post
Same here... Feds cannot enforce state laws (traffic laws and etc..) I could be wrong thou..
Yep, you are.......
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Old 03-14-2013, 8:37 PM
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They had a federal peace officer exemption before....I've used it. Apparently, it was never written in but they allowed it anyhow.
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Old 03-14-2013, 11:16 PM
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Federal LE are considered peace officers in CA according to the penal code... forgot which section but there is one that talks about them like the way they refer to NV or AZ or OR LE when they are in hot pursuit across the border or out of state LE on official business or something like that. Unless that section has been deleted, it should still apply.
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Old 03-15-2013, 6:42 AM
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Federal LEOs are still aloud to purchase non roster handguns and still get the 30 day exemption.... Just did a ICE agent DROS yesterday
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Old 03-15-2013, 2:16 PM
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Apparently you have not seen title 18 USC 13 Ron?

The answer is yes they can.....however, agency policies usually restrict it to a federal nexus.
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Old 03-15-2013, 2:19 PM
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really?
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Old 03-15-2013, 2:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Unit74 View Post
Apparently you have not seen title 18 USC 13 Ron?

The answer is yes they can.....however, agency policies usually restrict it to a federal nexus.
Um, that's what I said. Most common example is USFS enforces state laws all the time. They can issue traffic cites and what impacts CalGuns members the most, is state firearms laws.
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Old 03-15-2013, 2:46 PM
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My bad... Thought you were validating the other guy's post.
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Old 03-15-2013, 3:31 PM
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Nope, he tried but missed. He added "I could be wrong...." Which is what I was referring to.

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  #13  
Old 03-15-2013, 3:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drewXD/G23 View Post
Federal LEOs are still aloud to purchase non roster handguns and still get the 30 day exemption.... Just did a ICE agent DROS yesterday
Great, thanks. EEE in Mission Valley was the source of info. I'm glad they're wrong. Most of the pistols I've ever wanted were/are off roster.
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Old 03-15-2013, 10:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Notorious View Post
Federal LE are considered peace officers in CA according to the penal code... forgot which section but there is one that talks about them like the way they refer to NV or AZ or OR LE when they are in hot pursuit across the border or out of state LE on official business or something like that. Unless that section has been deleted, it should still apply.
I believe are referring to 830.8 CA.PC that allows Fed Agents to exercise the powers of arrest of a Peace Office while in performance of their Official Duties.

In addition, Some District Attorney Offices have MOUs for acceptance of specific, type-limited, State enforcement cases generated from Fed Agents.

I've never seen 18 USC 13 used by the U.S. Attorney, as I believe that it refers to violation on Local/State Laws on Federal Property, (i.e. DOD Installations etc).

AR15MAN
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Old 03-16-2013, 7:01 AM
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Originally Posted by AR15Man View Post
I believe are referring to 830.8 CA.PC that allows Fed Agents to exercise the powers of arrest of a Peace Office while in performance of their Official Duties.

In addition, Some District Attorney Offices have MOUs for acceptance of specific, type-limited, State enforcement cases generated from Fed Agents.

I've never seen 18 USC 13 used by the U.S. Attorney, as I believe that it refers to violation on Local/State Laws on Federal Property, (i.e. DOD Installations etc).

AR15MAN

It's really depends on what the powers granted by the state say, and typically used on exclusive jurisdictional property in the DoD. However, When I am in Texas or OK, I have full state authority.

In AR, it's felony or above in my presence. In Cali, one of my academy brothers tells me all the time about stops he makes and scratched coupons under ACA. All our guys in Cali have to go to the PC832 class. Once done, they can make the stops and cite. But, it better be a good one or the boss is gonna look up from the paperwork and ask why you scratched the cite. They typically want to see some sort of nexus or public safety issue. I pitty the fool who busts out an equip violation.... He'll prolly be standing tall.
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  #16  
Old 03-21-2013, 4:58 PM
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I was talking to some of my fellow federal leo's and they told me their off roster orders were cancelled. They told me that their FFL informed them the AG came out and stated that since federal leo's are not recognized as peace officers in California they couldn't sell them the off roster gun. This sparked a debate at work on whether it was true or not.

