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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #1  
Old 03-14-2013, 9:53 AM
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Default Choosing between PTR91 and DSA FAL

Well I was able to track down the rifles. Now to make a decision on which semi-auto .308 to get??

I have read reviews of both, but since I have no first hand experience with either, I turn to you guys!!

PTR91-SC
It's cheaper than the DSA FAL. Seems to be a very reliable clone and good build quality from PTR. Will supposedly function in dustier environments better than a FAL. But picky on ammo being new manufacture and not south african surplus.
Bolt does not lock back on last round. Ergonomics are not that great.

FAL
Supposedly great ergonomics. Bolt locks back. Softer shooting than the PTR91? Not as picky with ammo. DSA also has a reputation for making a great quality rifle.

So which should I go with? My utmost criteria is always quality and reliability!!! Thanks.

Last edited by neomedic; 03-14-2013 at 9:55 AM..
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  #2  
Old 03-14-2013, 9:55 AM
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I like the PTR myself, I almost bought a PTR. Ended up with a .308 AR platform instead
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Old 03-14-2013, 10:13 AM
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I think the consensus on a .308/7.62x51 gun is that Metric FAL is your best bet. I have an Entreprise FAL, but DSA has a better reputation, but is more expensive. That being said, I'm local to Entreprise, and those guys are good dudes and have taken good care of me. DSA also has a longer backorder than Entreprise.

That being said, I think I'm going to get a M1A to hedge my bets... just in case.

From what I've read, PTRs are fine guns, but they lack the aftermarket parts that are available for both the FAL and M1A.
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Old 03-14-2013, 11:05 AM
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Despite the external visual similarities, totally different rifles

FAL is gas piston

PTR is roller blowback (hence stronger recoil)

More FAL accessories, but PTR (G3 mags are cheaper) you used to be able to get G3 mags for $1
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Old 03-14-2013, 11:08 AM
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Is there a better system in terms of reliability and reduced FTF and FTE?

Gas piston or roller blow back? Never shot a roller blow back and only a few shots on a gas piston AR that belonged to a friend of mine.
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Old 03-14-2013, 11:15 AM
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Having shot a Cetme and owning a FAL, all I can say it is equating it to which of your kids you love more. They both are great battle rifles and it comes down to personal preference.
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Old 03-14-2013, 1:40 PM
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I will throw something else into your mix, J&G has police trade in M1A Bush rifles for sale (18" barrel/no need for BB).
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Old 03-14-2013, 2:33 PM
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I have both and my personal preference is the FAL is a better rifle. Dunno about the fal not performing in a dirty or dusty envornment... Look up ol' dirty... prime example of the fall's reliability. PTR/G3 is pickier with ammo due to the lack of a gas system. That will always be a given... I haven't had an issue with mine but I typically run hotter surplus .308. My thinking is that you may not always have a choice as to what .308 you get to run. You will always be subject to shortages in the market or your wallet. If you do plan to reload, the FAL is easier on the brass. You can get a buffer for the PTR that does help quite a bit though... Since you seem on the fence, try to pick them both up and see what suits you best.
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Old 03-14-2013, 4:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve_In_29 View Post
I will throw something else into your mix, J&G has police trade in M1A Bush rifles for sale (18" barrel/no need for BB).
This is a big point IMHO why you should consider a 3rd option i.e the M1A.
You can use those 20 rd mags you were smart enough to stash away in 1999 and no need for that ridiculous bullet button.
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Old 03-14-2013, 4:14 PM
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Get both. It's bound to happen sooner or later anyways.
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Old 03-14-2013, 4:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve_In_29 View Post
I will throw something else into your mix, J&G has police trade in M1A Bush rifles for sale (18" barrel/no need for BB).
I wonder who those belonged to? DFG?
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Originally Posted by GW View Post
This is a big point IMHO why you should consider a 3rd option i.e the M1A.
You can use those 20 rd mags you were smart enough to stash away in 1999 and no need for that ridiculous bullet button.
right. no mag lock nonsense is a big plus. on top of that, I dont think people are going as bat-**** crazy over M1A mags like they are with AR & AK mag
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Old 03-14-2013, 4:27 PM
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Get both. It's bound to happen sooner or later anyways.
This is what happened to me.
Buy both if you can.


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Old 03-14-2013, 5:22 PM
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I enjoy owning both. Good luck with your search. Wish I had an M1A as well!



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Old 03-14-2013, 6:07 PM
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I like the FAL more but both are worth owning, I've always wanted a PTR set up to look like the one the dorky guy had in the movie Sniper.

