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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #81  
Old 02-22-2013, 11:17 PM
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this thread _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _.
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  #82  
Old 02-23-2013, 6:28 AM
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Amazing this thread had not been locked or moved yet.
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  #83  
Old 02-23-2013, 6:42 AM
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Originally Posted by mossy View Post
guys it is completely legit there is no need for the fear or tin foil hats. i was called in for a follow up interview interview i even snapped a quick pic of the classy interview room just to show you it is safe. i cant talk about what happened or what questions were asked for obvious reasons, but i can tell you fun times were had promises were made and i will get a call in about a week. here is a pic of the interview room .


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The logistics of a militia trying to supply its self with ammo and parts for a variety of different rifles with all kinds of calibers is a nightmare. Can it be done, sure but it would not be pritty.
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  #84  
Old 02-23-2013, 7:37 AM
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Originally Posted by chillincody View Post
umm seems pretty dead on talking about militias ever wonder why all the cal militias meet and train in nevada ? BECAUSE ITS ILLEGAL WITHIN CA STATE LINES
I understand how anyone might come to the same conclusion as you, but you really have to read the code. Also, not all California militias meet and train in Nevada.

adrenaline is correct.

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Originally Posted by adrenaline View Post
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  #85  
Old 02-23-2013, 7:48 AM
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Originally Posted by rootuser View Post
The militia was meant to be a protection of the state I believe, not a private affair.

We have a legit militia here in California (seriously):

http://www.calguard.ca.gov/casmr/Pages/default.aspx
A militia is not a creature of the state, tho the state can call on its use.
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  #86  
Old 02-23-2013, 8:12 AM
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Originally Posted by JDoe View Post
I understand how anyone might come to the same conclusion as you, but you really have to read the code. Also, not all California militias meet and train in Nevada.

adrenaline is correct.
yep.

it's amazing how some people focus on portions, and gloss over others... If the code is read correctly (and in it's entirety) adrenaline is correct.

Some people focus on what they want to see and try to make their argument based on that.

Even upon first read, it was clear to me.
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  #87  
Old 02-23-2013, 8:28 AM
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Originally Posted by GREASY357 View Post
this thread _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _.
If Obama had a thread, it would look just like this one.
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  #88  
Old 02-23-2013, 8:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AceHound View Post
Taking applications for well regulated militia.

BLM target practice shoot with:

1) AR-15, M16 rifle with 16", 20", 22", or 24" barrel
2) Side-arm pistol

PM picture of AR, brief introduction including age, profession, and reason for interest in forming well regulated militia.

Los Angeles area
I have an 18" barrel. I guess I can't come.
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  #89  
Old 02-23-2013, 8:55 AM
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Militia Act of 1903

Page.

1. Constitutional provisions relating to power of Congress to raise troops 5

2. Militia law of 1792 5

3. Militia laws of 1808 and 1820 5

4. Failure of the system 6

5. Worthlessness of militia , 6

6. Act of 1898 6

7. The Organized Militia as an asset in preparing war plans 7

8. Failure or refusal of troops to serve 7

9. Lack of physical fitness 8

10. Time for concentrating 9

11. Character of force assembled 9

12. Time this force may be held for service 10

13. How this force may be used 10

14. Wastefulness of the system 10

15. As cause for delay in raising a volunteer force 11

16. Number of Organized Militia and amount of training of those secured by the

call 11

17. The organizations of Organized Militia and training of personnel as an asset. 11

18. How present Organized Militia has improved 12


Good read and join the National Guard


http://archive.org/stream/militiaaso...trich_djvu.txt
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  #90  
Old 02-23-2013, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by WnP View Post
Militia Act of 1903
Okay, the way I read this (someone can correct me if I'm wrong) was it wasn't talking about the legality or illegal nature of militias. It just states the government's view of organized vs. the volunteer nature of militia.