Is there a letter issued by the CA AG stating such? I tried looking for it and couldn't find anything. If it exists can someone provide the link.
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  #17  
Old 03-22-2013, 1:56 AM
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I'll believe it when I see the letter from the AG..
There is a lot of talk but nothing to back it up..
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  #18  
Old 03-22-2013, 6:21 AM
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Technically, it's true though, since FLEO's aren't CA LEO's, they are not, by the language of the law, exempt from the roster. But the roster is a dumb idea anyway.

I don't doubt the AG would put something like that out though since Moonbeam did fire his parting shot about the RAW's before he left, and Kamala is not far from his political persuasion.
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Old 03-22-2013, 6:55 AM
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If the AG did put something out like that then the AG Opinion should be published. Just as Moonbeam did for his parting shot..Harris would do the same.
I would like to see that letter..otherwise it could be fallout from those deputies purchasing off-roster firearms and turning around and selling off the guns immediately.. There was a case for that..
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Old 03-22-2013, 7:45 AM
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Ron...you crack me up.
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  #21  
Old 03-22-2013, 8:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Notorious View Post
Technically, it's true though, since FLEO's aren't CA LEO's, they are not, by the language of the law, exempt from the roster. But the roster is a dumb idea anyway.
I agree on both parts, I was looking for some type of letter to confirm what is being said.
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Old 04-27-2013, 7:57 PM
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Unless it is in an official letter from the AG's office then the words of a DOJ agent don't mean squat..DOJ agents are like a-holes everyone has one..
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  #23  
Old 04-29-2013, 6:18 AM
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Per DOJ Director, firearm dealers CAN NOT buy Non-Roster guns, due to the fact that FLEO's ID's do not state that they are California Peace Officers, however they still have a HSC Exception! This will hurt the LE stores business.... However to all FLEO's please understand that this is the STATES doing not the LE STORES.... We don't agree with it but we have to follow it it we want to keep our FFL's
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  #24  
Old 04-29-2013, 6:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drewXD/G23 View Post
Per DOJ Director...
Is there an official letter from DOJ, or we talking he said/she said?
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Old 04-29-2013, 9:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rrr70 View Post
Is there an official letter from DOJ, or we talking he said/she said?
There has to be an official document stating such a fact..cause this is the old verbal agreement and it has been proven in court over and over again a verbal agreement doesn't mean anything..

Unless he is willing to write this and sign with his name it's all garbage..

Also the DOJ director doesn't have much weight unless AG agrees and signs the letter as the final authority..
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  #26  
Old 04-29-2013, 9:25 AM
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Just purchased from ProForce Sat. FUD!!!!

Glock 21 Gen 4

Last edited by SoulStealer; 04-29-2013 at 9:54 AM..
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Old 04-29-2013, 11:53 AM
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Let us see what information has been shared with FFLs.
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Old 04-29-2013, 8:08 PM
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This section clearly states that Feds are not considered peace officers in CA.

830.8. (a) Federal criminal investigators and law enforcement
officers are not California peace officers
, but may exercise the
powers of arrest of a peace officer in any of the following
circumstances: ...

These sections (830.1, 830.2, 830.3, 830.4, and 830.5) specifically list who CA does view as a peace officer.
830. Any person who comes within the provisions of this chapter and
who otherwise meets all standards imposed by law on a peace officer
is a peace officer, and notwithstanding any other provision of law,
no person other than those designated in this chapter is a peace
officer.

As far as we can tell, this is what the DOJ is using to prohibit the sale of off roster handguns to Feds.
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Old 04-30-2013, 6:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SRedmon View Post
This section clearly states that Feds are not considered peace officers in CA.

830.8. (a) Federal criminal investigators and law enforcement
officers are not California peace officers
, but may exercise the
powers of arrest of a peace officer in any of the following
circumstances: ...

These sections (830.1, 830.2, 830.3, 830.4, and 830.5) specifically list who CA does view as a peace officer.
830. Any person who comes within the provisions of this chapter and
who otherwise meets all standards imposed by law on a peace officer
is a peace officer, and notwithstanding any other provision of law,
no person other than those designated in this chapter is a peace
officer.

As far as we can tell, this is what the DOJ is using to prohibit the sale of off roster handguns to Feds.
Still waiting for the DOJ letter?? As stated above, just purchased from ProForce no problem. (Off Roster)

Until an official letter/document is provided still calling FUD.

