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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 02-21-2013, 9:33 PM
RugerFan777 RugerFan777 is offline
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Default Del Norte Sheriff Dean Wilson, PRO PRO Gun

Sheriff Dean Wilson "Same stance I have always taken. I will defend the rights of the citizens of Del Norte County to "keep and bear arms". I will enforce no law that violates the 2nd Amendment and I will not allow other agencies to come into our community and do so."

WOW, some of other cal gunners need to move up here!
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Old 02-21-2013, 9:36 PM
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<< Humboldt county. Same opinion here. As Mendocino and Siskyou, as well.

Probably moving to Del Norte after partner finishes school. He's from Crescent City and his folks still live there.
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Old 02-21-2013, 9:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Sakiri View Post
<< Humboldt county. Same opinion here. As Mendocino and Siskyou, as well.

Probably moving to Del Norte after partner finishes school. He's from Crescent City and his folks still live there.
I believe he also means that he won't enforce CA Guns Laws as well. That's a extra step I am not sure the others have taken.
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Old 02-22-2013, 9:51 AM
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I lived in Crescent City for about 10 years.
I had a LTC when Mike Ross was Sheriff.
Take your fishing gear and your rain gear. Steelhead fishing in the Smith River and Salmon and bottom fish in the Ocean.
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Old 02-22-2013, 10:22 AM
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My oldest daughter and her husband have lived there since Pelican Bay Prison opened. The son-in-Law is a CO there. I like the place alot and would reccommend it for a retirement community...... if you don't mind a gazillion inches of rain each year. But as already stated, there is some awesome fishing in the area and some great wooded areas (ie: BLM) to in. Sounds like the sheriff is a good guy too.
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Old 02-22-2013, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Jerry1949 View Post
My oldest daughter and her husband have lived there since Pelican Bay Prison opened. The son-in-Law is a CO there. I like the place alot and would reccommend it for a retirement community...... if you don't mind a gazillion inches of rain each year. But as already stated, there is some awesome fishing in the area and some great wooded areas (ie: BLM) to in. Sounds like the sheriff is a good guy too.
Slammer by the Sea.

Last edited by Rossi357; 02-22-2013 at 11:29 AM..
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  #7  
Old 02-22-2013, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by RugerFan777 View Post
Sheriff Dean Wilson "Same stance I have always taken. I will defend the rights of the citizens of Del Norte County to "keep and bear arms". I will enforce no law that violates the 2nd Amendment and I will not allow other agencies to come into our community and do so."

WOW, some of other cal gunners need to move up here!
Does the sheriff issue for self defense a carry license? Does he follow state law on carry licenses?
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  #8  
Old 02-22-2013, 3:06 PM
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If he believes and totally supports the second Amendment then everyone in the county should be able to carry without permission from him...
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Old 02-22-2013, 4:36 PM
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Originally Posted by MB3 View Post
If he believes and totally supports the second Amendment then everyone in the county should be able to carry without permission from him...
Because of our federal system of government, he's going to have a much harder time opposing state law than he would opposing federal law.
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  #10  
Old 02-22-2013, 5:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gray Peterson View Post
Does the sheriff issue for self defense a carry license? Does he follow state law on carry licenses?
Uhm, no... not totally.

http://www.co.del-norte.ca.us/depart...-ccw-prodedure (Link is how they spelled it... derp.)

Quote:
3.The applicant must complete the statewide standard application form for a CCW license. The cost of the application is $10.00. The total Sheriff fees for a CCW are $140.00.
If I remember correctly, DOJ gets $95.00. So the local fee would be $45.00, not $10.00. If the S/O were following state law, they would be collecting 20% of the local fee and the DOJ fee at the time the application was submitted- which would be $9.00. So what they should be asking for at the time of the application is $104.00 unless one has already previously applied with the S/O (in that case, it would only be the $9).

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4.The applicant must return the completed application form to the Sheriff's Department and be fingerprinted. We do fingerprints on Tuesday's and Friday's between the hours of 9:00 AM and 10:00 AM. The balance of $130.00 is due at this time.
Yeah, that's also wrong too. Applicants only pay the balance due upon issuance of a licence to carry. All that is due upon application is the local fee and the DOJ fee. $104--- not $130 or $140. And that one hour on two days a week is verrry accomodating.

Quote:
5.You will need to provide proof of ownership for each weapon you plan to carry.
That is a no. All one needs to do is provide the application and portion of the fees that are due at the time of application. Asking someone for documentation to prove ownership of a firearm or requiring proof of residency or any other documentation is a violation of the law. While they will need to see the weapons you are listing on the license, the burden of proof of who owns the weapon is on the Sheriff. And how does one provide documentation that one owns a particular firearm anyway? Do they really expect applicants to pull up a reciept for a handgun they purchased 20 years ago?