What is interesting is the following:

U.S. Constitution - Article 1 Section 8 - Powers of Congress

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

--------------------------------------

I personally don't know why they want to disarm the nation. We (the unorganized militia) don't even care if they arm us. We can pay for our own arms. We just don't want them to take it away. You would think they would thank us for saving them a few bucks.
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  #91  
Old 02-23-2013, 1:01 PM
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Ha ha ha ha ha.
Good one.
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  #92  
Old 02-23-2013, 1:19 PM
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Originally Posted by adrenaline View Post
What's with all the stigma on militias on here. Isn't it constitutional?
Yes.....but!!! So are a lot of other things that are illegal in CA. You cannot legally form a group for the purpose of military training in CA.
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  #93  
Old 02-23-2013, 1:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adrenaline View Post
Okay, the way I read this (someone can correct me if I'm wrong) was it wasn't talking about the legality or illegal nature of militias. It just states the government's view of organized vs. the volunteer nature of militia.

What is interesting is the following:

U.S. Constitution - Article 1 Section 8 - Powers of Congress

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

--------------------------------------

I personally don't know why they want to disarm the nation. We (the unorganized militia) don't even care if they arm us. We can pay for our own arms. We just don't want them to take it away. You would think they would thank us for saving them a few bucks.
In a real situation where the state has to organize a militia other than the National Guard then the state will probably give you the weapons. The National Guard assembles under the 1903 Act to act as the new militia. George Washington even said his militia was pitiful because of lack of training. How are a bunch of guys, with different weapons going to be much of a force?

Look up the Whiskey Rebellion.

Last edited by WnP; 02-23-2013 at 1:25 PM..
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  #94  
Old 02-23-2013, 1:29 PM
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Originally Posted by phrogg111 View Post
I think the funniest part about people wanting to form militias is that they don't realize that any well-regulated militia that ever existed was never guaranteed any rights by the 2nd amendment.
Could you put that in English for me?
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  #95  
Old 02-23-2013, 1:37 PM
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Serious question: Do you have a link for the law that makes training "as a proper militia" a crime?
http://law.justia.com/codes/californ...pen/11460.html
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  #96  
Old 02-23-2013, 1:49 PM
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Why not just go directly to the National Guard which is the "well regulated militia"?
NOT!
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  #97  
Old 02-23-2013, 2:09 PM
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Yes.....but!!! So are a lot of other things that are illegal in CA. You cannot legally form a group for the purpose of military training in CA.
This thread is on the militia.
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  #98  
Old 02-23-2013, 2:11 PM
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Originally Posted by WnP View Post
In a real situation where the state has to organize a militia other than the National Guard then the state will probably give you the weapons. The National Guard assembles under the 1903 Act to act as the new militia. George Washington even said his militia was pitiful because of lack of training. How are a bunch of guys, with different weapons going to be much of a force?

Look up the Whiskey Rebellion.
Yup George Washington originally didn't have much faith in the militia. His quote would show that initial view of them.

"To place any dependence upon militia is assuredly resting upon a broken staff. Men just dragged from the tender scenes of domestic life, unaccustomed to the din of arms, totally unacquainted with every kind of makes them timid and ready to fly from their own shadows." - George Washington

It was doubt that he cast on the militia. Those were some of his initial observations about the militia (the British did not respect the militia and many times cast the same doubt). However, later on. Despite these misgivings by Continental Army commanders, militia, when used properly, repeatedly demonstrated their utility to the patriot cause. At Concord in 1775, militia, firing from the cover of the trees lining the road back to Boston, inflicted over 25% casualties on the retreating redcoats. In the desperate winter of 1776-1777, up to 12,000 militia soldiers from New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania and Delaware came to the relief of Washington’s Army, while other units remained in defensive postures in New York and Connecticut. Without the numbers contributed by local militia, the British would not have been forced to give back much of what they had earlier conquered in New Jersey. A few months later, in June of 1777, Washington was able to reinforce Northern New York while still holding the New Jersey Highlands due to the presence of local militia, demonstrating a flexibility of response that came from the dispersal of local militia units throughout the colonies.

Later on he would go on to make the following statement.

"A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government." - George Washington

Our founders would be in full support of militia training with arms and disciplining themselves so they were more organized than a rag-tag bunch of men with zero experience in any tactical warfare or firearms.
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Last edited by adrenaline; 02-23-2013 at 2:13 PM..
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  #99  
Old 02-23-2013, 2:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meplat View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDoe View Post
Serious question: Do you have a link for the law that makes training "as a proper militia" a crime?

http://law.justia.com/codes/californ...pen/11460.html
I understand how anyone might come to the same conclusion as you, but you really have to read the code.

adrenaline is correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by adrenaline View Post
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  #100  
Old 02-23-2013, 2:24 PM
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Originally Posted by AceHound View Post
Taking applications for well regulated militia.