Last edited by SoulStealer; 04-30-2013 at 6:44 AM..
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Old 04-30-2013, 7:41 AM
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We have the federal prisions up here in Victorville and Adelanto and I sell I off-roster pieces to to them all the time. Before every sale I do call the CaDoJ to make sure the flavor of the week has not changed.
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Old 04-30-2013, 7:49 AM
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I need some input. Down in SanBernadino county the Sheriff at the time Penrod removed the authority of BLM to enforce california laws. There was a big row over grazing leases and such and the Sheriff stood on the side of the cattle grazers. I don't know if that is still in force but if they wanted to write state violations they had to call a Deputy Sheriff.

I just had lunch with a corrections officer at the state facility in Susanville and they are not allowed to buy off roster according to him.
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Old 04-30-2013, 8:32 AM
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Sheriff Gary Penrod did in fact remove the law enforcement and arrest powers of the BLM within the county. It is a long story but the nut shell version is the BLM was siding with the Eco-Nazi groups regarding the grazing rights of the live stock owners and the Sheriff would have none of that. They still had their powers on BLM land but for any off BLM property LE action they had to call for a Deputy Sheriff to come handle it.

A few years ago, before he retired, he reinstated their powers with very strict guidelines of how they needed to conduct themselves or they would again lose their LE/arrest powers. The man had some balls and got calls from WDC mucks about it but he stood his ground.
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Old 05-01-2013, 9:44 PM
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Wow, nice going CA DOJ . Wonderful job! You got the people of California to hate you like a pile of turd. Now the Feds too.
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Old 05-02-2013, 12:15 AM
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Yeah, does that make anyone feel safer that FLEO's can't buy those dangerous off roster guns that have not met CA's stringent standards?
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Old 05-02-2013, 3:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoulStealer View Post
Still waiting for the DOJ letter?? As stated above, just purchased from ProForce no problem. (Off Roster)

Until an official letter/document is provided still calling FUD.
I wouldn't call it FUD. I just think its something that they have allowed to go on or were oblivious. Obviously their opinion on the matter has changed but the PC still says the same thing. Ca only wants to exempt Ca LE. Fed unions don't have the $tranglehold on Ca politicians like the $tate unions do. That's why they won't exempt FLEO's. FBI, USMS, ICE, USFS, BLM, NPS, etc. It doesn't matter. I am surprised they exempt us from the HSC.

I have never had an issue with PF either but I have always wondered if they had a true understanding of that law and how it related to Feds. One of my purchases (Walther PPS) I didn't even know was a "off roster" , "unsafe" handgun. Whoops. So far it seems pretty safe to me.

Last edited by StuckInTheP.R.O.Ca; 05-02-2013 at 3:52 AM..
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Old 05-02-2013, 3:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Notorious View Post
Yeah, does that make anyone feel safer that FLEO's can't buy those dangerous off roster guns that have not met CA's stringent standards?
The whole dam thing is nothing more than a shakedown of manufacturers and another hurdle that they can throw in front of prospective gun buyers. If there was any justice they would be indicted under RICO.

Last edited by StuckInTheP.R.O.Ca; 05-02-2013 at 3:47 AM..
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Old 05-02-2013, 3:43 AM
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Old 05-02-2013, 6:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StuckInTheP.R.O.Ca View Post
The whole dam thing is nothing more than a shakedown of manufacturers and another hurdle that they can throw in front of prospective gun buyers. If there was any justice they would be indicted under RICO.
The whole FFL transfer is also a shakedown since private sales are bound by law to find a FFL to conduct it, which inconveniences everyone since there aren't that many in L.A. which is conveniently located for everyone... but then they screwed them too by limiting their fee to ten bucks... so we all get screwed... along with the waiting period, which makes us all waste time and gas to drive back, and also limits us to only local purchases, unless we want to pay for shipping, which also incurs more inconvenience and huge expenses since there is no limit on that... CA just makes it as tough as possible. Not sure if it is motivated by hate of guns or love of bureaucracy or both.
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Old 05-12-2013, 7:44 PM
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Default Feds no longer able to puchase non roster guns in CA?

What about pc 830.33? These are defined as peace officers in the state of California. Ive always wondered this if railroad cops were allowed to purchase off roster handguns since they do meet the requirements for a peace officer in California
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Old 05-18-2013, 1:47 PM
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What would happen if a fed leo in Ca purchased an off roster pistol back in 2012, but the pistol hasn't arrived at the FFLs yet?
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