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6.Once we have received a clearance from the "California Department of Justice", you will be notified by mail. At that time you will need to call the Sheriff's Office and set up an interview with the Sheriff. The number is 464-4191 ex 223.
Now this is funny. If the Sheriff is so pro-gun, why would it be necessary to interview an applicant if they have passed the DOJ background check and is not a prohibited person? This policy here is explicit evidence that the agency subscribes to discretionary issuance and not 'shall issue'. After an applicant has been shown not to be a current prohibited person, a shall issue Sheriff has nothing more to learn about an applicant to issue a license.

Quote:
7.If the Sheriff approves you for a CCW, you will need to complete an approved weapon qualification course. At this time there are two approved range masters: Ronald Mills (464-5483) and Roy Kelley (464-9413). There is a maximum of three (3) weapons.
The maximum of three weapons is unlawful.

Basically, this Sheriff fails to follow the law, which puts the order as follows;
  1. Apply with 20% local fee and $95 DOJ fee.
  2. Get fingerprinted.
  3. Pass background check and receive approval from Sheriff.
  4. Obtain your LTC (CCW) training and get certificate.
  5. Return with your listed firearms, certificate and thumbprint.
  6. Receive license.
  7. Pay balance due
.


Missing from this undetailed list is a timetable which the Sheriff must work within. Im guessing that is out the window too.
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  #11  
Old 02-23-2013, 1:55 AM
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I have lived in Del Norte County for over 30 years. Sheriff Wilson is a good man and a staunch supporter of the Second Amendment.

If every county in California had a sheriff like Dean, we would have a lot less to worry about from those anti-gun morons in Sacramento.

Now, if he could figure out a way to limit the amount of rain we get, he would be perfect.
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  #12  
Old 02-23-2013, 6:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Kavey View Post
I have lived in Del Norte County for over 30 years. Sheriff Wilson is a good man and a staunch supporter of the Second Amendment.

If every county in California had a sheriff like Dean, we would have a lot less to worry about from those anti-gun morons in Sacramento.

Now, if he could figure out a way to limit the amount of rain we get, he would be perfect.
Good. I'm glad you have had positive personal experience with your Sheriff. Now you can call him, and ask why his office does not comply with state law (SB610).

If he is as supportive of the second amendment as you and others claim, it should be no difficulty whatsoever for him to comply by reforming his policies to conform with the law.

The resources you can send him are here... http://www.calgunsfoundation.org/new...ts-update.html
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  #13  
Old 02-23-2013, 6:29 AM
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I've seen a lot of these sherrifs SAY they support the 2nd, blah blah, blah, but when you look into it...their interpretation of the 2nd and how they 'follow' the CCW laws in this GREAT (lol) state don't jive with their policies.
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  #14  
Old 02-23-2013, 10:40 AM
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I am a avid supporter of the 2nd amendment, but.......never mind.
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  #15  
Old 02-23-2013, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gray Peterson View Post
Does the sheriff issue for self defense a carry license? Does he follow state law on carry licenses?
Pretty much a shall issue county.
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  #16  
Old 02-23-2013, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by RugerFan777 View Post
Pretty much a shall issue county.
There are 58 'may issue' counties in California. To conclude that any of them, particularly one that does not follow state law, is 'pretty much' anything other than 'discretionary' is disingenuous. It is also unhelpful in identifying and addressing legitimate targets for reform.

The benefit to targeting smaller 'permissive' issuance agencies is two fold. First, small counties have small budgets - it takes less encouragement to get them to comply than say, Orange County, because they do not want to burn their revenue defending the indefensible. Second, 2A 'friendly' Sheriffs want to maintain their appearance of being pro-2A... If Sheriff Dean Wilson prefers to maintain policies that violate the law in the issuance of carry licenses, then he doesn't meet the threshold of being a pro-gun Sheriff.

What I dont understand in this thread is why people want to defend a public official that does not want to follow the law they are entrusted to administer. These same people would excoriate the President for signing executive orders to usurp power, but wont hold an officer of their county accountable for violating the rights of their neighbors.
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  #17  
Old 02-23-2013, 12:57 PM
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I absolutely agree with CitaDel.

Although some of these sheriffs may better than others

Their statements are self serving, grandstanding, and aggrandizement

They are politicians, whose primary concern is to get re-elected

And this is what they feel they need to say to accomplish this goal.

This subjective, discretionary, power needs to be taken from them, and "shall issue" become the edict from Sacramento.