The 308 AR rifles out there are superior to everything though, especially if you can spend the money for an LMT, GAP, OBR etc. But then you're talking 3k...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve_In_29 View Post
I will throw something else into your mix, J&G has police trade in M1A Bush rifles for sale (18" barrel/no need for BB).
Last I checked they were 1800, you'd have to be desperate to pay that much for a beat up scout m1a.
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Old 03-14-2013, 6:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Hoop View Post
I like the FAL more but both are worth owning, I've always wanted a PTR set up to look like the one the dorky guy had in the movie Sniper.

The 308 AR rifles out there are superior to everything though, especially if you can spend the money for an LMT, GAP, OBR etc. But then you're talking 3k...



Last I checked they were 1800, you'd have to be desperate to pay that much for a beat up scout m1a.
I would venture that like most police weapons they will have plenty of handling marks but will be pretty much new mechanically. How often do you think a patrolman would have pulled this out and actually used it? Even if they did it's not like they were in months long pitched fighting with tens of thousands of rounds expended.

Why buy it? Because you can buy a LOT of ammo/mags for the $1200 +tax that you would save vice buying the AR platforms. Especially since those $3K rifles you mention are now selling for $4-6K and a new M1A is in the 2500/3000 dollar range. This is available NOW, without the need for a ridiculous BB and lets see someone try to quickly buttstroke anyone with an AR. In today's climate the price is not really out of line.

I realize that some people feel the need to be the first to break a guns cherry but even a lot of the FAL/PTRs are made with surplus parts and aren't 100% new either. Heck my recently purchased "new" PTR91GI has used German Army furniture with a crack in the forearm.
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Old 03-14-2013, 6:56 PM
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Originally Posted by neomedic View Post
Is there a better system in terms of reliability and reduced FTF and FTE?

Gas piston or roller blow back? Never shot a roller blow back and only a few shots on a gas piston AR that belonged to a friend of mine.
1) In terms of reliability, I have to give a slight nod to the G3 system although I am more of a FAL man. The one G3-style rifle that I owned was a HK91. It was a really rugged SOB and dare I say it, it's as tough and reliable as the AK, but more accurate. If regards to PTR, I'd go with the GI model as you can feed both surplus and commercials due to the barrel fluting.

2) Gas Piston or Roller blow back? Whatever feels better for you. Also, in my experience, an out-of-the-box G3 style rifle has more perceived recoil than an out-of-the-box FAL, but if you replace the recoil buffer with a heavy buffer as well as use a muzzle brake, the recoil gets milder.

My preference for the FAL doesn't have much to do with either question. My preference boiled down to ergonomics, ease of operations and parts availability.

In regards to DSA vs PTR for me, if it's buying an entire rifle, I'd get the PTR GI model.
If it's building a rifle, I buy a DSA stripped FAL receiver, at least 6 more U.S. made 922(r) compliant parts and either Steyr or Imbel parts kits.
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Old 03-14-2013, 9:25 PM
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Is it only the GI version that has barrel fluting so that it can take on surplus ammo?

According to PTR website:
The GI model has 18” match grade, H&K profile, tapered barrel.
The SC (Scout Carbine) model has 16” match grade, fluted, bull barrel.

Does that make a difference?

Also I talked to PTR and they said all rifles with serial numbers after AW8000 have the reworked chamber specs back to the "original" specs so that can shoot surplus ammo. Something about correctly fluted barrels and fixed trunnion cracking issues? Any truth or more info on this???

Thanks
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Old 03-14-2013, 9:50 PM
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Originally Posted by neomedic View Post
Is it only the GI version that has barrel fluting so that it can take on surplus ammo?

According to PTR website:
The GI model has 18” match grade, H&K profile, tapered barrel.
The SC (Scout Carbine) model has 16” match grade, fluted, bull barrel.

Does that make a difference?

Also I talked to PTR and they said all rifles with serial numbers after AW8000 have the reworked chamber specs back to the "original" specs so that can shoot surplus ammo. Something about correctly fluted barrels and fixed trunnion cracking issues? Any truth or more info on this???

Thanks
Maybe my information is out of date as I haven't owned any G3 type rifles for past 13 years (the HK91 is the only that I owned) and didn't exactly look at the specs for the new ones. Possibly the new PTR rifles got corrected to be able to shoot surplus ammo, but I can't confirm.

Another thing I haven't mentioned in regards to the PTR GI is that it's possibly the most affordable PTR model.
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Old 03-14-2013, 9:57 PM
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From what I have read PTR tightened up the specs on their chambers to improve the accuracy but this ran into problems with tar based sealants on a lot of surplus ammo. With the PROPER ammo though they did indeed shoot tighter groups and still functioned 100%.

They went back to looser chambers on the GI model specifically to allow for the use of any ammo but I think their other models still retain the tighter chambers.
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Old 03-15-2013, 5:29 AM
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Originally Posted by BHPFan View Post
1)...If it's building a rifle, I buy a DSA stripped FAL receiver, at least 6 more U.S. made 922(r) compliant parts and either Steyr or Imbel parts kits.
6 US parts for a naked barrel, 7 if you're using a muzzle device.