BLM target practice shoot with:

1) AR-15, M16 rifle with 16", 20", 22", or 24" barrel
2) Side-arm pistol

PM picture of AR, brief introduction including age, profession, and reason for interest in forming well regulated militia.

Los Angeles area
Isn't this pretty much illegal?
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  #101  
Old 02-23-2013, 2:33 PM
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What!? No 18" bbl? and I was so.. Ah well
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  #102  
Old 02-23-2013, 2:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adrenaline View Post
Yup George Washington originally didn't have much faith in the militia. His quote would show that initial view of them.

"To place any dependence upon militia is assuredly resting upon a broken staff. Men just dragged from the tender scenes of domestic life, unaccustomed to the din of arms, totally unacquainted with every kind of makes them timid and ready to fly from their own shadows." - George Washington

It was doubt that he cast on the militia. Those were some of his initial observations about the militia (the British did not respect the militia and many times cast the same doubt). However, later on. Despite these misgivings by Continental Army commanders, militia, when used properly, repeatedly demonstrated their utility to the patriot cause. At Concord in 1775, militia, firing from the cover of the trees lining the road back to Boston, inflicted over 25% casualties on the retreating redcoats. In the desperate winter of 1776-1777, up to 12,000 militia soldiers from New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania and Delaware came to the relief of Washington’s Army, while other units remained in defensive postures in New York and Connecticut. Without the numbers contributed by local militia, the British would not have been forced to give back much of what they had earlier conquered in New Jersey. A few months later, in June of 1777, Washington was able to reinforce Northern New York while still holding the New Jersey Highlands due to the presence of local militia, demonstrating a flexibility of response that came from the dispersal of local militia units throughout the colonies.

Later on he would go on to make the following statement.

"A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government." - George Washington

Our founders would be in full support of militia training with arms and disciplining themselves so they were more organized than a rag-tag bunch of men with zero experience in any tactical warfare or firearms.
The militia during the revolutionary war didn't get better overnight. It took training by regular officers and enlisted men to bring it up to standard. If everything went perfect then congress would not have passed the subsequent Militia Acts.

What I am saying is that to think of any guy who has a gun can form a well trained militia is ridiculous. It takes regular training, fitness, etc. to become deadly. There are standards that have been laid out and the state takes from the unorganized militia to form a regular militia.
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  #103  
Old 02-23-2013, 2:40 PM
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If Obama had a thread, it would look just like this one.
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  #104  
Old 02-23-2013, 2:48 PM
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Originally Posted by WnP View Post
The militia during the revolutionary war didn't get better overnight. It took training by regular officers and enlisted men to bring it up to standard. If everything went perfect then congress would not have passed the subsequent Militia Acts.

What I am saying is that to think of any guy who has a gun can form a well trained militia is ridiculous. It takes regular training, fitness, etc. to become deadly. There are standards that have been laid out and the state takes from the unorganized militia to form a regular militia.
So the state has a monopoly on regular training, fitness, etc.? Are "we the people" unable of such excellence unless it is government run?
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  #105  
Old 02-23-2013, 2:56 PM
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It looks to me the state has a good monopoly on training, ask the Marines, Army, Air Force and Navy.

Or ask Chris Dorner.

The people are the government. We are armed to protect the State and if you want to change that then go through the legal means.
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Old 02-23-2013, 4:33 PM
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Originally Posted by adrenaline View Post
Later on he would go on to make the following statement.

"A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government." - George Washington
Except that he didn't say that. He actually said, "A free people ought not only to be armed but disciplined; to which end a uniform and well digested plan is requisite: And their safety and interest require that they should promote such manufactories, as tend to render them independent on others, for essential, particularly for military supplies.

Source: http://guncite.com/gc2ndbog.html
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Old 02-23-2013, 5:03 PM
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Except that he didn't say that. He actually said, "A free people ought not only to be armed but disciplined; to which end a uniform and well digested plan is requisite: And their safety and interest require that they should promote such manufactories, as tend to render them independent on others, for essential, particularly for military supplies.