Then they can perform their duties as they should be

Which is to manage their counties LE budgets.
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Old 02-23-2013, 1:28 PM
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I get it, you would think presumably under our 2A right, everyone should be able to just strap on a gun and go about their business...unfortunately, I think those days are gone...I think any form of armed citizenry in public is going to have some hoops to jump through...oh, and, lets not forget about forking over some $$$$
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Old 02-23-2013, 3:31 PM
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It sounds like "RugerFan777" also lives in Del Norte and knows Sheriff Wilson. You can believe his posts.

I also stand behind what I said.
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Old 02-23-2013, 5:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rossi357 View Post
I lived in Crescent City for about 10 years.
I had a LTC when Mike Ross was Sheriff.
Take your fishing gear and your rain gear. Steelhead fishing in the Smith River and Salmon and bottom fish in the Ocean.
And carry flood insurance.

Damned tsunamis.
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  #21  
Old 02-23-2013, 5:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CitaDeL View Post
There are 58 'may issue' counties in California. To conclude that any of them, particularly one that does not follow state law, is 'pretty much' anything other than 'discretionary' is disingenuous. It is also unhelpful in identifying and addressing legitimate targets for reform.

The benefit to targeting smaller 'permissive' issuance agencies is two fold. First, small counties have small budgets - it takes less encouragement to get them to comply than say, Orange County, because they do not want to burn their revenue defending the indefensible. Second, 2A 'friendly' Sheriffs want to maintain their appearance of being pro-2A... If Sheriff Dean Wilson prefers to maintain policies that violate the law in the issuance of carry licenses, then he doesn't meet the threshold of being a pro-gun Sheriff.

What I dont understand in this thread is why people want to defend a public official that does not want to follow the law they are entrusted to administer. These same people would excoriate the President for signing executive orders to usurp power, but wont hold an officer of their county accountable for violating the rights of their neighbors.
The fees are retarded to begin with, regardless of their procedure.

I can get a LTC in three different states that I used to live in for 25 bucks.

Here? Entirely too expensive.

And in this state, "might as well be shall issue" means they issue period. Which is more than I can say for other counties that you have better odds at getting hit by lightning in.
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Old 02-23-2013, 5:27 PM
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Guess I've always been lucky with the weather every time I've visited Crescent City ie the few times I've been there it's always been good. I like the area a lot. I don't suppose the sheriff's pro 2A stance includes nonresidents - the Peterson case against Denver was supposed to be the one that would bring that barrier down.
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Old 02-23-2013, 5:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccmc View Post
Guess I've always been lucky with the weather every time I've visited Crescent City ie the few times I've been there it's always been good. I like the area a lot. I don't suppose the sheriff's pro 2A stance includes nonresidents - the Peterson case against Denver was supposed to be the one that would bring that barrier down.
You can't get nonresident permits in California.

And the weather is usually hit or miss. Went out to point st. george and hit up the beaches one day. Was freezing cold, sun was out, but windy. Got back to the truck and had to hit my lenses with glass cleaner. The sea spray was ridiculous.

Another day I went out to the beaches to check out some of the tidal pools and it suddenly started raining sideways. Almost always overcast, and it does rain most of the year. Usually a steady light drizzling. Got used to it.

If I want sun and heat I just drive into Trinity county and watch the temp spike up.
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Old 02-23-2013, 5:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sakiri View Post
You can't get nonresident permits in California.
Precisely my point. Nonresidents have no way to legally carry in California as no sheriff will issue to nonresidents and California doesn't recognize permits from any other state.
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Old 02-23-2013, 5:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sakiri View Post
You can't get nonresident permits in California.

And the weather is usually hit or miss. Went out to point st. george and hit up the beaches one day. Was freezing cold, sun was out, but windy. Got back to the truck and had to hit my lenses with glass cleaner. The sea spray was ridiculous.

Another day I went out to the beaches to check out some of the tidal pools and it suddenly started raining sideways. Almost always overcast, and it does rain most of the year. Usually a steady light drizzling. Got used to it.

If I want sun and heat I just drive into Trinity county and watch the temp spike up.
I love living in Crescent City too. But, I have also been forced to acknowledge the following fact-of-life: ALL WINDOWS LEAK!
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Old 02-23-2013, 6:49 PM
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I looked it up, and I guess it does rain a lot in Crescent City. Average annual rainfall is just under 67 inches. That's about 15 inches more a year than what we get in my part of Florida! Highest temperature ever recorded was 93 in the early 1960s, lowest was 19 in 1990.
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Old 02-23-2013, 6:49 PM
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k on my way to del norte, taking my bullet buttons off when i get there! wish me luck! I expect a high five and way to go buddy if I come across a sheriff.
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Old 02-23-2013, 7:09 PM
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Quote:
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You can't get nonresident permits in California.
Yet.
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Old 02-23-2013, 7:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kavey View Post
It sounds like "RugerFan777" also lives in Del Norte and knows Sheriff Wilson. You can believe his posts.