-hanko
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Old 03-15-2013, 1:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve_In_29 View Post
I would venture that like most police weapons they will have plenty of handling marks but will be pretty much new mechanically. How often do you think a patrolman would have pulled this out and actually used it? Even if they did it's not like they were in months long pitched fighting with tens of thousands of rounds expended.

Why buy it? Because you can buy a LOT of ammo/mags for the $1200 +tax that you would save vice buying the AR platforms. Especially since those $3K rifles you mention are now selling for $4-6K and a new M1A is in the 2500/3000 dollar range. This is available NOW, without the need for a ridiculous BB and lets see someone try to quickly buttstroke anyone with an AR. In today's climate the price is not really out of line.

I realize that some people feel the need to be the first to break a guns cherry but even a lot of the FAL/PTRs are made with surplus parts and aren't 100% new either. Heck my recently purchased "new" PTR91GI has used German Army furniture with a crack in the forearm.
LOL Well said! yes those M1A's may have some dings but probably VERY low round counts.
I have an FAL and a PTR-91 and while they are both good rifles I still prefer my M1A's.-And I would still prefer them even without the bullet button issue.
For my money its the best.
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Old 03-15-2013, 1:30 PM
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6 US parts for a naked barrel, 7 if you're using a muzzle device.

-hanko
You are correct hanko. I always include muzzle device in my parts count as most barrels from FAL parts kits are threaded and it's my personal preference to put a muzzle device (Fake FH, combo device or muzzle brake) in my FAL builds as I like the cosmetic looks better.
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Old 03-15-2013, 1:58 PM
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I have owed g3 and m1a platform rifles since 1988, no expert but they are both great, got into FALs back in 97. All three are great. If I had to make a choice it would be a really hard decision but I would keep all of them. Well that did not help. I would suggest you get to handle them and see what one you like better. IMO recoil is not an issue, at least not for me. The g3 is the least ergo of the three. I have never had a malfunction in the m1a. Had a couple in the other two but it was ammo related. I think from a pure shooters rifle I shoot better with the m1a, better sights. The FAL is of course the right arm of the free world. Trust me you can't go wrong with any of them, but you should own one of each ; )

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Old 03-15-2013, 2:06 PM
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What do you plan to do with the rifle?

"Utmost quality and reliability" I've seen pictures of cracked DSA bolts. Quality?

I owned a FAL - DSA receiver, folding stock and 16" barrel with the short gas system. Switched it out for a fixed stock and 18" barrel. Much more comfortable to shoot.

If I could go back in time, I'd make myself get an M1A because I'm more competition/long range focused. But if you want the ultimo SHTF rifle, a FAL is a good choice. Though I've heard the G3 is more accurate.
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Old 03-15-2013, 2:43 PM
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I have always wanted a semi-auto 7.62 NATO rifle mostly just to fill that niche since I don't have any rifles that uses that caliber. And I've been holding off for the longest time, but the current political climate pushed me over the fence to finally get one.

I will mostly use it to punch paper and get better at shooting longer distances (hopefully out to 300+ yards). With that said, I'm not looking for a sniper rifle type accuracy, just something that can get 2 MOA or better when shooting out pass 150 yards.

It will mostly be a range gun and paper puncher, but it's good to know that in the highly unlikely SHTF scenario, it can be called upon for that role as well. Thus I would like it to have a good track record for not breaking down and not too picky on ammo. However, I do have other platforms for SHTF type situation such as the AR.

Looks like either choice will be ok since the PTR91 and DSA FAL both have a good reputation of being reliable and many people who are happy with their rifle. And hopefully with the newer PTR91s, they have gone back to original specs and can chew up a wider range of ammo.

Anyone have a link of where I can buy some HK91/G3 magazine re-build kits that people keep saying can be had as cheap as $5-8 each?

Thanks.
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Old 03-15-2013, 3:03 PM
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Anyone have a link of where I can buy some HK91/G3 magazine re-build kits that people keep saying can be had as cheap as $5-8 each?

Thanks.
Try these guys

https://www.exilemachine.net/shop/

If they won't order for you, buy them on gunbroker or whatever and have it shipped there.

Good luck with your G3 copy, let us know how she shoots.
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Old 03-15-2013, 4:36 PM
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What is a good price for a new PTR91-SC in the current environment??

And what was the "regular" price before this buying spree? Thanks.

I'm leaning towards a the cheaper option of the PTR right now because it's cheaper and I want to get a SCAR 17 when everything dies down and price is back to normal and inventory starts to build up again. Rather get it from a store for under 3K than pay 4.5K now =)

Last edited by neomedic; 03-15-2013 at 4:47 PM..
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Old 03-15-2013, 10:15 PM
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I didn't want to post in this thread but there is so much garbage information above I couldn't help it.