Source: http://guncite.com/gc2ndbog.html
And where is it mentioned that it was the sole duty of the state or federal governments to arm and discipline this "free people"?
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  #108  
Old 02-23-2013, 5:57 PM
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The idea is to have well disciplined and armed Americans in City and State.

This way foreign countries wouldn't consider an invasion, nor would a government attempt to disarm the citizens, or pass unconstitutional laws.

It's like in WWII, the Japanese arms considered invading the U.S. with foot soldiers- one of their Military leaders said "You cannot invade the US, there would be a rifle behind every blade of grass."
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Old 02-23-2013, 6:00 PM
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Originally Posted by JDoe View Post
This thread is on the militia.
Are you saying that a militia is not a group formed for the purpose of military training?
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  #110  
Old 02-23-2013, 6:19 PM
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Lol @ this ridiculous thread,
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  #111  
Old 02-23-2013, 6:20 PM
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Are you saying that a militia is not a group formed for the purpose of military training?
In California's PC code, this is not an issue until that organization's goal is civil disorder.
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Old 02-23-2013, 6:22 PM
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The idea is to have well disciplined and armed Americans in City and State.

This way foreign countries wouldn't consider an invasion, nor would a government attempt to disarm the citizens, or pass unconstitutional laws.

It's like in WWII, the Japanese arms considered invading the U.S. with foot soldiers- one of their Military leaders said "You cannot invade the US, there would be a rifle behind every blade of grass."
No one will invade the USA. They will want to collect all the money we owe them first before they come kicking the door down...........
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  #113  
Old 02-23-2013, 7:47 PM
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Originally Posted by mossy View Post
No one will invade the USA. They will want to collect all the money we owe them first before they come kicking the door down...........
What does Tony Soprano do when his Client's start defaulting on his loans? He sends the goons to collect.
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Old 02-23-2013, 7:48 PM
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In California's PC code, this is not an issue until that organization's goal is civil disorder.
precisely!!! It (PC) has been posted more than once in this thread and people keep misinterpreting (or completely glossing over) what it says. And it's very blatantly stated - it's hard to miss... I'm not sure why so many in this thread don't get it.
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We're screwed. The left was fooled by Obama and the right is being fooled by Trump.
I'm outa here!!! Less than two week countdown - See Ya CA (you slimeball of a state)... Good luck CGN Brothers
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Old 02-23-2013, 7:52 PM
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Originally Posted by mossy View Post
No one will invade the USA. They will want to collect all the money we owe them first before they come kicking the door down...........
we don't owe Mexico any money - and they are invading (illegally entering)... they aren't even kicking the door down - it's wide open. The aftermath is having a huge negative impact.

Other countries don't need guns to ruin us.
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We're screwed. The left was fooled by Obama and the right is being fooled by Trump.
I'm outa here!!! Less than two week countdown - See Ya CA (you slimeball of a state)... Good luck CGN Brothers
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  #116  
Old 02-23-2013, 7:56 PM
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OK, let's get quite real. It doesn't matter just what the code reads. What matters is how the FBI, the state police, the DA, the courts, and the juries think it should read and how they will interpret the code and the case law.

Suffice it to say that forming a militia and training as a militia is going to be considered a very bad and very illegal thing if you don't have some sort of favored status in the state. We don't have such favored status.

I would be intrigued, however, if someone explored the legality of simply organizing the unorganized militia and training it. Not sure you could do it, but I wonder. . .
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Old 02-23-2013, 7:58 PM
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And where is it mentioned that it was the sole duty of the state or federal governments to arm and discipline this "free people"?
That wasn't my point. My point was you ought not to employ bogus quotes.
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  #118  
Old 02-23-2013, 8:00 PM
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The code also doesn't specify that we would have to physically join. Aren't we joining here to train each other how to use our firearms.

We aren't doing it to commit civil unrest. That is, unless the general public decides to no longer live under the founding principles of this republic.
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Old 02-23-2013, 8:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Ieyasu View Post
That wasn't my point. My point was you ought not to employ bogus quotes.
Got it. I found it somewhere and re-used it.
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  #120  
Old 02-23-2013, 8:40 PM
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All I know is the CGF lawyers that are on here have made it clear that the PC is talkining about militias in CA that arent part of the state or federal goverment that is enough for me to not wanna touch it with a 10 fI so if you think your reading the PC right then please join a millita and be a test case .....
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