I also stand behind what I said.
I do and have a CCW. The interview was easy. He said that he believes everyone has a right to carry at the interview pretty much. Though he does have to follow this bs CCW law, thus you must have a interview.
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Old 02-23-2013, 7:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccmc View Post
Precisely my point. Nonresidents have no way to legally carry in California as no sheriff will issue to nonresidents and California doesn't recognize permits from any other state.
Wilson would if he could. The law doesn't allow sheriff to give a CCW to a out of state'er, I believe Dean would if he had this leeway.
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Old 02-23-2013, 7:23 PM
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Originally Posted by ccmc View Post
I looked it up, and I guess it does rain a lot in Crescent City. Average annual rainfall is just under 67 inches. That's about 15 inches more a year than what we get in my part of Florida! Highest temperature ever recorded was 93 in the early 1960s, lowest was 19 in 1990.
Near 100 inches in Hiouchi and Fort Dick.
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  #32  
Old 02-23-2013, 8:43 PM
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Originally Posted by RugerFan777 View Post
I do and have a CCW. The interview was easy. He said that he believes everyone has a right to carry at the interview pretty much. Though he does have to follow this bs CCW law, thus you must have a interview.
I would be interested to see the citation of law that mandates an 'interview' to issue a license to carry... Anyone?

And if he must abide by that alleged 'law', why isn't he bound to abide by the law that says he can't require fees and training up front?
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Old 02-24-2013, 9:45 AM
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Originally Posted by CitaDeL View Post
I would be interested to see the citation of law that mandates an 'interview' to issue a license to carry... Anyone?

And if he must abide by that alleged 'law', why isn't he bound to abide by the law that says he can't require fees and training up front?
Simple, its called min compliance.
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Old 02-24-2013, 9:48 AM
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No, it's called unlawful and bull****.
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  #35  
Old 02-24-2013, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by RugerFan777 View Post
Simple, its called min compliance.
It doesnt rise to 'minimum' when there is no compliance.

I hope he's open to a dialogue on reform, because it will look better to his constituents if he doesnt get sued.
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Old 02-24-2013, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by wildhawker View Post
No, it's called unlawful and bull****.
You don't live here and don't know him then. Id have the same position if I were sheriff. Min compliance to get past the bs, then I don't give a **** what weapons you have, there all lawful under the second. I think that's where he stands.
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  #37  
Old 02-24-2013, 11:23 AM
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So has anyone familiar with the law contacted the sheriff about his illegal policies?

I'm thinking of asking him what laws violating the second amendment I don't have to worry about him enforcing, CA has a lot to choose from. Its easy to say you wont enforce unconstitutional laws when you aren't talking about any specific law.

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Originally Posted by CitaDeL View Post
That is a no. All one needs to do is provide the application and portion of the fees that are due at the time of application. Asking someone for documentation to prove ownership of a firearm or requiring proof of residency or any other documentation is a violation of the law. While they will need to see the weapons you are listing on the license, the burden of proof of who owns the weapon is on the Sheriff. And how does one provide documentation that one owns a particular firearm anyway? Do they really expect applicants to pull up a reciept for a handgun they purchased 20 years ago?
It says that on the website but no one ever asked for any documentation on my guns, in fact the only person who looked at them was the guy I took my class from. He recorded the serial numbers on the paper he gave me saying I passed the class and I dropped it off with my application. A couple weeks later I had my permit.

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Originally Posted by mag360 View Post
k on my way to del norte, taking my bullet buttons off when i get there! wish me luck! I expect a high five and way to go buddy if I come across a sheriff.
That made me lol.
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  #38  
Old 02-24-2013, 12:29 PM
ccmc ccmc is offline
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Originally Posted by RugerFan777 View Post
Wilson would if he could. The law doesn't allow sheriff to give a CCW to a out of state'er, I believe Dean would if he had this leeway.
Well the law does conflict with the 2A, and he did say he wouldn't enforce any laws that conflict with the 2A. I'm being a little facetious, but talk is cheap for any California sheriff, and a number of them have made similar statements. In my dream world they'd all get together and say current California law conflicts with the 2A, and they would be shall issue for everyone. However I understand political reality.
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Old 02-24-2013, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by RugerFan777 View Post
Near 100 inches in Hiouchi and Fort Dick.
That's a lotta rain. It's so hot here today that a typical Crescent City day sounds kind of refreshing. That much cold rain would probably wear on me after not too long though.
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Old 02-24-2013, 2:22 PM
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Rossi357 Rossi357 is offline
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That's a lotta rain. It's so hot here today that a typical Crescent City day sounds kind of refreshing. That much cold rain would probably wear on me after not too long though.
I've seen it drizzle rain off and on every day for 3 months there. I also saw snow on Castle Rock.
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