All current PTR's have HK spec chambers & will feed anything. PTR's made between AW3000 & AW8000 had the tight chambers & were picky with ammo. The previous & newer models all run with AK reliability, regardless of model & that includes African tar sealed ammo. Accuracy is exceptional for a 60 year old battle rifle design.

The brass is reloadable. I know this because I reload mine.

Ergonomics are subjective to the shooter. Half the people I've run into that run thier mouth about the HK platform have never held one, shot one, or even seen one in person. Just about everyone I know who shot my PTR ended up buying one for themselves.

Factory surplus mag are plentiful.

I'm not an AR-308 fan, but the FAL's & M1A's are reliable as well. Some builds are better than others as with anything.
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Old 03-15-2013, 10:30 PM
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I have an hkSR9T in tc configuration. It looks like my avatar, but that ones not mine. Mine has a psg1 stock, not the msg90 stock. It feeds ANYTHING. I have hit a manhole cover at 800 yards, 20 for 20 in about 30 seconds or so.

I also have a 16 inch enterprise receiver fal that I built from a South American imbel.

I also have an M1a scout squad.

None has ever jammed. None seems to recoil more or less than the others. I'd feel fine fielding any of the 3. Mine are so different that I can't recommend one over the others, but you should find some examples and shoot them. Buy what you like.
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  #30  
Old 04-27-2013, 12:39 PM
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I like the PTR better than my STG FAL. For me, it is more ergonomic than the FAL. Im a big guy, being 6'5", I imagine that has something to do with how the rifle feels. The PTR only has given me problems when I run surplus thru it since I have a serial number in the range of the tight chamber flutes, which resulted in me reloading .308. The PTR is more accurate than my FAL. I also like the design and look of the rifle over the FAL.

I like to change out the original wood I refinished to give the rifle a new look every so often



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Old 07-06-2013, 5:22 PM
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I am very interested in aquiring one or both of these rifles, it looks like 1,200 to 1400 is about what they are going for, is this accurate?
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Old 07-06-2013, 6:21 PM
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I dont know about anybody else but the ptr 91 GI handguards burn up like a mother ****er. Gloves are def a must with this rifle if you plan on running it.
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Old 07-06-2013, 8:00 PM
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The wide handguards stay cool even under hard use. The skinny handguards are kind of throw-aways. And gloves? Really?
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Old 07-06-2013, 8:11 PM
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I prefer the fal
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Old 07-06-2013, 8:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Sig357 View Post
I enjoy owning both. Good luck with your search. Wish I had an M1A as well!



I would love to add both of those rifles to the Arsenal. They look bad-arse!

I love my M1A. I want a Scout or 18" next.
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Old 07-06-2013, 8:15 PM
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The wide handguards stay cool even under hard use. The skinny handguards are kind of throw-aways. And gloves? Really?
Yes really. My rifle was baking hot. I was using it without gloves at first but it eventually just got too damn hot that i had to throw some on. If youre gonna bench shoot it then theres no need for them but if you wanna run around and play rambo i would suggest it.
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Old 07-06-2013, 8:21 PM
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I'd never have thought one would need gloves because the handguard got too hot. Of course I've always trashed the skinnies right off the bat so I have no experience with them. I've been into the HK platform for 15+ years & never had this issue. Who knew?
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Old 07-06-2013, 8:28 PM
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I'd never have thought one would need gloves because the handguard got too hot. Of course I've always trashed the skinnies right off the bat so I have no experience with them. I've been into the HK platform for 15+ years & never had this issue. Who knew?

If those wide handguards stay cool then im gonna have to invest in some. I like to try all my stuff out before i upgrade anything. See what works and what doesnt. I love the look of the skinny handguards but theyre just not practical for me with how i run my rifle.
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Old 07-06-2013, 8:39 PM
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I imagine because of the additional airspace between the barrel & HG plus the width of the wide HG, it might solve your problem. They're not that expensive either at around $80. I also have one Knights Armament RAS tri-rail HG on one of my rigs with vents all around & it stays cool.

But hell, with surplus 308 running $1+ per round nowdays, I have a feeling none of us are going to be shooting Rambo style unless you have some deep stash from before this crapstorm.
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Old 07-06-2013, 8:51 PM
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Originally Posted by ir0nclash86 View Post
If those wide handguards stay cool then im gonna have to invest in some. I like to try all my stuff out before i upgrade anything. See what works and what doesnt. I love the look of the skinny handguards but theyre just not practical for me with how i run my rifle.
Get the wide handguard, you wont regret it. I've never used the thinner ones more by accident than design. I have the 93, 53, and 32 and have never needed gloves to rambo. Fired a friends FA 33 and it had the wide HG installed. No heat issues even after going through 4 40 rnd mags in less than 2 minutes...
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